Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[ChannelDelibird]

Right. Whoever gets Baned can (and probably should) be protected.

What was your thought process here?

People who have their Sign made public by Baning are obvious targets for investigative abilities, which are only powerful if the scum are narrowing down by killing elsewhere. That was my thought process at the time; I'm reevaluating at the moment.

[Shadoweh]

You think Zar/Tammy is possible scum on scum? :V

Tammy

should

be the first person to tell you I'd be a fool

not

to consider it.

Do you have any reasons to suspect this based on reality rather then FUD paranoia?

[T S O]

I do think TSO is town. He's scumreading me because he cannot understand my posts.

...no, Titus, please don't humiliate yourself by saying things like this. If you want to be humiliated, I'll do it for free.

I'm getting scummy vibes from tammy. It might be jsut her excitement, but something is weird.

People should follow marquis and bane gg.

No idea where any of these thought processes are coming from.

I could have done that. Decided not to. Most of the stuff I've said again anyway. The only thing I haven't said again is that our team's strategy is support, so I'm going to be focused on working with my town reads.

Am I the only one who finds Bulbazak's thought process here bizarre as fuck?

Bulba: "oh I'm mad that I made a post and hito locked the thread"
GIF: "you should have used the Back button"
Bulba: "meh didn't want it anyway"

I'd be Baning you for that if it wasn't for...

Why did multiple people ask of I'm scum?
Are you trying to soflty push a mislynch on me or something?
I'm town.

Bane: vezokpiraka

I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.

Two gives double the protection on a person, extending the life of a successful protect.
A player, be it that person or an external benefactor, can claim it.

Or scum.

And this is something I'm beginning to feel repeatedly paranoid about,

especially

in regards to Choice 1 - that scum will either manufacture a situation where they don't use an Unmake and claim protection, or they go the other route and make everyone paranoid of that so that the net result of someone claiming truthfully about getting a message about being protected ends up being almost zero.

[T S O]

It occurs to me that rolling scum here would have been great for me - with all the big personalities, I could probably slip under the radar.

[ChannelDelibird]

Choice is obvious imo the only reason to submit two unmakes on one person is to pick different signs.

Fenchurch and I agree that this is more likely to come from a scum perspective than town (given that town have no idea what permutations might affect this).

[T S O]

I feel Gestalt kinda owe it to us to vomit the absolute shit into the thread through the conduit of ffery.

[ChannelDelibird]

While I'm relaying opinions from the Black Goo, CES argues that we should use the Bane on a player who is hard to read (vezok is his example). This is because it's harder to judge scumminess on Day 1 before we see how any flips go and it would allow us to use investigative abilities on them - meanwhile, if scum kill them, we don't lose somebody we were quickly townreading. By avoiding a Bane on the No.1 scummiest player, too, we avoid complicating their potential lynch on Major Day 1. Again, I'm pretty much sold on his argument, especially the last part - I think Baning people who we intend to lynch immediately is a waste, though acknowledging that that could change later depending on what future Banes involve.

UnBane: Titus
Bane: vezok

I might pick somebody else later but I'm pretty sure that I don't want to Bane Titus, whom I'm reading as town.

Also reading Tammy as probably town but I don't know the dynamics between her, Zar, Empire etc. well enough to say that I scumread Zar as an extension of townreading Tammy.

[T S O]

So, yeah. {Bulba, UT, vezok} are the Banes I support as it stands.

Tammy is kinda convincing too in regards to Zar, I guess? It just feels a little strange in places. She got mad when Empire made one non-insulting joke and although her case is backed by logic it's also backed to the hilt by emotion, and I'm not sure I trust emotional-Tammy that much to go there. Especially when those three are so enticing.

[T S O]

I'm null-scumreading Titus for a discrepancy in her posts I didn't feel she actually addressed. I think the handwave of "read my posts pls" was stupid, and I don't see it coming from town-Titus as easily as scum-Titus.

[T S O]

CDB, are the Black Goo nullreading vezok?

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB, are the Black Goo nullreading vezok?

CES is the only one to have mentioned vezok so far, in the context mentioned above. I just read the thread and didn't get any particular reaction to him but I did it while tabbing back and forth to look like I was working, mostly just focusing on direct mentions of my name, so I'll probably read again tomorrow in case there was anything that I missed.

[vezokpiraka]

I'm not really against my baning, but I would strongly prefer baning someone else. Everyone knowing my sign isn't exactly good.

[Zar]

@Zar, No. Refresh me.

Basically, by choosing two, it forces the scum to have to focus on the same person to get them killed. Unmake requires them to match the sign correctly to a player to kill them, right? So it forces them to stay away from potential protective targets unless they decide to pile all up.

In that sense

Choose: Two

Anyway.

I'm not sure about Zar, but he seems more tentative than I recall him in our previous game.

Also, I've mostly seen Tammy get it right when she develops strong interaction-based reads on day 1.

Actually if you look at that game you'd see I'm not particularly big on day one in general.

Also, I don't know how much experience you have with Tammy overall, but I come from the same board that she started playing in, and the attitude she's giving me is the reason I actually stopped playing games that had her in them or that I could deduce she would be potentially involved in (by means of not co-modding, or the game being alted). If you need specifics into what I'm talking about, you can research really old games, like Seacore's Law and Order, which I ended up replacing out of here. There are two other games in the public Westeros board (85.5 and 86). 85.5 in particular is altless, so if that thread it's still up its not hard to follow through. When we have played together though, Tammy hasn't really been able to read me correctly. So she resorting to use Empire as proxy to try to get a read on me seems something she would do.

And, tbh, I mean I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect me to relay Empire's (or Mina's and Regfan's) thoughts 100% perfectly when I don't have the entire context of their thought processes, so all you get is the partial message from what I understand they're saying. It basically puts me in a delivery boy spot (as it shifts me into having to question them) and doesn't let me focus into trying to gather myself to get into the game and organize my townreads, which I believe it's the thing I'm better at in day one.

[fferyllt]

Actually if you look at that game you'd see I'm not particularly big on day one in general.

that day 1 didn't last long enough to draw any conclusions about whether your day 1 is big or not. I kinda treated day 2 as day 1 part 2, and I assume so did most town players.

[fferyllt]

also I've played quite a few games with tammy in the last year or so. We both like theme games and we like many of the same mods, so our paths cross frequently. We're still kinda working out how we play together when we're town.

[Cheetory6]

Bane: UT

Gonna talk about Bulba with teammates and try to flesh out that read.
Zar's last post makes me feel better about him. I can imagine that kind of mindset from how he was interacting with Tammy.
I don't mind CDB's last few posts, but I feel like he's focusing on a lot of theorycrafting which is hard to get a feeling from.

@CDB

, can I get your thoughts on Zar's play on top of the thoughts you already gave wrt Tammy's push for him?

[hitogoroshi]

VC 13 (Minor Day 1, VC 13)

Bane:

Target player's Sign is revealed.

(3)

Gammagooey:

ActionDan, vezokpiraka, Marquis [L-7]
(3)

Zar

: Tammy, Bulbazak, Titus [L-7]
(2)

vezokpiraka:

T S O, ChannelDelibird
(1)

No Bane:

GuyInFreezer
(1)

Mastin2:

Shadoweh
(1)

Marquis:

Gammagooey
(1)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Cheetory6

(DeasVail)

(1)

Titus:

mastin2

(T S O, ChannelDelibird)

(0)

Cheetory6:

(Bulbazak)

(0)

ChannelDelibird:

(Titus, Cheetory6)

(5)

No Bane Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Untrod Tripod, Zar

(mastin2)

Choice:

Should protection stop

one

kill, but inform players when a kill on them was prevented; or

two

kills, without this information?

(10)

One:

ChannelDelibird, ActionDan, vezokpiraka, GuyInFreezer, Marquis, DeasVail, Shadoweh, Titus, Bulbazak, mastin2 [Decided!]

(4)

Two:

Gammagooey, Untrod Tripod, Cheetory6, T S O

(5)

No Choice Vote:

Antihero, Aronis, Espeonage, Tammy, Zar

(Bulbazak, mastin2)

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to Bane or Choose. Deadline is Sunday, April 5th at 9 PM CST.

Minor Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-05 21:00:00)

mastin2 may be V/LA in the near future.

[hitogoroshi]

The

Choice

has been made. The effect of protection is to prevent one kill on the target and to inform the target if a kill on them is prevented this way.

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't mind CDB's last few posts, but I feel like he's focusing on a lot of theorycrafting which is hard to get a feeling from.

That's perfectly reasonable; I haven't had time to delve too deeply into analysis beyond the surface level of catching up yet.

@CDB

, can I get your thoughts on Zar's play on top of the thoughts you already gave wrt Tammy's push for him?

As I tried to say earlier, I find it a little difficult to extricate it from the meta stuff on which I'm less comfortable commenting. The amount of time devoted to Tammy & communication thereto from his team thread seems understandable as either alignment (he either needs to get it cleared up as town or to do damage control as scum). I think his addressing of me here could be seen as asking things for appearances' sake, but I'm mostly OK with his contributions that don't require knowledge of how his interpersonal dynamics work in order to be understood.

[Cheetory6]

Look, I get that you're lost right now, but can you please not let yourself form judgements around who appeals to your emotional side.

Where exactly am I appealing to DV's emotional side in any of my interactions with him? :/

[fferyllt]

TOWN

Tammy
Deasvail
GiF
Titus

MAYBE TOWN

Marquis. - I don't like the stuff Deas likes. Will ultimately probably defer to GiF
Actiondan. - possibility of scum theater maybe, but otherwise leaning a little town. have a question in to my team about the interaction with UT
T S O - not having a strong read on him is concerning me a little
Gammagooey. - will be soliciting from my team to clarify this read
ChannelDelibird.
Cheetory6.
Mastin2. - this will be a nacho-read probs. Leaning slight town on my own.
Shadoweh. - want input from my team

NOT SO TOWN

Bulbazak.
UT
Vezok
Zar. - here for now because Tammy/Empire.

WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU?

Antihero.
Aronis.
Espeonage.

[T S O]

I agree with that readslist 100%, except for me, natch.

Though I'd create a middle section and probably stuff people like Marquis into it.

[fferyllt]

MAYBE TOWN is my middle section and that's where Marquis is.

[GuyInFreezer]

Why did multiple people ask of I'm scum?
Are you trying to soflty push a mislynch on me or something?
I'm town.

[GuyInFreezer]

Marquis. - I don't like the stuff Deas likes. Will ultimately probably defer to GiF

I have something in mind but it won't be solidified til later.