Mini 1657 — Taylor Swift UPick — Game Over

[Marquis]

V O T E C O U N T

2 . 0 9

You made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter.
You are the best thing that’s ever been mine.

— "Mine",

Speak Now

(3)

Aristophanes

— killerjester, DarkLightA, Empking

(L-4)

(1)

Bookitty

— Espeonage

(L-6)

(0)

Elyse

—

(0)

Empking

—

(0)

Endless Possibilities

—

(0)

Espeonage

—

(0)

killerjester

—

(0)

LucianRoy

—

(0)

Not_Mafia

—

(4)

ika

— Endless Possibilities, Soren, Bookitty

(L-3)

(0)

Soren

—

(3)

DarkLightA

— Not_Mafia, LucianRoy, Elyse

(L-4)

(2)

Not Voting

— Aristophanes, ika

With

12

alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2015-04-17 15:15:00)

(Fri Apr 17 @ 15:15:00 EST).



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Awaiting prod response from:

Aristophanes

[Espeonage]

Do you know that Aristo doesn't have a reason?

I have no idea. Again not relevant.

What did you think of ika encouraging people to vote the Aristo wagon, apparently in anticipation of being the hammer, without contributing anything of value here?

I have meta that says he does that as town. I doubt it would hold up as conclusively town, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you. I actually did something similar [REDACTED] You can ask again later if you're interested.

Do you think Aristo's way of lurking was more offensive than Ika's way of lurking?

Again irrelevant, and again. I have no idea.

[Empking]

Meh.

VOTE: ika

Lurking to victory is not a strategy I want to reward.

So you move from somebody who has just been prodded?

Yes. I don't see a single way in which my vote on Aristo is going to be more effective than a prod from Marquis. Either Aristo is going to respond to the prod (at which point my vote will still be under my control to do with what I will) or he's not going to and he's going to be replaced. I would unvote anyway at that point to let the replacement read, so why waste time? My pressure vote is pointless once someone has been prodded. Marquis > Me.

Can you and Espeonage please explain your reasoning for squawking in such horror because I moved my vote? Because your logic is faulty at best.

If you assume prod=replacement then sure, but that's an odd thing to think.

[Bookitty]

If you assume prod=replacement then sure, but that's an odd thing to think.

It's not even necessary to assume that.

Aristophanes needs to post actual content or he's likely to be lynched, imo. If he's prodded and he doesn't deliver with something substantial, there's nothing stopping me from moving my vote right back. If I don't like what he posts regardless of its length or depth, then I can vote him again. If he chooses to replace out or is force-replaced for inactivity, that's not going to happen for at least a couple of days. Meanwhile my vote sits there useless.

In the meantime, I can use my vote to pressure someone else who has contributed next to nothing and who has indicated a wish to hammer the leading wagon (yeah, that's how I am interpreting the "two more votes" thing) to actually provide actual content. Already that's been more successful than just planting my vote on Aristo and watering the wagon with my tears and recriminations. Espeonage has finally graced us with his presence and expressed some opinions, no matter how misguided or opportunistic I might think they are. I am pretty sure that wouldn't have happened if my vote had just stayed on Aristo.

[Empking]

A 'pressure vote' provides no pressure, and waters down the efficacy of future votes as nobody can trust them to stick. [Were getting into theory now, so I'll drop it.]

[Aristophanes]

I will he here tonight. I promise.
So so sorry for my activity levels here

[killerjester]

BRACING FOR EPIC

[Bookitty]

A 'pressure vote' provides no pressure, and waters down the efficacy of future votes as nobody can trust them to stick. [Were getting into theory now, so I'll drop it.]

I don't want to bog down the thread, but I would like to talk to you about this after the game if possible. I think differently and I want to bounce my ideas off you since you have an opposing viewpoint.

Thanks!

[Soren]

Do you know that Aristo doesn't have a reason?

What did you think of ika encouraging people to vote the Aristo wagon, apparently in anticipation of being the hammer, without contributing anything of value here?

Do you think Aristo's way of lurking was more offensive than Ika's way of lurking?

I feel like you're just dodging the question about the validity of your meta read on ika.

[Soren]

If you assume prod=replacement then sure, but that's an odd thing to think.

It's not even necessary to assume that.

Aristophanes needs to post actual content or he's likely to be lynched, imo. If he's prodded and he doesn't deliver with something substantial, there's nothing stopping me from moving my vote right back. If I don't like what he posts regardless of its length or depth, then I can vote him again. If he chooses to replace out or is force-replaced for inactivity, that's not going to happen for at least a couple of days. Meanwhile my vote sits there useless.

In the meantime, I can use my vote to pressure someone else who has contributed next to nothing and who has indicated a wish to hammer the leading wagon (yeah, that's how I am interpreting the "two more votes" thing) to actually provide actual content. Already that's been more successful than just planting my vote on Aristo and watering the wagon with my tears and recriminations. Espeonage has finally graced us with his presence and expressed some opinions, no matter how misguided or opportunistic I might think they are. I am pretty sure that wouldn't have happened if my vote had just stayed on Aristo.

Though I do see a very bold townie mindset behind this.

[Bookitty]

I feel like you're just dodging the question about the validity of your meta read on ika.

I can't talk about all of it, so yeah, you're right there I'm sharing what I can.

[Elyse]

Stop distracting from DLA-scum thnx

[Soren]

I feel like you're just dodging the question about the validity of your meta read on ika.

I can't talk about all of it, so yeah, you're right there I'm sharing what I can.

If it helps in my greatest idea mafia game, the ika hydra I played with was a lurker and she was scum.

I don't know her town meta though.

[Bookitty]

You really don't have to take my word for it anyway, because I just remembered who pushed that ika-lurker-lynch in Drawn on Arrival

Ugh, I'm obviously not getting my lynch on BRO, so I'll have to compromise and actually read the game.
Mollie, how sure of you on this Ika read?

can remember what ika has said? are you feeling the beloved presence of ikaness in this thread? no?

he is probs scum then. if not I get to yell at him for dragging his feet in postgame so win win for me.

wtf why did that post.

ANYWAYS THIS IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY

ika is no shrinking violet in large games in fact I think he downright used to them. which is why your argument looks so bad.

I am scumreading him cos he is subdued and there is a lack of rolefishing in his posts. like i feel that town!ika wld be crawling all over mastina and you. is he? NO! i have actually learned a great deal from him and I am not seeing 1 thing from him that he has taught me.

I think PirateMollie has a really good handle on Ika's meta (way better than mine for sure). She thinks if he lurks, he's scum. He flipped scum in that game for sure.

[Espeonage]

That still doesn't prove anything. To use meta you have to be able to show that the meta is valid.

[Bookitty]

That still doesn't prove anything. To use meta you have to be able to show that the meta is valid.

That is nonsensical. People use meta all the time to develop their reads without proving them in some imaginary court of public opinion. I don't recall ordering you to sheep me, and I'm free to use whatever scumhunting methods I want. I don't have to prove that ika is scum to vote him any more than you had to prove Aristo was scum to vote him. Hell, a "gutread" can't be proven in ANY way and people vote based on those all the time. So I have no clue what you're on about.

In short, you're not the boss of me and you're not so big.

[Endless Possibilities]

town^

[Espeonage]

The point is that you are using reasoning that your own play is saying isn't always scummy but for this person, because of meta, is scummy for.

You ENTIRE case is built on meta. And for a case made ENTIRELY of meta to be valid, you need to be able to show that it is valid meta.

[Bookitty]

Where did I even make a case on Ika, Espeonage? I provided some information, I voted him, but I don't recall making a case. I think that you just saw me vote and had a serious over-the-top overreaction to it, but I'm fine with that because at least you're not lurking anymore.

I have nearly nothing BUT meta to use on Ika because he's been the lurkiest lurksack ever. But I still fail to see how my meta read is any of your concern anyway. You couldn't have much other than meta to DEFEND him on, so why are you bothering?

I can't vote you AND ika AND Aristo AND every other lurker in the game all at once. I think you know that, so saying I don't find it scummy just because I haven't voted you yet? Pretty reachy.

[Not_Mafia]

ika is a self admitted scum lurker I did a quick search of his posting history but anything I found I couldn't use and I don't have the time or inclination to trawl through all the noise to find a post about it.

We lynched Anti d1 for lurking without some sort of solid proof, Bookitty isn't scum for you not knowing ika's reputation as a lurker.

Regardless this is a dead end wagon. PLease join one of the 3 people who could actually get lynched

[ika]

im not lurking im jsut wanting a hammer.

[Not_Mafia]

Those are not mutually exclusive

[LucianRoy]

Boo'a votes are bad, and I think she's super scummy.
I'm really glad Esp popped in to pursue her.
I liked their little joust of reads. It showed me that Esp is actually quite town.
I'm still pinning my vote on DLA doe.
However, if Esp can continue this conversation with Boo, and maintain a very strong scum read on her, I'll be tempted to vote her.

[LucianRoy]

2 more votes, 2 more votes

Does he want to hammer himself?
Please don't tell me everyone in this game has a deathwish.

[Aristophanes]

Wait, why are people voting DLA and Ika? I don't get it!

I'm kidding.

I totally agree with Boo here and don't honestly see why everyone is saying the vote reason is so shitty.
In Dawn on Arrival Ika clearly displayed the lurkerscum tendency, and is clearly doing a similar thing here. Boo and many others mentioned this, including Mollie, who Boo has quoted here. I like this wagon.
VOTE: Ika

Espionage
I haven't been active lurking at all. I've literally not checked the thread. At all.
What is your actual case on me!?
I see that you think I'm scummy for active lurking without a reason, you then say that my having a reason would be irrelevant. It makes zero sense.
Also, as I said, I don't see why Boo is scummy, nor why her activity has warranted a vote.

I see people questioning how I could vote Anti on meta reasons without having read the last bit of the thread.
He had been doing this same shit all through the day phase, and I did a very quick skim to see if it had changed in what little time I had.
We caught scum, so I'm happy with the outcome.

Here's a readslist, since apparently I have been unclear and stuff.
Strong Town-lean: Bookitty, EP, KillJester, Lucian
Town-lean: Elyse, Soren
Null: Empking
Light Scum-lean: DLA, NotMafia
Scum-lean: Ika, Espionage