Newbie 1587 - Puppy mafia - Game over

[House]

So I'm back.
plotinus, thank you for your concern, I really appreciate it.

Please don't see it as a reason to not put pressure on me

, I'm still a part of this game. If I wouldn't be able to play I would ask for leave or even replacement.
I'm now going to finish up my analysis, I feel sort of bad that it's taking so long but I'm almost done.

I'm having a hard time seeing Wanderer as scum saying this. It would be much easier to sit back and let people go easy on them. I know this is a little gray area because of unfortunate r/l circumstances being involved, but Wanderer seems interested in the integrity of the game itself, and that's very town.

[Wanderer-nl]

I still can't make up my mind about house. He never seemed to eager to hop on any bandwagon, it would be easiest for scum to do that but house didn't. On day 1 house was mostly playing anti-town, but on day 2 his posts to me seem more invested, I also think house is very open as tactics, he's not in an SE slot so he doesn't have to do that, yet he posts links to his other games. So I lean town right now, but I do have 1 question I would like answered:

Okay, so would you be more keen on lynching orz? Or does someone else take your fancy? What do you think about deathfisaro?

Mod - can we please get orz replaced?

I'm glad that Depi subbed in. I want to see more from him before I commit to a read, because I've played a couple games with him and I'm confident that I'll be able to sort him once I have more to work with.

3 games. Basically you call me scum every game and of the 3 games I was actually scum in one, but in that game you didn't push it and changed the vote onto a couple other people.
Now this is the 4th game, since town to scum ratio is roughly 3:1, and this being my 3rd town game out of 4 makes statistically perfect sense.
But that is WIFOM because it's a little bit too perfect for a small number of sample size. So this game call me scum and push hard. So next time we meet, my get out of jail free card will be your scumread on me, with the history of 0% accuracy in the past 4 games we played together.

Or you can chicken out, I won't judge.

@house, did you expect deathfisario to respond upset/annoyed at you here?

I suspected he would be a bit of a grumpus towards me because I have a tendency to scumread him, but it's fun doing so because of his reactions to it.

Did you trigger this response so you could use it as an argument in your defense after NK'ing him?

[Wanderer-nl]

@wanderer Do you have any scumreads?

I'd say my strongest scumreads currently are on Mainez and laladucks. But they are not strong enough to make a vote for yet.

[Fromage]

You're right I haven't interacted with Mainez yet. Others have already asked good questions to them. When they post I will certainly address them.

[House]

I still can't make up my mind about house. He never seemed to eager to hop on any bandwagon, it would be easiest for scum to do that but house didn't. On day 1 house was mostly playing anti-town, but on day 2 his posts to me seem more invested, I also think house is very open as tactics, he's not in an SE slot so he doesn't have to do that, yet he posts links to his other games. So I lean town right now, but I do have 1 question I would like answered:

Okay, so would you be more keen on lynching orz? Or does someone else take your fancy? What do you think about deathfisaro?

Mod - can we please get orz replaced?

I'm glad that Depi subbed in. I want to see more from him before I commit to a read, because I've played a couple games with him and I'm confident that I'll be able to sort him once I have more to work with.

3 games. Basically you call me scum every game and of the 3 games I was actually scum in one, but in that game you didn't push it and changed the vote onto a couple other people.
Now this is the 4th game, since town to scum ratio is roughly 3:1, and this being my 3rd town game out of 4 makes statistically perfect sense.
But that is WIFOM because it's a little bit too perfect for a small number of sample size. So this game call me scum and push hard. So next time we meet, my get out of jail free card will be your scumread on me, with the history of 0% accuracy in the past 4 games we played together.

Or you can chicken out, I won't judge.

@house, did you expect deathfisario to respond upset/annoyed at you here?

I suspected he would be a bit of a grumpus towards me because I have a tendency to scumread him, but it's fun doing so because of his reactions to it.

Did you trigger this response so you could use it as an argument in your defense after NK'ing him?

No?

I responded to his response to my interest in him subbing in.

[Fromage]

@wanderer Do you have any scumreads?

I'd say my strongest scumreads currently are on Mainez and laladucks. But they are not strong enough to make a vote for yet.

Why not? A vote keeps the game moving and puts pressure on the players.

[Fromage]

So I'm back.
plotinus, thank you for your concern, I really appreciate it.

Please don't see it as a reason to not put pressure on me

, I'm still a part of this game. If I wouldn't be able to play I would ask for leave or even replacement.
I'm now going to finish up my analysis, I feel sort of bad that it's taking so long but I'm almost done.

I'm having a hard time seeing Wanderer as scum saying this. It would be much easier to sit back and let people go easy on them. I know this is a little gray area because of unfortunate r/l circumstances being involved, but Wanderer seems interested in the integrity of the game itself, and that's very town.

It could also be scum who wants to win by "fair means".

[Wanderer-nl]

@wanderer Do you have any scumreads?

I'd say my strongest scumreads currently are on Mainez and laladucks. But they are not strong enough to make a vote for yet.

Why not? A vote keeps the game moving and puts pressure on the players.

Mostly because I want to give them both a chance to respond first.
Gun-to-my-head I'd go for Mainez because of the lurkishness.

[lalaladucks]

fromage and laladucks both replaced in late in the game. I like how they both were active really fast, but they haven't been around long enough to have strong reads yet. So far fromage looks more town, I have trouble reading laladucks so far. She uses a lot of smileys and it makes me wonder whether she is trying to hide behind the friendly faces.

Agh, this was a point of issue in my previous game as well. I really just enjoy using smilies. I will stop using them if you would like. Do you want me to?

What makes you think fromage looks town in particular?

@laladucks, since your prelimenary reads, have your opinions changed? Specificly the alive players, and more specificly house and Mainez. And who do you think is most likely scum right now?

I still believe House is comparable to cornstarch goo. But I am leaning a bit more to the town side for him as of now. I think he was truthful in that Day 1 was boring to him and as such, he didn't want to participate as much. It is Day 2 now and he is contributing some useful tips and hypotheses. Unfortunately, I am null on Mainez presently. Really, they haven't posted much at all and if I don't see a change in that I will decide Mainez is active lurking. If Mainez is lurking, I will think he's not assisting town at all and is therefore scum.

I will go into more detail about the other players in a successive post.

My strongest scumspect is Fromage. Wow, do I have a bad feeling about him (and he probably thinks the same of me). He has immediately latched onto me as ducksgoat and I don't like it. If he is scum it looks like he is doing a pretty good job of appearing town. Questioning, pushing (the wrong person). I will explain more in the aforementioned successive post because I can see a lot of new posts coming in.

On an unrelated side note, the name Fromage just seems kinda like an evil genius name, you know? Like if you say it in a really suave, deeeeep voice -

Fromage

- I can really imagine him being evil.

[Wanderer-nl]

I still can't make up my mind about house. He never seemed to eager to hop on any bandwagon, it would be easiest for scum to do that but house didn't. On day 1 house was mostly playing anti-town, but on day 2 his posts to me seem more invested, I also think house is very open as tactics, he's not in an SE slot so he doesn't have to do that, yet he posts links to his other games. So I lean town right now, but I do have 1 question I would like answered:

Okay, so would you be more keen on lynching orz? Or does someone else take your fancy? What do you think about deathfisaro?

Mod - can we please get orz replaced?

I'm glad that Depi subbed in. I want to see more from him before I commit to a read, because I've played a couple games with him and I'm confident that I'll be able to sort him once I have more to work with.

3 games. Basically you call me scum every game and of the 3 games I was actually scum in one, but in that game you didn't push it and changed the vote onto a couple other people.
Now this is the 4th game, since town to scum ratio is roughly 3:1, and this being my 3rd town game out of 4 makes statistically perfect sense.
But that is WIFOM because it's a little bit too perfect for a small number of sample size. So this game call me scum and push hard. So next time we meet, my get out of jail free card will be your scumread on me, with the history of 0% accuracy in the past 4 games we played together.

Or you can chicken out, I won't judge.

@house, did you expect deathfisario to respond upset/annoyed at you here?

I suspected he would be a bit of a grumpus towards me because I have a tendency to scumread him, but it's fun doing so because of his reactions to it.

Did you trigger this response so you could use it as an argument in your defense after NK'ing him?

No?

I responded to his response to my interest in him subbing in.

Ok well it looked completely out of the blue but I see.

[Fromage]

@laladucks, since your prelimenary reads, have your opinions changed? Specificly the alive players, and more specificly house and Mainez. And who do you think is most likely scum right now?

I think she has already said that I'm her most likely scum. Only because she's more "polite" than I am she hasn't voted me yet...

I think that's opportunistic.

Moreover, if you think laladucks is scummy, question her actions or motives. Don't give her such a free pass.

[House]

So I'm back.
plotinus, thank you for your concern, I really appreciate it.

Please don't see it as a reason to not put pressure on me

, I'm still a part of this game. If I wouldn't be able to play I would ask for leave or even replacement.
I'm now going to finish up my analysis, I feel sort of bad that it's taking so long but I'm almost done.

I'm having a hard time seeing Wanderer as scum saying this. It would be much easier to sit back and let people go easy on them. I know this is a little gray area because of unfortunate r/l circumstances being involved, but Wanderer seems interested in the integrity of the game itself, and that's very town.

It could also be scum who wants to win by "fair means".

You're implying that it would have somehow been unfair to sit back and let players give them latitude due to r/l circumstances, when that's not at all true.

Wanderer went above and beyond to protect the integrity of the game. That should be recognized and appreciated regardless of their or anyone else's alignment.

That said, I don't see why scum would want to draw more attention to themselves by literally asking to be pressured, regardless of circumstances.

[House]

@laladucks, since your prelimenary reads, have your opinions changed? Specificly the alive players, and more specificly house and Mainez. And who do you think is most likely scum right now?

I think she has already said that I'm her most likely scum. Only because she's more "polite" than I am she hasn't voted me yet...

I think that's opportunistic.

Moreover, if you think laladucks is scummy, question her actions or motives. Don't give her such a free pass.

You think not voting for a scumread is opportunistic?

I don't think you have a firm grasp on the concept of the word.

[House]

@laladucks, since your prelimenary reads, have your opinions changed? Specificly the alive players, and more specificly house and Mainez. And who do you think is most likely scum right now?

I still believe House is comparable to cornstarch goo.

But I am leaning a bit more to the town side for him as of now. I think he was truthful in that Day 1 was boring to him and as such, he didn't want to participate as much.

Perceptive, becuase I was. It was, and I didn't.

It is Day 2 now and he is contributing some useful tips and hypotheses. Unfortunately, I am null on Mainez presently. Really, they haven't posted much at all and if I don't see a change in that I will decide Mainez is active lurking. If Mainez is lurking, I will think he's not assisting town at all and is therefore scum.

That kinda depends. Is he simply not participating in this game, or not participating on the site at all?

If he's dodging this game but posting elsewhere, you have a point. However, if he's not posting at all, there might be a reason that has nothing to do with this game and his alignment would in that case be irrelevant to his activity.

On an unrelated side note, the name Fromage just seems kinda like an evil genius name, you know? Like if you say it in a really suave, deeeeep voice -

Fromage

- I can really imagine him being evil.

I really don't like this.

[Fromage]

It could also be scum who wants to win by "fair means".

You're implying that it would have somehow been unfair to sit back and let players give them latitude due to r/l circumstances, when that's not at all true.

Wanderer went above and beyond to protect the integrity of the game. That should be recognized and appreciated regardless of their or anyone else's alignment.

That said, I don't see why scum would want to draw more attention to themselves by literally asking to be pressured, regardless of circumstances.

It's not unfair to sit back when real life is hard. However I can well imagine that wanderer thinks so regardless of her alignment.

[Plotinus]

On an unrelated side note, the name Fromage just seems kinda like an evil genius name, you know? Like if you say it in a really suave, deeeeep voice -

Fromage

- I can really imagine him being evil.

I really don't like this.

Yeah, even though I'm preferring ducks over Fromage at the moment¹, that comments feels more of a RVS comment.

¹ At the moment this is about 381 and agreeing with House's take on it.

[House]

to add on, should have kept the votes at L-1 to put pressure on bv and observe his behaviour and attitude upon realising that he wasn't actually lynched. but that's over... so putting that aside, time to figure out the motive behind last night's kill.

This is the last post Mainez has made on the site.

No general discussion posts, no mafia discussion posts, no games, nothing.

His absence is not alignment indicative.

[House]

It could also be scum who wants to win by "fair means".

You're implying that it would have somehow been unfair to sit back and let players give them latitude due to r/l circumstances, when that's not at all true.

Wanderer went above and beyond to protect the integrity of the game. That should be recognized and appreciated regardless of their or anyone else's alignment.

That said, I don't see why scum would want to draw more attention to themselves by literally asking to be pressured, regardless of circumstances.

It's not unfair to sit back when real life is hard. However I can well imagine that wanderer thinks so regardless of her alignment.

You're implying knowledge of Wanderer outside of the context of this game. Do you know Wanderer-nl well enough to justify such a remark?

[Fromage]

It could also be scum who wants to win by "fair means".

You're implying that it would have somehow been unfair to sit back and let players give them latitude due to r/l circumstances, when that's not at all true.

Wanderer went above and beyond to protect the integrity of the game. That should be recognized and appreciated regardless of their or anyone else's alignment.

That said, I don't see why scum would want to draw more attention to themselves by literally asking to be pressured, regardless of circumstances.

It's not unfair to sit back when real life is hard. However I can well imagine that wanderer thinks so regardless of her alignment.

You're implying knowledge of Wanderer outside of the context of this game. Do you know Wanderer-nl well enough to justify such a remark?

No, I don't know her outside of this game. Because of her username I know that she speaks at least some German but no nothing more. It's a possibility not a certainity and yes I understand your argument.

[Plotinus]

about Mainez and active lurking vs passive lurking: 316, combined with a history of 196, 166, and 146 all make me feel like they're both busy with school stuff and a little overwhelmed by this thread and the volume of posts and information/misinformation. They're not due for a prod yet. When they do check in, I have been happy with the quality of their posts. I like hearing their thoughts.

[lalaladucks]

On an unrelated side note, the name Fromage just seems kinda like an evil genius name, you know? Like if you say it in a really suave, deeeeep voice -

Fromage

- I can really imagine him being evil.

I really don't like this.

Sorry. It isn't my reason for suspecting him. Just how his name sounds in my mind.


I strongly agree with this but Plotinus my my top townread.

My second top townread is Plotinus. He explained his actions in depth and is interested that the town keeps moving. And I consider his first post of day 2 day honest as well.

Somewhat agree with this. However I am still going to keep in mind the possibility of a Nikanor~Fromage scumpair.

At the moment my top townread is Nikanor. He asked questions which advanced the game, was present throughout the game and interacted with everyone. I also liked his quick posting after the night had ended. His surprise seems genuine and by not saying much he set up a potential trap.

My reasons for suspecting him are as follows:


To me, it looks like here he might be trying to cast suspicion on others (not definitely, maybe). The question addressed to me seems to have been the lead in to start ducksgoat.

Laladucks you ask a lot of open questions about deathfisaro's death. Let me ask you a very straightforward one: If you were mafia, who would you have killed and why?

I'm puzzled why the claimed doctor is still alive. Is he actually scum? Wanderer, would you have killed the doc as scum?

Fromage, nice question

If I were mafia I would probably have been tossing up between killing Nikanor or House.

My reasons to kill Nikanor would be because he is experienced and seems to be moving the game along nicely, questioning and pushing for answers. As this is a newb game, imo it might be wise for scum to pick off the more experienced players.

Killing House would get rid of the claimed doc. Although, he seems to be less helpful to town than Nikanor based on Day 1 so that could be a reason not to kill him - to confuse town even further.

Yeah, so to answer your question: either House or Nikanor

Nice answer.

Now I'll tell you why you killed deathisaro. You wanted to let house alive and lynch him afterwards for being alive. Nikanor had pretty strong suspicions against house. Therefore you had to let him alive. You hoped that he would lead the house lynch and you could just hop on the train.

Blatantly accuses me of being scum right here when anyone could have used that strategy. Also the statement is wrong. I don't even want House lynched at this point in time.

Nice job mate

Quicklynches are

so

town, right?

Anyways, bv310, nice playing with you but that 'townslip' just didn't work out for you

You were scum right? It's okay, you can tell - you're actually dead now.

First laladucks has completely forgotten house's quickhammer today.

More importantly it seems fake to me how she's so convinced that bv310 is scum. How can she be? This looks like scum pretending to be town.

Once again he casts suspicion on me. I had not completely forgotten the quickhammer, nor was my surprise at bv310's town flip fake.


Builds the case on ducksgoat. Accuses Wanderer and me of being a scumpair.

Nikanor and House, could you please look at wanderer's and laladucks/rr combined iso?

They don't interact at all! No questions, no critical comments just nothing. When they give reads they just say that the other looks town but nothing more.

Besides themselves they interact with (almost) everyone.

I'd be happy to listen to other opinions on this case. (especially of more experienced players)

Here Fromage says I pretended to be sure. I don't pretend (at least when I am town). I was genuinely surprised. I wasn't questioning House because I didn't really have any questions at that point.

Laladucks, I don't see your reasoning as scummy. I think how you pretended to be so sure after the hammer is scummy.

Also, why don't you question House if you haven't forgotten his quickhammer?

Plotinus what do you think of a wanderer laladucks scumpair?

Ducksgoat never works out in the end. Ask McMenno
So anyway, if you do convince the others that I am scum and get me lynched, and they see my flip, you are gone for the next day.

[Fromage]

@laladucks, since your prelimenary reads, have your opinions changed? Specificly the alive players, and more specificly house and Mainez. And who do you think is most likely scum right now?

I think she has already said that I'm her most likely scum. Only because she's more "polite" than I am she hasn't voted me yet...

I think that's opportunistic.

Moreover, if you think laladucks is scummy, question her actions or motives. Don't give her such a free pass.

You think not voting for a scumread is opportunistic?

I don't think you have a firm grasp on the concept of the word.

No, I don't think not voting for a scumread is opportunistic. I think it's opportunistic if someone doesn't want to start a wagon and prefers instead to jump on existing ones. I think it's opportunistic if someone avoids being hold accountable.

[lalaladucks]

On an unrelated side note, the name Fromage just seems kinda like an evil genius name, you know? Like if you say it in a really suave, deeeeep voice -

Fromage

- I can really imagine him being evil.

I really don't like this.

Yeah, even though I'm preferring ducks over Fromage at the moment¹, that comments feels more of a RVS comment.

¹ At the moment this is about 381 and agreeing with House's take on it.

I missed out on RVS. Just trying to have a little fun, but I guess it is too late in the game.

[House]

It could also be scum who wants to win by "fair means".

You're implying that it would have somehow been unfair to sit back and let players give them latitude due to r/l circumstances, when that's not at all true.

Wanderer went above and beyond to protect the integrity of the game. That should be recognized and appreciated regardless of their or anyone else's alignment.

That said, I don't see why scum would want to draw more attention to themselves by literally asking to be pressured, regardless of circumstances.

It's not unfair to sit back when real life is hard. However I can well imagine that wanderer thinks so regardless of her alignment.

You're implying knowledge of Wanderer outside of the context of this game. Do you know Wanderer-nl well enough to justify such a remark?

No, I don't know her outside of this game. Because of her username I know that she speaks at least some German but no nothing more. It's a possibility not a certainity and yes I understand your argument.

Considering your admitted lack of familiarity with Wanderer-nl, I find your earlier implication of such knowledge of her mindset to be scummy.

You were overreaching in your effort to undermine my townread. It could very well be that you are right in your assertion that she may have made such a post as either alignment. However the issue is that you couldn't possibly know that she would, as you implied when you made that post.

This duplicitous act serves no town purpose that I can fathom, but it does serve to prevent a player from being considered town and thus removed from consideration as scum, which is pro-scum.

VOTE: Fromage

[lalaladucks]

@laladucks, since your prelimenary reads, have your opinions changed? Specificly the alive players, and more specificly house and Mainez. And who do you think is most likely scum right now?

I think she has already said that I'm her most likely scum. Only because she's more "polite" than I am she hasn't voted me yet...

I think that's opportunistic.

Moreover, if you think laladucks is scummy, question her actions or motives. Don't give her such a free pass.

You think not voting for a scumread is opportunistic?

I don't think you have a firm grasp on the concept of the word.

No, I don't think not voting for a scumread is opportunistic. I think it's opportunistic if someone doesn't want to start a wagon and prefers instead to jump on existing ones. I think it's opportunistic if someone avoids being hold accountable.

I haven't decided not to vote for you. As I mentioned earlier,

This makes me think you are scum and you have selected me as the scapegoat (hereafter known as ducksgoat). However, I won't be voting you just yet

because I like to pickle my reasons for a little while. Until they are ripe and tasty (and accurate)

.

I was waiting to see if anyone else was on the same page as me or if my suspicions about you seemed completely unfounded to them.

Preview Edit:

Okay, it looks like House agrees with me. You like pressure, right Fromage? Here's just a little bit more for you
VOTE: Fromage