Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[TierShift]

You don't believe I thought I could read you like a book, saw I was wrong and went back to see where I went wrong?

I'm not too good to learn from mistakes, you know.

[shos]

That is nit something you do during the game, and not actually comment on the iso, especially not the way you did.

What dod you learn from it, then?

[TierShift]

Look, everything that I thought that should have made you town to me, was right in the start of that ISO post. I would look at those things and keep them in mind when playing with you again. It's really easy to see that you're town once I know that you're town, though, so I hope I'll be able to incorporate them when I have no idea about your alignment.

The main thing I learned was that manipulation is really something you don't do as town and definitely as scum. I think.

Anyway, you want my story or no?

[shos]

UNVOTE:

Speak up

[insanity018]

Votecount 3.9

Aneninen

(1): TierShift

No Lynch

(1): This Christmas

Not Voting

(4): Aneninen, Toon Fighter, shos, Alchemist21

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-31 11:00:00)

[TierShift]

I knew it prepare for longpost

[TierShift]

I have never been a huge fan of crumbing. There is a specific thing that makes me averse to crumbing lately.

Spoiler: micro 382

Replies in bold:

OMGUS,

Wasn't the first one to bring it up. Also entirely explained my reasoning later. (47)

Buddying(both tiershift and BBT),

Sure. I used a term in a meaningful context.

accusing of deflection,

Deflection is a buzzword now?

complaining about overposting, (like it's some sort of big issue)

Misrep. I wasn't complaining about overposting. I was explaining how posting at the same time didn't necessitate that the second poster hadn't seen the first's post.

and admits to becomeing quickly paranoid over one vote.

I was admitting to confirmation bias and backing off. BBT pressed me so I went full-out and explained my reasoning. After that, I moved on.

Scripten, What is "everything else?"

Look

a

t BBT's iso. His reads and cases make sense. What I don't

l

ike

i

s the way he pushes those reads, every si

ng

le ti

m

e, with fanatical z

e

al. It's massively scummy to me, but I've see

n

him do this when he is

t

own. It's actually very frus

t

rating, since it makes town-r

e

ading him difficult. I don't like the idea of policy lynche

s

. That said, I do certainly agree with you that his read flip on me was off-pu

t

ting.

I may have been caught up in confirmation bias over your alignment, Josh_B. I agree with your read on BBT and I'd like for him to respond to it.

BBT:

I'd like you to respond to Josh_B's points, please. It would help set my mind at ease.

UNVOTE: Josh_B
VOTE: BBT

Current developments are interesting, I can get behind a BBT vote.
I'm going to abstain from commenting for reasons that will be obvious.

VOTE: BBT

I am town.

You have outside communication in this game?

Nope, but Tiershift can read italics really well.

GJ Tiershift. Caught scum. Intent to hammer.

Here, I was scum. Scripten crumbed a reaction test on Josh_B, which I completely abused. I went along with it, Josh gave the wrong reaction and I rode it to his lynch.

Further in the game, I NEEDED to kill the cop. Look at the setup if you wanna, but basically, there was a 50% chance on a cop.

Spoiler:

This is the general consensus. I usually use spoilers to reduce game clutter. However this time, I wanted everything that I said about scripten to be in my Iso. I don't plan on going after him today. I want to get better reads on other players. At this point, I think vetrock is probably town. It was really tough to watch him replace my slot in Marvel and see him be so uncertain about Vezok. That game is over now, so :problem solved, problem staying solved. Marvel was a huge roller coaster for me that started back in April. I did a lot to be conf town, so it was disappointing to watch vettrock allow so much uncertainty to build up around the slot without ever addressing it.

I like seeing the responses from Asher.
I still think scripten is scummy.
I had strong feelings at the start of DP1 that BBT is town
Tiershift is in my town pile
ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.

Just to clarify; your town-read on Vettrock is based on meta, right?

Your reads list is strange. You had strong feelings I was town at start of D1, how about now? Has that changed?

You're town-reading everyone in the game except Scripten; who you're not going to pursue today. So, what exactly are you planning on doing for D2?

Also;

Vettrock and Josh_B

- Can you explain what made you so sure Wolfy was town? Also, given that you both thought he was town, why did neither of you try to defend him? You both just let the wagon and lynch happen whilst subtly stating you thought he was town.

I think the whole wagon on Wolfy may have been town. If there was scum on it, it's one of Tier or Asher; leaning Asher.

This was a crumb. BBT had been scumreading scripten before, or at least not townreading him. Scripten was also on the wagon, but he didn't mention him. BBT was cop, scripten his inno. I killed him that night. I won.

That is exactly why I don't crumb as town. Exactly this. Scum take advantage.
So no, I don't crumb obviously, I rather show my results by play, exactly what I have done. I do drop hints (which is rather the word I should have used for me not voting you while saying I normally would) to my results, but I don't outright crumb anymore. Scum take advantage.

I'm even going to fuck up my meta for this. I'm going to tell you something which will fuck up my scumgame. But eh, it's worth it. Winning towngames in exchange for improving your scumgame is worth it.
Here:
I do crumb as scum. I've won games because of it. Here's proof:

Spoiler: micro 283

Oh yeah I should read better.

Is Nat actually confirmed now? I think not, because it would suit the flavour really well if both who and nat were scum, being obvtown and all.
On the other hand, it would be very coincidental if both the mod and nat/who fake them being neighbours. And who's flip actually stated he was a neighbour, so I like to think of nat as conftown for the time being. Thoughts on this?)

Bert is town I think

Sakura is so town that I'd like to share a beer with him

Catboi null/townish
Amae I'm actually not too sure on will reread
TNE is scum let's kill it

VOTE: TNE
L-1
Why aren't you claiming? I ask of catboi not to claim before TNE does.

Full claim time

Next to a 2-shot joint giver I'm also a 1-shot delayed cop, flavor name is smoking a joint while being drunk.

So the cop part is basically choosing a drinking buddy.
Sakura was my drinking buddy.

Sakura is now conftown

I chose sakura night 1 because I thought either amae or tne would be lynched and out of the rest of the players sakura was my weakest townread at that moment.

I thought since smoking a joint while drunk is my mistake it would be wise not to do the drinking part and smoking weed part on the same night, so I wanted to give out my joint and since I still have no idea what it does, I gave it to someone without a night action left, I chose Bert.

I hope it makes sense, feel free to ask if not.
Bert, did my joint do anything on you?

I think this game ends by lynching Amae, I'm PoE-ing the shit outta him.

VOTE: amae koromo

There's no reason I would post such a hint instead of an actual crumb as scum. I know that works, at least. And don't come with the argument that I only thought of my fakeclaim later; that's ridiculous. You can clearly see in my behaviour at the start of day 2 that I suddenly get a townread on you.

I'm a boss at claiming as scum and throwing down crumbs early. You know why? BECAUSE SCUM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CRUMBS. As town, I crumb lightly and let my play speak, exactly as I did here.

You may disregard this all as WIFOM, but don't. You're above that. You do know that I'd actually have crumbed aas scum, because it gives much less trouble.

Please ask more if this is somewhat incoherent; I've been studying from 10 in the morning to now (10 in the evening).

But basically. I ROCK AS SCUM
AM I ROCKING? NO

[TierShift]

Should this not be enough I have a whole load of self-meta waiting for you shos honey

[shos]

LATER OH MY GAWD

[This Christmas]

concerns of tier/shos conspiracy have alleviated

[shos]

TC, just look at the balance, that should do to negate that option for you

[shos]

TS <3
we should be scum together sometime
or HYDRA OMFG

but until then
FFS I guess you're town :/

[shos]

(btw if you're bullshitting me I will staple your asscheeks together and make you try to shit bulls)

[Alchemist21]

(btw if you're bullshitting me I will staple your asscheeks together and make you try to shit bulls)

I sense Kuribo's hand at work.

[Toon Fighter]

Focus, guys. After my analysis I am more confused than ever. All I know is that TS is more likely town than scum, shos is 99% town, and between the other 3 scum is somewhere. Ranked by most likely to least:

anen
Alch
TC

But GAH! This game! I feel so invested right now. And the thought of guessing right today and having to suffer through two more weeks of this... OMG I CANT EVEN

[Toon Fighter]

*toDay I mean. And of course I want to guess right today, I just feel the pressure here...

[Alchemist21]

Focus, guys. After my analysis I am more confused than ever. All I know is that TS is more likely town than scum, shos is 99% town, and between the other 3 scum is somewhere. Ranked by most likely to least:

anen
Alch
TC

But GAH! This game! I feel so invested right now. And the thought of guessing right today and having to suffer through two more weeks of this... OMG I CANT EVEN

Why did Anen go from not even being in your lynch pool to being your top scum read?

[Alchemist21]

I have never been a huge fan of crumbing. There is a specific thing that makes me averse to crumbing lately.

Spoiler: micro 382

Replies in bold:

OMGUS,

Wasn't the first one to bring it up. Also entirely explained my reasoning later. (47)

Buddying(both tiershift and BBT),

Sure. I used a term in a meaningful context.

accusing of deflection,

Deflection is a buzzword now?

complaining about overposting, (like it's some sort of big issue)

Misrep. I wasn't complaining about overposting. I was explaining how posting at the same time didn't necessitate that the second poster hadn't seen the first's post.

and admits to becomeing quickly paranoid over one vote.

I was admitting to confirmation bias and backing off. BBT pressed me so I went full-out and explained my reasoning. After that, I moved on.

Scripten, What is "everything else?"

Look

a

t BBT's iso. His reads and cases make sense. What I don't

l

ike

i

s the way he pushes those reads, every si

ng

le ti

m

e, with fanatical z

e

al. It's massively scummy to me, but I've see

n

him do this when he is

t

own. It's actually very frus

t

rating, since it makes town-r

e

ading him difficult. I don't like the idea of policy lynche

s

. That said, I do certainly agree with you that his read flip on me was off-pu

t

ting.

I may have been caught up in confirmation bias over your alignment, Josh_B. I agree with your read on BBT and I'd like for him to respond to it.

BBT:

I'd like you to respond to Josh_B's points, please. It would help set my mind at ease.

UNVOTE: Josh_B
VOTE: BBT

Current developments are interesting, I can get behind a BBT vote.
I'm going to abstain from commenting for reasons that will be obvious.

VOTE: BBT

I am town.

You have outside communication in this game?

Nope, but Tiershift can read italics really well.

GJ Tiershift. Caught scum. Intent to hammer.

Here, I was scum. Scripten crumbed a reaction test on Josh_B, which I completely abused. I went along with it, Josh gave the wrong reaction and I rode it to his lynch.

Further in the game, I NEEDED to kill the cop. Look at the setup if you wanna, but basically, there was a 50% chance on a cop.

Spoiler:

This is the general consensus. I usually use spoilers to reduce game clutter. However this time, I wanted everything that I said about scripten to be in my Iso. I don't plan on going after him today. I want to get better reads on other players. At this point, I think vetrock is probably town. It was really tough to watch him replace my slot in Marvel and see him be so uncertain about Vezok. That game is over now, so :problem solved, problem staying solved. Marvel was a huge roller coaster for me that started back in April. I did a lot to be conf town, so it was disappointing to watch vettrock allow so much uncertainty to build up around the slot without ever addressing it.

I like seeing the responses from Asher.
I still think scripten is scummy.
I had strong feelings at the start of DP1 that BBT is town
Tiershift is in my town pile
ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.

Just to clarify; your town-read on Vettrock is based on meta, right?

Your reads list is strange. You had strong feelings I was town at start of D1, how about now? Has that changed?

You're town-reading everyone in the game except Scripten; who you're not going to pursue today. So, what exactly are you planning on doing for D2?

Also;

Vettrock and Josh_B

- Can you explain what made you so sure Wolfy was town? Also, given that you both thought he was town, why did neither of you try to defend him? You both just let the wagon and lynch happen whilst subtly stating you thought he was town.

I think the whole wagon on Wolfy may have been town. If there was scum on it, it's one of Tier or Asher; leaning Asher.

This was a crumb. BBT had been scumreading scripten before, or at least not townreading him. Scripten was also on the wagon, but he didn't mention him. BBT was cop, scripten his inno. I killed him that night. I won.

That is exactly why I don't crumb as town. Exactly this. Scum take advantage.
So no, I don't crumb obviously, I rather show my results by play, exactly what I have done. I do drop hints (which is rather the word I should have used for me not voting you while saying I normally would) to my results, but I don't outright crumb anymore. Scum take advantage.

I'm even going to fuck up my meta for this. I'm going to tell you something which will fuck up my scumgame. But eh, it's worth it. Winning towngames in exchange for improving your scumgame is worth it.
Here:
I do crumb as scum. I've won games because of it. Here's proof:

Spoiler: micro 283

Oh yeah I should read better.

Is Nat actually confirmed now? I think not, because it would suit the flavour really well if both who and nat were scum, being obvtown and all.
On the other hand, it would be very coincidental if both the mod and nat/who fake them being neighbours. And who's flip actually stated he was a neighbour, so I like to think of nat as conftown for the time being. Thoughts on this?)

Bert is town I think

Sakura is so town that I'd like to share a beer with him

Catboi null/townish
Amae I'm actually not too sure on will reread
TNE is scum let's kill it

VOTE: TNE
L-1
Why aren't you claiming? I ask of catboi not to claim before TNE does.

Full claim time

Next to a 2-shot joint giver I'm also a 1-shot delayed cop, flavor name is smoking a joint while being drunk.

So the cop part is basically choosing a drinking buddy.
Sakura was my drinking buddy.

Sakura is now conftown

I chose sakura night 1 because I thought either amae or tne would be lynched and out of the rest of the players sakura was my weakest townread at that moment.

I thought since smoking a joint while drunk is my mistake it would be wise not to do the drinking part and smoking weed part on the same night, so I wanted to give out my joint and since I still have no idea what it does, I gave it to someone without a night action left, I chose Bert.

I hope it makes sense, feel free to ask if not.
Bert, did my joint do anything on you?

I think this game ends by lynching Amae, I'm PoE-ing the shit outta him.

VOTE: amae koromo

There's no reason I would post such a hint instead of an actual crumb as scum. I know that works, at least. And don't come with the argument that I only thought of my fakeclaim later; that's ridiculous. You can clearly see in my behaviour at the start of day 2 that I suddenly get a townread on you.

I'm a boss at claiming as scum and throwing down crumbs early. You know why? BECAUSE SCUM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CRUMBS. As town, I crumb lightly and let my play speak, exactly as I did here.

You may disregard this all as WIFOM, but don't. You're above that. You do know that I'd actually have crumbed aas scum, because it gives much less trouble.

Please ask more if this is somewhat incoherent; I've been studying from 10 in the morning to now (10 in the evening).

But basically. I ROCK AS SCUM
AM I ROCKING? NO

I had to read 956 multiple times before I understood the difference TS was trying to show, but I think I get it now.

[Toon Fighter]

Why I think anen is a good lynch? Well, the fact that both shos and TS are supporting it, that the claim does not work well in the setup after my analysis this afternoon, my previous scum read on him came back, and, damn, am i not allowed to change my views? Also, have you looked at the way anen reacted to the (building of interest in the) wagon? It raised some scum-radar hairs in the back of my head. Mostly that. I'd rather support a popular lynch that I actually believe might be scum than a player where I am not so sure and has no popular force behind.

Finally, I excluded anen before because the claim looked plausible. But, when I look more into it, I just don't think it fits as well. How does a commuter interact with a voyeur, Gunsmith, 1-shot tracker? It just makes their roles useless. Plus with the RB and mafia? 1-shot commuter seems like a neutral to negative town utility in this setup. At it's best, turns odds to evens. At it's worst, ruins a Gunsmith's nad/or voyeur night's work, makes the tracker literally a VT. Finally, thinking like a scum, a two scum team whit both fakeclaiming VT would look odd. I think one of the scums would fakeclaim. And the most likely of the two (between TS and anen) is anen.

That's pretty much it for my case on anen. What do you think?

[Alchemist21]

I never said you weren't allowed to change your views, but I do want to see explanations for why those views change.

Why doesn't the claim fit in with the setup? You also called tracker a mostly-flavor role, so I don't get why you think that makes a commuter here so difficult to imagine. Yeah, it could be a negative utility role as town, but that doesn't make it a scum role. With a gunsmith, voyeur, and tracker I'd be more surprised if town DIDN'T have some form of negative utlility, and the 1-shot tracker is just as useless if it targets any VT anyway.

What did you dislike specifically about his reaction to the wagon?

I'll need to recheck what your original case on Anen, but I don't like that the first point you chose to give was that his lynch is supported by TS and Shos.

Finally, I will agree that scum usually split their claims between VT's and PR's, but that's not necessarily a hard-set rule. The question on my mind that makes me think Anen is telling the truth about his claim is why would he, as scum, claim 1-shot commuter and then not state if he's used it or not?

[shos]

Anen, gimme a scum gaMe of yours where you fakeclaimed please, will ya

TF im totally feeling yiu

[TierShift]

TS <3
we should be scum together sometime
or HYDRA OMFG

but until then
FFS I guess you're town :/

Ugh guess I gotta store the rest of my self-meta for another game then

concerns of tier/shos conspiracy have alleviated

So please elaborate on who IS scum. And by elaborate I mean actually do stuff. For real this time.

Alch I just feel TF is so obvtown but I really gotta deliver a full ISO read of him to you sometime.

[shos]

Has anen claimed yet if he used the commute already?

if no - please answer this question, and elaborate on when, and why.

[Toon Fighter]

Has anen claimed yet if he used the commute already?

if no - please answer this question, and elaborate on when, and why.

Agree, it's time for anen to fullclaim

[insanity018]

Bump