Mini 1653: A Game of Pokes - game over

[Aristophanes]

Aristo vanishing since:

Two of the three things quoted from me are taken out of context.

Aristophanes I won't quote my response to this but considering you debated the context of the quotes I had expected you to try and defend your position. Instead it appears you thought you had made something clear which you didn't and accused both Riblet and I of nitpicking each other when you had no idea what we were saying.

I find this very odd.

Basically if you don't read most of my posts ...

Aristo accused Riblet/I of nitpicking each other in our walls. He then says he never read any of the walls.

The 2 statements do not correlate.

I mean, I work a lot and weekends especially. My apologies on "vanishing"

Without reading the posts, it seemed obvious to me, since in each post you quoted almost every line of the other person's separately with a response to it specifically, that you were nitpicking. It's not rocket science. I've seen it before and it's almost never worth reading.

Yeah, it was a legitimate question. It speaks to the players willingness to answer certain types of questions.

It was a really dumb question if it was legitimate and really makes me want to vote you. Like, seriously? Lol

I haven't fully read back and may or may not tbh.
Slandarr, I'll sheep you today as I haven't read back and really want a flip. I know it's crappy strategy and that I should do something myself, but it's not gonna happen before D1 is over.
Your vote is on Fish right now. Is he or another of the 5 you listed as possible lynches the best way to go today?

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, it was a legitimate question. It speaks to the players willingness to answer certain types of questions.

It was a really dumb question if it was legitimate and really makes me want to vote you. Like, seriously? Lol

But my 2nd grade teacher said there are no stupid questions.*cry*

[Slandaar]

He posts in a way which comes across as knowing too much.

Can you give a few examples of this? I just reviewed his ISO and couldn't find any real good examples.

Well, after finally finding out what tunneling is, I have decided to UNVOTE: as I was blinded by my own ideas which I got from the Slandaar vs Riblet arguement. It was foolish, I see that now.

Seems too self aware for newbie town.

----

Sorry I did not respond until now, my internet has been up and down all day, anyway...

That is quite alright Kelbris

@Slandaar, knowing that Riblet's claim against you was based on a bunch of lies and contradictions, I would consider him scummy, his replacing out when people started suspecting him and saying that he is done with the site does not strike me as something that town would do. However, Formerfish's posts have returned him to a null state in my eyes. He does not seem to act anything like his predecessor and his posts do not reak of lies like Riblet's do.

I don't know. Riblet was lying and contradicting himself, what has Fishie done to redeem the slot other than not be Riblet?

----

My apologies on "vanishing"

That is quite alright Aristophanes

Without reading the posts, it seemed obvious to me, since in each post you quoted almost every line of the other person's separately with a response to it specifically, that you were nitpicking. It's not rocket science. I've seen it before and it's almost never worth reading.

Hrm.

Define nitpicking.

[Saul Goode]

Formerfish - While I appreciate where you are coming from on this post:

Monkey, in any of the games we've played together recently, you've been town right? Was each and every post you made in those games dripping with so much town that people knew without a doubt what your alignment was? Or do you think that town can make a scummy post from time to time? If uoi focus too much on individual posts then you are going to lose perspective. Taking all posts into account will give you a much better representation of a player than cherry picked posts. The latter is something scum does to try and paint someone with a particular brush.

That's a very easy post for scum to make. Why should I be Town reading you right now? Assume I'll be voting you or Kelbris and if I were to vote Kelbris it would only be out of sheer laziness.

[massive]

Seems too self aware for newbie town.

Do you think a newbie scum would be this self-aware? It seems like the moniker you have argument with is "newbie" and not necessarily the alignment.

[Slandaar]

Seems too self aware for newbie town.

Do you think a newbie scum would be this self-aware? It seems like the moniker you have argument with is "newbie" and not necessarily the alignment.

It's much easier as scum as you are more concious (self aware) of your actions. Yes, I think it is much more likely.

[Slandaar]

And continuing, something Wicked covered, the reaction test, again as scum he would know I am town so assume I have some sort of pro-town intentions with my post ie reaction test in this instance hence assume reaction test. It just seemed like he was in the know too much there. I could have just been mocking him after all...

I came to the conclusion that Slandaar's post was trying to gauge reactions was after he revealed that he was imitating me

Slandaar revealed that he was imitating you in post 21, yet you didn’t vote him until post 65. By this point, Riblet had joined the bandwagon and it had become clear that burn and Cheetory were fairly committed. I sense opportunism here.

[Aristophanes]

@Slandarr
Nitpicking: Picking apart of something to a ridiculous level.
In this case, each line of an opposer's text is nitpicked.
In other examples, one may nitpick grammar and spelling.

Basically breaks down what is said to a level that is unhelpful. It also allows for the context of lines to be skewed, making scumreading them easier.

[Slandaar]

@Slandarr
Nitpicking: Picking apart of something to a ridiculous level.
In this case, each line of an opposer's text is nitpicked.
In other examples, one may nitpick grammar and spelling.

Basically breaks down what is said to a level that is unhelpful. It also allows for the context of lines to be skewed, making scumreading them easier.

And how do you know this is happening without reading?

I posted a nice case.
Riblet responded to my points
I then refuted his arguments.

How exactly does nitpicking apply here?

[Wickedestjr]

Read page 16.

vikingfan – town

Explain this please.

[Wickedestjr]

Read page 17.

That's because FA is a replacement, and I was mixed on the two different players.

I don't understand this. By the way, FA is not a replacement...

I'd say outside of that post your content is average. But that is a telling post for me. You seem to think that people shouldn't take into account individual posts and should only look at the larger picture. Are you afraid of being discovered for your scummy intentions?

If this isn't a loaded question, then I don't know what purpose it serves. This whole post feels out of place.

It's not a loaded question, I was trying to gauge the players state of mind. I wanted to know why he constantly says that people need to look at the larger picture.

It is a loaded question, because it makes the unverified assumption that Saul is scum. If Saul were to respond to that question and no side comments, he would look bad regardless of his response. e.g. Yes, I am afraid of being discovered for my scummy intentions. OR No, I'm not worried about being discovered for my scummy intentions.

Your other comments allow Saul to respond, but the question itself is far from legitimate.

Kelbris

, what is your read on vikingfan? What did you think of his vote for Flames?

[Wickedestjr]

Slandaar, I'm very sorry for my recent activity - life has just been very busy. Fortunately, I've only got a page left to catch up on...

[Wickedestjr]

All caught up... Okay we have three and a half days left- I think it's time that we start narrowing our focus. Pretty sure this is the current vote count;

massive(1): Saul Goode
vikingfan(2): Wickedestjr, randomidget
OkaPoka(3): massive, Monkeyman576, Kelbris
Monkeyman576(1): OkaPoka
kelbris(1): Formerfish
randomidget(3): havingfitz, FA_Q2, vikingfan
Formerfish (1): Slandaar
Not voting: Aristophanes
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

My favorite lynch options are vikingfan, kelbris, Oka, and Monkey (in that order).

vikingfan- The vote for Flames is still bad. He even admitted that he didn't know Flames' motivation, as scum, to act the way that he did. Also, I have a hard time believing he missed the 'randomidget thinks kelbris is town' discussion - his vote for random seems opportunistic.

kelbris- A close second. He is still scummy for his weird Slandaar vote and explanations before/after. This lynch also has two key benefits: a.) He has claimed VT already. Lynching kelbris removes the opportunity for other roles to be outed. There's a good chance he's scum, but, even if he isn't, the loss is small because he's not a power role. b.) His lynch could be very informative. He has made a lot of posts and it feels like he has been one of the major focuses of this game. One of the primary goals of day 1 is to get information and I think his lynch gets it, regardless of the flip.

Oka- I currently town read Oka, but that town read is very weak. The lynch-chain post feels like a town tell, but I realize that that could be the intention behind it. I'm certain of the fact that Oka's lynch would be very informative. In particular, I think Oka's flip could help us read massive and Monkey - I see possibilities of bussing there, if Oka flips scum.

Monkey- His play so far has felt off for reasons I've explained.


Aristophanes should cast a vote- think for yourself please. Saul, Slandaar, and Oka should probably vote elsewhere.

[vikingfan]

catching up now, weekend was much busier than expected. My apologies (seems like this is happening to half the game, sadly, judging from everyone else's responses. but my sincere apologies for vanishing. Truth be told, the main reason I'm staying in is to eliminate ika looking for yet another replacement and I don't want to do that to ika.

No, I didn't miss the randomidget discussion, it's just what struck me most upon a reread. Not much more to it than that. Remember, I pretty much had to discard half the early game because of replacements. That was one of hte few things that came to me that I could actually do something with as compared to 'well, I can't ask so and so about this post because they're gone'.

As for posts that stand out to me since the last time I posted:

Saul, that post that former made doesn't stand out much to me either way. It's an easy post for either town or scum to make so to me it's a null tell.
Aristophanes, I concur with Slandaar. It's not nitpicking to me if Slandaar and riblet are both attacking each other line by line post by post. That's a debate. That said, it's also a debate most of the town got tired pretty quickly.
Wicked-if I'd known that post of mine would have gotten that much attention, I never would have made it. I probably should have done a FOS instead and it was way too early in the game considering his relatively little posting.

As for my lynch list in no particular order:
Though I've been leaning Kelbris = newbtown, I do agree with wicked that POLICYWISE, he is the best lynch for day one. We eliminate outing any PRs day one (always a plus in my book), and as wicked says, he's not a power role. I'm honestly not sure how much information we'd get though but it would be something to work off for day 2.
Aristophanes seems way too 'let everyone else do the work for me'. I don't like those kind of players and ESPECIALLY not in the endgame. All it takes is one very assertive scum to hold sway over Aristo and we've lost. Everyone else is busy too- I am, wicked is, etc. We still do our own thinking. It also leans to me like 'if I'm scum, then I don't want to risk incriminating myself.'
Ditto, FA is not a replacement. Monkey, what are you talking about? it's right there in page one.
random is still the same.

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry my mistake, must have confused him with someone else.

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz, why do you have such a strong town read on FA_Q2?

I don't think I ever really get a strong town read on anyone. It's more of a combination of lack of suspicion and occasional nods of agreement when reading posts. FA (and all those in my town tier) hasn't given me a reason to suspect him and I seem to recall having agreed a few times with his posts and/or thought "that seemed townish."

If it comes down to the wire my preferred lynches would be random Idgit, kelbris or slightly further back...OkaPoka.

[Formerfish]

I'm sorry guys

I'm vla for a few days

personal shit has come up and I should be able to get past it shortly, its just going to take all my attention for the time being.

[kelbris]

@Slandaar Whilst Monkey has not done anything specifically good/bad so far, I prefer to not let the predecessor determine my vote, I prefer to evaluate a slot on teh merits (or not) of the current member. At this time, I am getting a null read from him, Riblet was acting scummy sure, BUT that does not mean he IS scum, rather his playstyle in this particular instance made it seem such. Monkey has not acted scummy and his posts have not had any slips or scumtells, so I prefer to leave him as null for now.

@wickedestjr I am currently reading Vikingfan as town, I don't really like the situation that occurred with flames and agree with viking's assessment of that series of events.

Anyway, on to the subject of the day 1 lynch, if I am to be the sacrifice to get the game rolling, I do not mind, feel free to vote for me. This is NOT a confession of being scum, far from it, I am simply offering myself up to help the game progress since otherwise, we could wind up with a no-lynch today.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, I'm very sorry for my recent activity - life has just been very busy. Fortunately, I've only got a page left to catch up on...

That is quite alright Wickedestjr.

@Slandaar Whilst Monkey has not done anything specifically good/bad so far, I prefer to not let the predecessor determine my vote, I prefer to evaluate a slot on teh merits (or not) of the current member. At this time, I am getting a null read from him, Riblet was acting scummy sure, BUT that does not mean he IS scum, rather his playstyle in this particular instance made it seem such. Monkey has not acted scummy and his posts have not had any slips or scumtells, so I prefer to leave him as null for now.

Wrong player - Riblet is Fishie not Monkey.

Anyway, on to the subject of the day 1 lynch, if I am to be the sacrifice to get the game rolling, I do not mind, feel free to vote for me. This is NOT a confession of being scum, far from it, I am simply offering myself up to help the game progress since otherwise, we could wind up with a no-lynch today.

Hrm.

Everyone should vote Fishie (Mafia) as soon as possible.

[Slandaar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6609413

Read how he replaces in to that game; very recent game just ended. I didn't even know this till now, begin the lynch.

[Iknal]

Vote Count 1.11

No change

massive(1): Saul Goode
vikingfan(2): Wickedestjr, randomidget
OkaPoka(3): massive, Monkeyman576, Kelbris
Monkeyman576(1): OkaPoka
kelbris(1): Formerfish
randomidget(3): havingfitz, FA_Q2, vikingfan
Formerfish (1): Slandaar

Not voting: Aristophanes

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-04-04 17:00:00)

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: Fish

[massive]

Whilst Monkey has not done anything specifically good/bad so far, I prefer to not let the predecessor determine my vote, I prefer to evaluate a slot on teh merits (or not) of the current member. At this time, I am getting a null read from him, Riblet was acting scummy sure, BUT that does not mean he IS scum, rather his playstyle in this particular instance made it seem such. Monkey has not acted scummy and his posts have not had any slips or scumtells, so I prefer to leave him as null for now.

So I am trying REALLY hard to give you the newbie benefit of doubt, but I don't see any practical reason for anyone who plays this game to do this. Why would you ignore valuable information when trying to determine someone's alignment, just because they got replaced?

[Slandaar]

Massive

Vote Fishie

[Randomnamechange]

Catching up.