New York 180 (Endgame)

[elusive]

Shinobi,

Your reads bounce, I looked at you in ISO and you were on Kitz's case for the majority of your play - what changed?

As for your explanations they are sub-par, you fluff more then you analyze and you lack reasoning. I agree with Kitz's in post #4824 and you deflect rather then answer them.

Also your read on Aero still doesn't make sense seems its based on him voting your for thinking your "kill for funsies" post was scummy. So no you suck. Now if you ISOed him and provided some reasoning as to why - you know I think they call it a case - I might be inclined to oh...I guess listen.

[Shinobi]

Thinking my reads are sub-par is meaningless.

I just explained my Kitz/Aero reads so there's no reason for you to not understand them.

[Shinobi]

What you're saying about my Aero read isn't even accurate.

[elusive]

Explain it again to me real slow like you mean it.

[Ozgin]

So SW are you saying Ozgin is also a neighbor?

Yeah, I'm permanently a neighbor with SilverWolf.

@Shinobi - It's a gutread. I honestly feel as though it was all too orchestrated.

@TSO - I'm saying I feel like you're the Serial Killer, who planned on claiming vig. You started to crumb this fact: "The Vigilante will kill MathBlade." Then you tried to paint MathBlade in a negative light, so when you actually killed MathBlade, nobody would be angry/surprised that Math was killed. Then, you claimed vig, subsequently claiming your crumb of "The vigilante killed MathBlade," and played off on everyone's hate for MathBlade so nobody was angry that you killed a town. There's also nothing saying that YOU killed the scum n1. There was another kill. What if you killed Boon by mistake?

However, SilverWolf made a good point to me - there's no point in arguing this issue for the rest of today. SK or Vig, it doesn't matter. The point is you have the ability to kill things at night, and this can help the town hugely.

We have Ozgin, who's saying "hey thats not a crumb neither is that but that is you crumbing but maybe youre crumbing as sk!!!", where he took a gigantic post to come to the conclusion that, yes, I crumbed. That's it. That was the sum total of the conclusion.

Very not true about what my point was. I was addressing each of your "crumbs" directly. Some weren't crumbs, and the crumbs that were there happened within like 15 posts of each other, as if you were really zealous to orchestrate this idea of you being a good vig who has to be town and killed MathBlade. I just think it's shady as fuck and unbelievable.

Trying to figure out where I stand on Marquis. Gimme some time.

[goodmorning]

Shimobi is trying

awfully hard

to make ABR's no-result a thing.

[Shinobi]

Shimobi is trying

awfully hard

to make ABR's no-result a thing.

Already noted by someone else but still meaningless.

If you had votes on you and one of our information roles claimed a check on you, you'd be doing the exact same thing.

[T S O]

But what you're saying, this is literally exactly what you're fucking saying, is "I think you could have done this as the SK, THEREFORE YOU ARE THE SK".

It's like saying "I think heads could be this flip, THEREFORE THIS FLIP WILL BE HEADS." Except that's not even accurate because I'm not 50% likely to be the SK, but I don't even care about that right now.

And you also think I'm lying about shooting pisskop - so your working theory right now is "TSO the SK who claimed Vig shot Boonskiies n1 because ???, and the REAL vig shot pisskop, and this real Vig also hasn't counterclaimed, again because ???".

[T S O]

Meanwhile, the Shinobi wagon is gaining traction despite a lack of anything to make him scum, the Marquis wagon refuses to gain traction because scum have essentially veto'd their votes on him, and Ozgin is proposing the most ludicrous. theories. ever.

[elusive]

Yeah but that's what you said about FA too, didn't you?

[T S O]

Yes, I did indeed call FA the SK when he was clearly a Vig for no reason.

My bad.

[Ozgin]

TSO, you're missing my point.

I'm saying that your Vig claim is too good. Too planned. Too... calculated. I'm not denying that you could be SK, but I don't think it's a 50-50 chance. I think the way you went about it makes you more likely to be the SK.

Also, does anyone else remember how weird it was when TSO started the day with, "I'm starting to doubt the existence of a Serial Killer," or something to that degree>

[elusive]

TSO

When SHinobi gives me a solid case on Aeronaut being scum then I'll consider him seriously. He's been coasting and he has scum reads based on one-liners.

No you said FA was obvi scum and he wasn't.

One of you or Marquis needs to die.

If you think Ozgin is scum then SW must be too and who the fuck knows with the GM claim and that little hood.

[T S O]

TSO, you're missing my point.

I'm saying that your Vig claim is too good. Too planned. Too... calculated. I'm not denying that you could be SK, but I don't think it's a 50-50 chance. I think the way you went about it makes you more likely to be the SK.

So, basically, the claim makes sense, but you're paranoid of me, so it can't be true.

Right.

[T S O]

TSO

When SHinobi gives me a solid case on Aeronaut being scum then I'll consider him seriously. He's been coasting and he has scum reads based on one-liners.

No you said FA was obvi scum and he wasn't.

One of you or Marquis needs to die.

If you think Ozgin is scum then SW must be too and who the fuck knows with the GM claim and that little hood.

I'm not calling Ozgin scum, I want Marquis to die, I've explained my reasons for FA-scum countless times, Shinobi being lazy doesn't make him scum, Aeronaut probably -is- scum anyway.

[elusive]

This is my question, Wake is not some sub par player. He just isn't, he's calculated. WHy would he hammer and then why would he replace if he were scum? He reminds me of House in preferring to play scum.

[T S O]

Wake has been having an extremely hard time lately and his game has suffered because of it. There's an easy way to verify that, if you want to look for it.

[Ozgin]

I am starting to doubt the authenticity of the Serial Killer as well - one night of 3 kills out of 5 nights has me skeptical.

[T S O]

Okay, Ozgin, why don't

you

tell me what my master plan was? Hit scum (or Boonskiies for no reason, isn't that your theory?) n1, then proceed to not kill n2, shoot MB n3 and nk n4 straight in order to fake being the Vig? Meanwhile, the real Vig, who shot scum n1, ALSO doesn't kill for 3 nights because again, no reason? And then doesn't counterclaim because

still no reason?

[Ozgin]

Day 1 - "Let's kill someone random! Why not? I'm the SK, it's my

job

to kill everyone. Either kill scum luckily or doctor (just as lucky for me, since I'm anti-everything)."
Day 2 - "Oh look, a scum died last night. I can claim that as my own work."
Day 3 - "Hm. I'm gonna hard crumb that the vig will kill MathBlade tonight, then as the SK kill Math so I can claim vig later! They'll have to buy it!"
Day 4 - "Everyone is shitting on FAQ. Instead of claiming vig now, I'll just ride out this wave and let them lynch someone, and claim tomorrow."
Day 5 - "Everyone look! Turn your attention to day 3 - I must be vig because I hard crumbed this! I also must be town because I'm a vig and scum died night 1! Let's kill Marquis!"

Now, if Marquis flips town on a lynch and you're alive tomorrow (And no scum die tonight):

Day 6 - "Woah woah woah guys, it was an honest mistake! I'm a vig, not a cop! I couldn't have known my kill last night was town, and I couldn't have known that Marquis wasn't scum! They looked like scum! I dunno why I'm still alive! Please don't lynch me!"

But if the scum kill you tonight and you flip SK, I'll probably laugh harder than I should. If you flip vigilante, I'll feel pretty stupid, but my gut is SCREAMING at me.

[Kitz]

So, here's a question :

If Viking lied just to cred himself, would it mean there's just 2 kills as opposed to 3?
When we can say that's the actual truth, how much weight does the SK thing hold?

Poking a hole in this whole thing, one does not need a master plan, but to just go on with it.

Also, random question. What Non-SK neutral killers are accepted in Normal Large?

[Shinobi]

Day 1 - "Let's kill someone random! Why not? I'm the SK, it's my

job

to kill everyone. Either kill scum luckily or doctor (just as lucky for me, since I'm anti-everything)."
Day 2 - "Oh look, a scum died last night. I can claim that as my own work."
Day 3 - "Hm. I'm gonna hard crumb that the vig will kill MathBlade tonight, then as the SK kill Math so I can claim vig later! They'll have to buy it!"
Day 4 - "Everyone is shitting on FAQ. Instead of claiming vig now, I'll just ride out this wave and let them lynch someone, and claim tomorrow."
Day 5 - "Everyone look! Turn your attention to day 3 - I must be vig because I hard crumbed this! I also must be town because I'm a vig and scum died night 1! Let's kill Marquis!"

Now, if Marquis flips town on a lynch and you're alive tomorrow (And no scum die tonight):

Day 6 - "Woah woah woah guys, it was an honest mistake! I'm a vig, not a cop! I couldn't have known my kill last night was town, and I couldn't have known that Marquis wasn't scum! They looked like scum! I dunno why I'm still alive! Please don't lynch me!"

But if the scum kill you tonight and you flip SK, I'll probably laugh harder than I should. If you flip vigilante, I'll feel pretty stupid, but my gut is SCREAMING at me.

Your gut isn't worth anything, sorry.

[elusive]

TSO hard defending Shinobi and vice versa, is this a sign Lord?

[Ozgin]

Your gut isn't worth anything, sorry.

You're absolutely correct. I'm just saying I'm not ready to buy into this whole TSO-vig thing, and that's fine. I have no intention of killing TSO yet, because right now I don't have a reason to suspect him scum, and even if my gut SK-read is correct, for now he's better off alive and tropsing around as a town vig than as a dead SK who can't kill people that we, as town, want him to kill.

I mean, hey, worst case scenario he's a Serial Killer on a leash, right?

[Shinobi]

Your gut isn't worth anything, sorry.

You're absolutely correct. I'm just saying I'm not ready to buy into this whole TSO-vig thing, and that's fine. I have no intention of killing TSO yet, because right now I don't have a reason to suspect him scum, and even if my gut SK-read is correct, for now he's better off alive and tropsing around as a town vig than as a dead SK who can't kill people that we, as town, want him to kill.

I mean, hey, worst case scenario he's a Serial Killer on a leash, right?

Coolio. So if we don't lynch TSO, who do we lynch? Besides myself and Marquis.

TSO hard defending Shinobi and vice versa, is this a sign Lord?

Yes, the supposed SK is aligning with a supposed mafioso that everyone wants dead. Good job.