League of Legends (Old)

[Iecerint]

Like, not here, but on the broader league internet.

[quadz08]

Yeah, I love the fact that almost anything is playable

makin' me happeh

[Oman]

I love the tank meta and am annoyed at how vocally people are complaining about it.

Because everyone wants to be the solo carry and tank meta natural counters single assassin recking the whole team.

Tank meta is team meta

[PJ.]

That doesn't really have much to do with it because no one complained when top had a lot of strong tanks(which it still does) it's that for as long as I've been playing league (which has basically been since their was meta)the jungle has never been balanced. One type of guy has always been dominate and pushed everyone else out of the meta. Only two "damage" junglers are any good right now and both are still behind the top tier tanks. Basically jungle meta has been stale for 4 years, it's just stale in a different direction every year.

[Iecerint]

They just need to slightly buff Devourer now and figure out a version of Poacher's Knife that makes sense, I think.

[zoraster]

They're probably going to nerf skirmisher's saber pretty soon with its adoption in top lane too. Kind of a shame as it's interesting.

[PJ.]

Tell me more?

[mykonian]

toplane tank/bruiser who takes smite, farms up a storm, builds skirmishers cinderhulk then goes on to dominate 1v1's and teamfights alike lategame.

[Oman]

That's a huge investment including giving up tp or flash. Very interesting.

[zoraster]

yeah most seem to give up flash and use a champion with either an escape or a speed boost or something: hecarim, shyvanna and mundo are the ones I've heard most. It still requires playing somewhat safely in the opening minutes, but with a side that if you need to leave lane because the lane gets pushed you can jungle.

To be fair, I think this is one of those things that's more powerful in organized games (I think China and both EUCS and NACS have used it recently), but still seems viable in solo.

[quadz08]

I don't think it needs nerfing, to be honest - unless it become the Only Thing People Pick (but they also haven't nerfed flash in years, sooooo)

[PJ.]

They tend to nerf anything that isn't being used for its intended purpose. The flash example is weird because the game is actually balanced around flash. Changing flash or removing it would flip the game on its head.

[quadz08]

Yeah I know - my opinion on it not needing nerfing is not likely to be shared by rito

[GreyICE]

Okay, if you followed Dawngate (back before it was cancelled, le sigh) they had a really nifty idea that there could be roles that you picked in the pregame that would give you an advantage. So picking "Jungler" gave you more gold/xp from jungle camps. If you picked "laner" (not their name, but it was) you got more gold from killing minions. If you picked support you got passive gold when minions near you died. If you picked assassin, you got extra gold/xp from kills and assists.

It was really nifty because it let you actually buck the meta more than it enforced it. Like 2 junglers was fine, because you got enough extra gold/xp that you could keep up thanks to passive, without buffing the jungle to the point where the laners lived there. The usual was 2 laners/2 supports/jungle (it had 2 lanes) but if you wanted to be a roaming assassin or something, that worked great too. Each role could be balanced separately.

Riot has been trying to do this same thing with items. It's just not working. The items do NOT communicate roles well to new players, and laners keep nabbing them, resulting in the jungle items getting nerfed to stop the laners from taking them, which in turn just makes junglers weaker.

I won't sit here mourning the passing of Dawngate, but Riot needs to just finally own up, and put the roles as choices in the interface - Support, Laner, Jungler. Cut 5 gold off minions, bake it into the laner role. Pick one of the support bonuses, bake it into the support role. Take the +30 Gold, make it scale up to 30 (so 15 in the early game, scaling to 30 by 10 minutes), bake into jungler role. Then you can balance each role separately, and newbies will have a good idea of what to do in the game, rather than landing on Summoner's Rift and being like... "dafuq?"

Just my thoughts. Between the role items and the horrible morass that is the vision game (made worse if they add Mandrake Ward) there are parts of this game that are literally impenetrable to new players.

[MystoNeko]

They tend to nerf anything that isn't being used for its intended purpose. The flash example is weird because the game is actually balanced around flash. Changing flash or removing it would flip the game on its head.

Funnily enough the person who saved flash back then absolutely hates it and never uses it but even they agree that it's vital to the game as it stands right now =D

[zoraster]

do people really have a problem with flash?

[MystoNeko]

do people really have a problem with flash?

it used to be really annoying but at this point it's pretty balanced

[GreyICE]

do people really have a problem with flash?

The major problem with Flash is that 99% of the time, the difference between having "Two Summoner Spells" and "Flash+1" is minimal. This creates a "false choice" where it looks like there's two options, but in reality there's only one. I believe Riot even talked about baking in Flash to everyone's kit, but ultimately they haven't chosen to address this for a while.

Gradually buffing other summoner spells is an option, of course, and they've been doing that (Teleport, Ghost, Smite, Heal) but so far the utility of Flash is just too high. And at the end of the day, Flash enables aggressive play. Although CC chaining was a great nerf to Flash to stop it from being "get out of jail free" card in all circumstances (flashing during a stun chain was pretty BS)

[zoraster]

As long as there's diversity for one of the slots I don't really mind, but there are some niche picks that don't take flash. I think they could do a little to make a couple of the summoner's spells more appealing at least, particularly Barrier and Cleanse (add armor/MR to barrier, allow cleanse to work on basically everything, particularly suppression). I'm not sure Clairvoyance or Clarity are worth trying to improve.

[MystoNeko]

do people really have a problem with flash?

The major problem with Flash is that 99% of the time, the difference between having "Two Summoner Spells" and "Flash+1" is minimal. This creates a "false choice" where it looks like there's two options, but in reality there's only one. I believe Riot even talked about baking in Flash to everyone's kit, but ultimately they haven't chosen to address this for a while.

Gradually buffing other summoner spells is an option, of course, and they've been doing that (Teleport, Ghost, Smite, Heal) but so far the utility of Flash is just too high. And at the end of the day, Flash enables aggressive play. Although CC chaining was a great nerf to Flash to stop it from being "get out of jail free" card in all circumstances (flashing during a stun chain was pretty BS)

They've nerfed Ghost a lot which makes flash the go-to summoner on pretty much every champion except for maybe Hecarim and Shaco right now.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

if cleanse works on suppression suppression champions become terrible?

[zoraster]

If everyone on a team is using cleanse to deal with suppression champions, I think you've done your job already. Plus, just like Flash and teleport, these things do have significantly longer cooldowns than the suppression abilities.

[PJ.]

Can't heal through a wall, can't exhaust away from sticky tank, can't ignite away from an assassin trying to do you, and teleport takes a month to get you anywhere and can be interrupted.

[FakeGod]

Ghost-Smite is pretty standard on jungle Olafs

[zoraster]

Can't heal through a wall, can't exhaust away from sticky tank, can't ignite away from an assassin trying to do you, and teleport takes a month to get you anywhere and can be interrupted.

pardon?