So here we are with someone who was under scrutiny for being a huge liability who suddenly finds that the appropriate response to demands he start playing decently is to say a huge fuck-you to everyone and
joke
dayvig. So you would say he isn't concerned about being lynche, right ? So why in his next post does does he write this :
the fact that he is more concerned with stopping a mislynch than finding one makes me think town.
DLA - whilst his early play felt good, some of his play has felt odd recently. I'm starting to lean null-scum. More on this coming.
Otolia - entire play feels off. I just think that this could be a clash of play styles, but I don't see town motivation in his posting
CKD - I don't see scum being this much of a dickhead. VI.
Sorry, I have to go, will finish this later.
Note that he never finished his list ... Described himself as the potential mislynch and appears to be thankful to BBT for taking his sides. The gap between an act that can only be described as stupid (the dayvig attempt) and the calculated attempt to buddy BBT cannot be the result of a town-aligned player.
CKD - On rereading the thread, I saw he caught a lot of things I didn't see the first time around. I like that he's pushing people on the things he catches but he's not eager to just join the first wagon he sees. He's showing the ability to see arguments from both sides such as when he question's Llama's push on RM, or when he corrects BBT on calling Misrep on Otoila towards the EoD. I'm confident CKD is Town.
Randomidget - At first glance, his 195 looks like he's sheeping onto the Otoila wagon, but if you look carefully and think about what he's saying in his post, it makes a lot of sense. Very, VERY succinctly, he's saying that he thinks Otoila doesn't want to get wrapped up in a 1v1 with DLA that would keep the focus on him, hence the "slipping under the radar" comment. The Marcrell townread was pretty weak tbh. In 335 though, he does make another point that nobody had really brought up. Collatz vote was pretty ironic since Collatz essentially sheeped the RM wagon, and if you check Collatz' ISO you'll notice he had only been focused on DLA and not the game as a whole until that point. I think people are dismissing him pretty easily here because of how little he's posting, but he does have some good points now and then and his lurking is just typical RM play. The worst thing about his play is his overall attitdue towards CKD. He's taking offense to CKD's tone, but I don't see wher CKD has been offensive at all. It's possible scumMidget would want to push here, and at best this could turn into a pointless shitstorm between the two (given how CKD feels about RM) if the grudge continues. Apparantly something similar has happened in the past with RM and flubbernugget, though I'm not sure as what alignment. Overall, I'm pretty sure this is Town RM.
RedCoyote - His entrance post at 170 seemed to have Townreads on DLA, Collatz, and scumreads on Otoila and Marcrell. I was reading DLA and Collatz the same way when it was happening, but on my reread I looked more carefully and got the opposite reads on DLA and Collatz (I'll explain this later in my list.). I may be misjudging his read on Otoila in that post since he asks Otoila to join a Marcrell wagon in 176. I disagree with the second point against Marcrell. I think that regardless of DLA's alignment, his vote wasn't intended to be as a serious scumread, and I think people overreacted to it and it turned into a mini shitstorm. His 3rd point against Marcrell was understandable, and Marcrell's CKD vote is questionable, but looking at his posts I thought Marcrell was just someone who's nitpicky about RVS votes. Then 202 happened where Marcrell admits to treating the CKD vote as a poliicy lynch and not just one vote, which validates the point against Marcrell here. I'm still not sure why RC asked Otoila to join the Marcrell wagon. Either I misjudged the read there, or RC wanted to see if one scumread would readily jump onto the other scumread's wagon which I feel would be Town motivated as he would be trying to get the two to form some kind of association to better read them either then or later in the game. I say RedCoyote is Town.
BBT - There are two main things I liked here: I liked how he opposed the D1 RM lynch because of how the wagon could easily be pushed, the low usefulness it would give the Town, and wanting to lynch his stronger reads. I also liked how towards the end of Day he stepped up and rallied votes for the RS lynch. Similar to my CKD read, I'm reading him more for his motivations than his actual content. I see a guy who wants to find scum and hang their ass. There is one thing I noticed in his posts that could be scum projecting, but I think it's more likely Town reading something that's not there. He saw what he thought could be coaching Reubus and he saw this from both RC and myself, and these both came after BBT's 243, which could be BBT coaching RM. I don't think the BBT-RM scumpair is likely though given that I read them both as Town, and it's more likely that BBT just misread our posts here. I read BBT as Town.
Now the scumreads:
Collatz: During the RVS he voted DLA for his vote switching, but when he's questioned about it, he thinks it's likely to come from scum amd Town. LATER ON THE SAME PAGE he says he doesn't know why scum would switch their votes, but doesn't know why Town would do it either. In 103, Collatz is either ignoring or forgetting I actually responded to DLA's vote on me, and he continues pushing the point that DLA's new vote target didn't have time to respond to the vote. Again in 105, he can't see either Town or scum doing what DLA did. In 130, the idea that Collatz was just trying to pressure DLA is questionable and possibly a cop-out feeding off DLA's claimed playstyle, but it's not impossible that he did that. His last paragraph in 130 is 100% noob logic and his posts make it clear he's a noob, but he's also claimed some prior off-site experience. (Given his latest post about carry-over votes, I agree with BBT that it's likely he's trying to play the noob card here.) Once Collatz' read has been shot down by a few players and he backs down, we don't see him again until he sheeps the RM wagon.
DLA- I get that he could be a player who throws votes around to get reactions. I don't get how he can see himself as an obvious target and then think it's scummy that a noob like Collatz would jump on it. DLA sees Collatz' argument collapsing under the pressure and says it's a sign of his noobishness. It makes sense to try getting Collatz to explain why DLA's actions come from scum (CKD also does this in 113), but post 119 raises questions about DLA's stance here. When Collatz realizes what DLA did wasn't alignment indicative and backs down, DLA questions if a noob would have picked up on that by now. I thought the whole point of DLA pushing Collatz to explain why it's scummy was to get him to see it wasn't actually scummy, and it looks like DLA isn't dropping the scumread just because he convinced noobCollatz to see his point of view. Then in 132, he thinks Collatz is coming up with a retroactive explanation, but seems to just shrug it off. He's easing off on Collatz for willingness to cooperate. DLA doesn't really loosen his grip on Collatz for realizing he was wrong, but takes off the pressure in the same post that he says Collatz is retroactively explaining. DLA is acting oppositely of how Town should have acted in the situation. Also, later when he accused Otoila of setting himself up to jump off a wagon, Otoila pointed out that DLA did the same thing with Collatz, and I agree that DLA was, over time, setting himself up to drop his Collatz read. In 188 DLA does make some good points when he states the difference between Otoila's play and his own, and it's clear how someone could have seen Otoila's interaction as more of a shit throwing contest. That plus how scummy Otoila came out in their interaction gave me some doubt that DLA is scum, but I still think he's scum.
*I think it could be that one of DLA/Collatz is scum, but I think it's very likely there was scum distancing here. If they're scum together then I can esaily see the scenario of scumDLA doing something early that scumCollatz thought looked scummy and voted him to distance, and DLA pushing back, then both of then DLA jumping off the Collatz wagon rather than continue pushing and hard bus, while Collatz jumping off the wagon when he sees DLA being Townread and doesn't want to keep suspicion on his buddy. I did something pretty similar in my first scumgame on MS, so it's very possilbe to see noobscumCollatz distance early on scumDLA.
Otoila- In 144 he says DLA is grasping at straws with his push on Collatz. I can see him getting the impression, but given how Collatz acted first and how DLA was backing off, I think it's wrong. Otoila also made a fair point against DLA when he DLA accused him of distancing from his vote but DLA was doing the same with Collatz. It's in 184 that a couple things ping on Otoila. One is the statement in 167 that DLA was deflecting 168. The explanation given in 190 makes no sense, because having the question answered as a post is being made doesn't explain how the deflection accusation could come before the deflected post. The other thing that pings is the peace offering. I can understand a TownOtoila not wanting to get caught in more of a frustrating shitstorm with DLA, so it's something that could come from Town or scum Otoila. It could also be scumOtoila trying to get out of the spotlight. If there were just the peace offering thing, I would lean Town here. The whole deflection thing makes me think it's scumOtoila bullshitting an argument and then trying to save face afterwards.
Then there are some null reads.
Marcrell- Marcrell looks like someone who's nitpicky about RVS votes, and I think that's more likely to come from Town that wants to get early reads, but him treating CKD's vote as a lynch attempt and not a single vote makes me unsure about that.
MneumonicDevice- I still have no clue about MneumonicDevice. He's just been a non-presence in the game.
I would like to see Collatz, DLA, and Otoila hang, preferably in that order. I want to have Marcrell and MneumonicDevice figured out this Day phase.
@Mneumonic, I want to see some of your thoughts on the game.
Marcrell's still on V/LA so I'll have to wait for his return.
410 - Updated reads from you aswell, Random. You also look lik an excellent lynch for toDay.
434 - Mnemonic, it wasn't an inconsistency, as I pointed out. 421 is sarcasm, not deflection. What is it a deflection onto/from? What is the scum motivation for doing so?
438 - RC, your argument for not wanting to lynch Otolia in this post doesn't make much sense for me. Firstly, you assume that Otolia plays optimally as scum. Secondly, you said you didn't think scum would push the Random wagon. Why would scum not try to push one of the leading wagons?
449 - RC, how does RS' flip make you think Alch is town? You realise that, to scum, Reubus was a townie...right? I also don't see Alchemist's consistent and aggressive questioning. In fact, I don't see a whole lot from Alch at all.
Alch, would you agree with RC's assessment of your play?
I somewhat agree. The consistent questioning part makes sense, and I ask a lot of questions as part of my playstyle, but I don't think I've been aggressive this game. I was more firm in my opinion of why RM was a bad D1 lynch than in my questioning, but even then I wouldn't call it aggressive.
In post 475, Otolia wrote:So here we are with someone who was under scrutiny for being a huge liability who suddenly finds that the appropriate response to demands he start playing decently is to say a huge fuck-you to everyone and
joke
dayvig. So you would say he isn't concerned about being lynche, right ? So why in his next post does does he write this :
the fact that he is more concerned with stopping a mislynch than finding one makes me think town.
DLA - whilst his early play felt good, some of his play has felt odd recently. I'm starting to lean null-scum. More on this coming.
Otolia - entire play feels off. I just think that this could be a clash of play styles, but I don't see town motivation in his posting
CKD - I don't see scum being this much of a dickhead. VI.
Sorry, I have to go, will finish this later.
Note that he never finished his list ... Described himself as the potential mislynch and appears to be thankful to BBT for taking his sides. The gap between an act that can only be described as stupid (the dayvig attempt) and the calculated attempt to buddy BBT cannot be the result of a town-aligned player.
VOTE: Randommidget
This is what an RM reads list usually looks like. I don't know if he's concerned about being lynched or not (he's probably used to it by now), but he also thanked me for "being his knight in shining armor" after my interaction with Llamfluff. Do you think he was making a calculated attempt at buddying me too?
Lol @ otolia. I said a couple of hours ago I would finish it. bbt was buddying me more than I was buddying him. I didn't attempt to dayvig ckd, I made a joke implying that I wanted to kill CKD.
I'm going to post a readslist now bc I cant see an iso and I want to make sure I get everyone.
Collatz - scum. Seems to be trying to fit in and be paet of the town, jumps on wagons and sheeps whilst explaining the reasoning.
Device - null, needs to do more.
Coyote - town. Came in with a lot of work and didnt go after the easiest targets. He seems genuine.
Marcrell - null-town. Little contribution but I grt vibes from his posts. VOTE: collatz
I would like collatz or otolia to hang.
I think you and Collatz is a very likely possibility. Given Otoila's interaction with you, I think it's more likely you and him are opposite alignments, but the two of you being scum together isn't impossible.
We hang Collatz because he's the most likely scum. Then we hang DLA, especially if Collatz flips scum due to their interaction, and see his flip. A DLA scumflip would slightly raise the odds of townOtoila, but if I don't get a scumread on anyone else, then it's probably Otoila.
CKD was annoying him and he wishes he had a dayvig.
Now, forget about this and actually contribute to the game.
This post seemed minorly scummy to me, because of the bold wording, it feels to wishy-washy.
I don't know how you see this as wishy-washy.
Using both the phrases, "if I had to guess" and "I would say" seem like unnecessary wording, to imply doubt, which is fine, but having both of them right after each other seems wishy-washy
In post 456, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:438 - RC, your argument for not wanting to lynch Otolia in this post doesn't make much sense for me. Firstly, you assume that Otolia plays optimally as scum. Secondly, you said you didn't think scum would push the Random wagon. Why would scum not try to push one of the leading wagons?
449 - RC, how does RS' flip make you think Alch is town? You realise that, to scum, Reubus was a townie...right? I also don't see Alchemist's consistent and aggressive questioning. In fact, I don't see a whole lot from Alch at all.
I'm not assuming anyone is playing optimally... I just mean to say that I think Otolia would do X as scum. Whether that is an optimal move or not, that's in the eye of the beholder. randomidget was not a leading wagon at the time Otolia went after him, that was my point. Granted --and thanks in part to Otolia, you cannot deny-- randomidget became a leading wagon for the rest of D1 shortly after Otolia came down hard on him.
No, you misunderstand. Alchemist stuck to his guns with his RS vote even after me talking bad about it. I respected that. That RS flipped scum only makes me feel more confident that Alchemist is town for doing that. If RS had flipped town, then you necessarily have to be more skeptical of Alchemist's arrogance. Results are what counts here. As far as Alchemist being aggressive, see 69, 151, 187, 217, 218... and I could go on with specifics, but I am happy with his broad-minded approach to the game and his devil-may-care attitude. He's a good example of a poster that doesn't necessarily post a lot, but he gets things done in a smaller amount of posts/words than other people need. I'm very happy with him right now.
---
Alchemist 476 wrote:I may be misjudging his read on Otoila in that post since he asks Otoila to join a Marcrell wagon in 176.
If I think a player is scum, then I want the lynch to happen. I don't care if it consist's of scum, town, SKs, what have you... as long as it gets done. We can pick it apart the day after.
I'll look more into your DLA/Collatz thing, but I'm really afraid you're looking backwards instead of forwards. I got good vibes from those two yesterday, strong town-on-town vibes. I doubt I'll be changing my mind on that, especially when the only difference is two kind of predictable flips (and neither of which were mafia).
I didnt know today started, I kept checking to see if I had a mail and didnt check my subscriptions (until now). anyway, will catch up tomorrow I guess.
Mod, I know you had a timer, but in future a "the game started mail" would be cool.
Why didn't you bookmark?
I was in a rush opening a game so forgive me for not sending one!
~Mod
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
482 - Random, this reads list is painful. How is 'sheeping whilst explaining reasoning scummy'?
Your town-read on Marcrell is nowhere near justified either.
483 - Alch, I don't think it's very likely all 3 of Collatz/DLA/Otolia are scum. I still read as Collatz as town for his earlier play (he needs to start contributing though) and if there is scum in those three I think it's likely to be DLA.
486 - LOL, wtf is this shit? 'I want to town read you, but if you attack me, I have no choice but to assume you're not town'.
DLA looks like a fine ass lynch toDay.
489 - RC, you're wrong regarding Otolia and Random. Let me show you;
I still disagree with your reasoning on Alch but I have more important issues to press toDay.
You were the third person to comment on it, and your criticism is at best exaggerated. From my perspective Collatz came with a reasonable question and I could see myself asking the same in that position given that the votecount wasn't reset in the first post of the day. There's no reasonable reason for Collatz to "play the noob card".
In post 494, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:483 - Alch, I don't think it's very likely all 3 of Collatz/DLA/Otolia are scum. I still read as Collatz as town for his earlier play (he needs to start contributing though) and if there is scum in those three I think it's likely to be DLA.
486 - LOL, wtf is this shit? 'I want to town read you, but if you attack me, I have no choice but to assume you're not town'.
DLA looks like a fine ass lynch toDay.
489 - RC, you're wrong regarding Otolia and Random. Let me show you;
You're missing the point. I've liked Alchemist's play so far, and have had a town lean on him. However, this:
In post 476, Alchemist21 wrote:I would like to see Collatz, DLA, and Otoila hang, preferably in that order.
looks like a scumslip to me. Hence why I asked Alchemist whether he thought we were all scum together and he basically says yes, no and maybe in the same post. If scum, Alchemist appears to be keeping open all directions to go in, but from the previous quote his ulterior motive appears to be getting us lynched regardless of what happens.
BBT, you're right about Otolia being late on the randomidget wagon. I somehow missed that. Are you still adamant about random getting a pass? Or was that just for D1?
DLA, that's nowhere near a scumslip. I don't know how you can even come to that conclusion. It's quite obvious that he means to say that those are his top three scumreads in descending order... I don't want to speak for him, but that sentence implies nothing about you three being scum together or not.
I think a lot of our townreads are beating each other up while the real scum in Marcrell and mnemonic and possibly Otolia lurk. I think the Collatz case is really weak. Give Collatz a chance to come back into this game. The DLA case is marginally better, but neither of these guys should be lynched today...
In post 491, curiouskarmadog wrote:I didnt know today started, I kept checking to see if I had a mail and didnt check my subscriptions (until now). anyway, will catch up tomorrow I guess.
Mod, I know you had a timer, but in future a "the game started mail" would be cool.
Why didn't you bookmark?
I was in a rush opening a game so forgive me for not sending one!
~Mod
I did book mark, but only the main page loads. I just checked to see if I had a message, if I didnt see one, I keep on moving. The only reason I caught the game was because I went to check the timer and saw it was the Day Phase.
at any rate, no worries.
in regards to the game. I am slammed at work, it is very doubtful that I will be able to post anything worth reading until friday.
482 - Random, this reads list is painful. How is 'sheeping whilst explaining reasoning scummy'?
Your town-read on Marcrell is nowhere near justified either.
483 - Alch, I don't think it's very likely all 3 of Collatz/DLA/Otolia are scum. I still read as Collatz as town for his earlier play (he needs to start contributing though) and if there is scum in those three I think it's likely to be DLA.
486 - LOL, wtf is this shit? 'I want to town read you, but if you attack me, I have no choice but to assume you're not town'.
DLA looks like a fine ass lynch toDay.
489 - RC, you're wrong regarding Otolia and Random. Let me show you;
I still disagree with your reasoning on Alch but I have more important issues to press toDay.
495 - I can't really comment on it (Collatz asking about votes) further than I have already. When I can, I will.
DLA, can you show me what specifically you like about Alchemist's play D1?
496 - Random should be looked at toDay if he doesn't improve. We can't have him skating by for 2 Days.
RC, why do you think Mnemonic could be scum?
You seem...reluctant to call Otolia scum. It's giving me weird vibes.
498 - Mnemonic, I want you to vote me because it would seem I am your strongest scum-read. Therefore, I want you to commit to it.
Otherwise, it looks like you're posturing, so if my wagon somehow took off (lol, it won't), you can jump on at a more opportune time (L-2/L-1 for e.g) stating 'I've always thought BBT was scum from late D1' without coming under fire for pushing the wagon yourself.
If I'm wrong, and I'm not your top scum-read, who is and why aren't you voting for them?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
