Mini 1655: Delicious Mafia (Game Over, Perfect Scum Win!)

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

[goodmorning]

From what I know of House, I thought he was capable of things other than AtE.

[SilverWolf]

It's House being town though. He has a very good scum game. I don't think he'd pull this stunt as scum. I was trying to figure out why that game he linked rang some bells for me with his comments to me early this day. Due to RL issues, I shouldn't be too surprised that I'm distracted and didn't remember but this game finished not that long ago so I should have.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=61123

They evolve as the game progresses, you know that. When do my reads

not

bounce around as town?

Unless I'm scum, then I pretty much follow a set trajectory. I have to work on that and build more "paranoia" into my scum game. But that's enough from me about internal strats.

OK, So this is true. His reads bounce around as town and so do mine. The rest of these quotes I'm going to spoiler but they are pretty much back up exactly what he was saying in this game here 2524, 2529 and telling GM here 2543.

Spoiler:

Go ahead, lynch the newb townie. It's SOOOO scummy to ask questions and SOOO scummy to sheep town leaders.

Just be sure to lynch House tomorrow. He's your scum.

OMG, House if you are scum, I'm gonna be pissed. Of course, you'll kill me tonight for sure if you are.

What makes you think this because town is going to need help to lynch him if he's scum and I'm not here to do it.

You see this? This right here?

This is why I'm an ass towards you. This is why I have such a hard damned time working with you.

You spend the entire fucking day phase working with me on a lynch, then one single post from anybody else, people you haven't played with nearly as much as me, even, and you 180 against me.

Who the hell wants to deal with that all the time?

Go ahead, lynch the newb townie. It's SOOOO scummy to ask questions and SOOO scummy to sheep town leaders.

Just be sure to lynch House tomorrow. He's your scum.

OMG, House if you are scum, I'm gonna be pissed. Of course, you'll kill me tonight for sure if you are.

What makes you think this because town is going to need help to lynch him if he's scum and I'm not here to do it.

You see this? This right here?

This is why I'm an ass towards you. This is why I have such a hard damned time working with you.

You spend the entire fucking day phase working with me on a lynch, then one single post from anybody else, people you haven't played with nearly as much as me, even, and you 180 against me.

Who the hell wants to deal with that all the time?

You must of missed where I said this then:

Firesong could be throwing WIFOM at us to give the exact response I gave him. To point the finger at House.

I didn't miss it. The fact of the matter it is irrelevant what Firesong flips. it doesn't change my role pm.

You've been peachy keen with my play thus far, but the second the lynchee cries about it, you go all paranoid like it's RVS voting all over again.

That shit gets tiresome.

I just had to be sure. You make me paranoid. If it bothers you that much, you don't have to play this game with me if you don't want to.

Therein lies the rub. I do want to, I just wish you weren't as skittish as a cat in a bathtub.

I mean during the early game, yeah I can see it. It is what it is... but you should have me sorted by now.

Ask Titus how she pulls it off. She can figure out my alignment within 1/2 (r/l) days.

Bottom line, this is something he does as town. He also did something similar in an off-site game where he got angry with me for doubting my townread on him and he was town in that game as well.

Also, what I said in this post still stands when I went through his entire ISO to try to figure him out. 2276. The only reason I doubted him is because of the claims and the NK choices but House is right, I do tend to be paranoid enough to change my mind after hard townreading him because he's fooled me before as scum and because he acts townie as scum as well. But it is time for me to make a decision here and move on. House is a townread of mine. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on this issue.

[Bookitty]

I have very minimal experience with Boonskiies, but I really HATE his refusal to read this game (or to understand it, at a minimum) and his backhanded insults to SilverWolf about what I think has been pretty good play in this game.

Frustration over being suspected and not being able to defend against accusations that are so vague as to be nearly nonexistent? That I understand and empathise with. But Boonskiies isn't in that position. Instead, his attitude seems to be one of smug condescension even though it's obvious he hasn't actually bothered to read the game.

As SilverWolf has said, we were moving votes to pressure lurkers. We didn't SAY that we were doing that because that would undercut the entire point of the exercise, but it was pretty obvious for anyone who was actually following along with the game imo. Boonskiies wasn't bothering to do that; instead, he came out loaded for bear and guns blazing to attack everyone on his wagon except the masons. He accused me of pushing TN's lynch, something I think is pretty evident as the opposite of true and something Boon had done himself earlier in the game. He didn't even know that House had soft-claimed vengeful.

It's possible SilverWolf was left alive SPECIFICALLY to make her doubt all her own reads. All of that is WIFOM. Yet Boon seems to be really certain that the scum killed Kop because SilverWolf was wrong. I looked at Kop's ISO (to be fair, I didn't reread it in context, so maybe I missed something) but their reads seem to be pretty much in sync. I don't know what was said in the mason chat but the scum wouldn't know that either, so that part is irrelevant.

Boon seems to be spending the majority of his time trying to break down SilverWolf's confidence in her own reads, regardless of what they are. SW is a strong town leader and I think scum would HAVE to work that angle to try to undermine her voice and to reduce her credibility with town. I don't like this AT ALL. It's made worse by the fact that all of Boon's reads seem to be based in OMGUS regarding a strategy that was intended to elicit content from non-contributors. He's not reading the game, or he wouldn't think that I was pushing TN. Heck, he's not even reading my ISO while pushing me as a likely scum.

I still want to wait for Saul to explain what happened. But right now I'm thinking:

Who doesn't have to read the game?
Who typically adopts a condescending attitude toward people actually trying to play the game?
Who benefits by discrediting SilverWolf?

And it makes me think that Boon is scum.

[goodmorning]

@SilverWolf: If it's something he knows he does as Town (spoiler: it is) then that doesn't preclude the possibility of him altering his meta to do it as Scum.

Regardless, I don't like it. I think there are probably better places to go on this game Day though.

p-edit: It's not impossible.

[T S O]

I am V/LA for a week from now. So sorry.

Will say I am on page 101 and am suspicious of fuck as Saul.

[SilverWolf]

It's possible SilverWolf was left alive SPECIFICALLY to make her doubt all her own reads. All of that is WIFOM. Yet Boon seems to be really certain that the scum killed Kop because SilverWolf was wrong. I looked at Kop's ISO (to be fair, I didn't reread it in context, so maybe I missed something) but their reads seem to be pretty much in sync. I don't know what was said in the mason chat but the scum wouldn't know that either, so that part is irrelevant.

We were in sync for the most part with our reads and voting. We discussed everything in the PT first. I think this was obvious to anyone paying attention to the game regardless of whether or not they read the mason PT so I really don't see how anyone can determine why one of us was killed over the other with the certainty that Boon seems to have.

Boon seems to be spending the majority of his time trying to break down SilverWolf's confidence in her own reads, regardless of what they are. SW is a strong town leader and I think scum would HAVE to work that angle to try to undermine her voice and to reduce her credibility with town. I don't like this AT ALL. It's made worse by the fact that all of Boon's reads seem to be based in OMGUS regarding a strategy that was intended to elicit content from non-contributors. He's not reading the game, or he wouldn't think that I was pushing TN. Heck, he's not even reading my ISO while pushing me as a likely scum.
I still want to wait for Saul to explain what happened. But right now I'm thinking:
Who doesn't have to read the game?
Who typically adopts a condescending attitude toward people actually trying to play the game?
Who benefits by discrediting SilverWolf?
And it makes me think that Boon is scum.

I noticed this yesterday when he did it and last night. I'm not sure what Boon has to gain as town by trying to discredit me. As scum, he has more to gain by that tactic.
I also don't like how he was only picking up his play when he got pressure and then slacking off when the pressure eased. He's basically been doing what you said by OMGUSing anyone voting for him outside of the masons. He is not reading or paying attention to the game clearly. Also, he has some inconsistencies in his play and all his strange self-meta talk and excuses for not playing for awhile there was looking pretty scummy as well. He also seemed to have kind of a give up attitude when he was wagoned and claimed VT. Not sure if that part is scummy though because town can give up like that as well.

But yeah, Boon could be scum.

[Lucky2u]

It's House being town though. He has a very good scum game.

This physically hurt me to read... Is it really that much of a mystery why you were left alive after saying stuff like this?

[SilverWolf]

You know I'm getting this overwhelming feeling that I just can't win no matter what I say. First House beats me up for doubting my townread of him, then stomps off in a fit. Then Boon says it's obvious that I'm still alive because I suck at this game basically and then Lucky, says my House read is painful and it's no wonder I'm still alive for having it.

You see? Everything I am doing is wrong to someone right now. Is this just earnest town frustration with me and House is scum and I'm blind? Is it scum manipulation by Lucky and Boon and House is town? Is House frustrated town with my changing read on him or is he using scum manipulative AtE to guilt me into townreading him which BTW is kind of a shitty thing to do IMO.

meh...............................I don't even know anymore. It makes me want to prod dodge until the day is done and hope I'm killed overnight.

I feel utterly useless right now. And yeah, it may look like AtE but I'm town so deal with it.

[Zebulin]

Silverwolf; (a suggestion) stop listening to everyone trying to influence your reads and take a break from the game for a day. Calm your mind. You're not easy to manipulate from what I've read, but you are definitely in a more vulnerable state right now than you are normally.

[Zebulin]

what is this scummy post
House I thought you were better than this

If we get a confirmed townie, your going to follow them in whereever they choose to go, and that's what something scum do in my experience of my time of playing mafia.

Why would scum follow confirmed town instead of kill them?

During the day?

Why don't you learn to shut the fuck up when you're not being talked to?

Fucking annoying how some dumbass has to come clodding along whenever I'm trying to interact with somebody.

[SilverWolf]

Here's Kop's last reads before he died:

Let's hope Saul is thinking along the lines and aims for one of our mentions. I'm half glad he didn't announce who he was shooting, because if they somehow blocked it, they know it would go back on him. If there is no 2 deaths then Saul is gone, and he knows that.
T S O, I'm going to push hard for, Boonskiies following second. Bookitty I'm not sure about.

I'll just push for T S O, Boonskiies and Lucky, see what I can muster up.

Saul will have a lot to answer for, if there isn't a second shot, tbf

Bottom line, from dead town, scumteam of T S O, Boonskiies, and Lucky.

I'll do my reads a little later. Just posting this here now.

[Aeronaut]

vc 3.2

Votecount 3.2

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

House -

Boonskiies, Lucky2u

(L-3)

Not Voting:

Silverwolf, Bookitty, Goodmorning, T S O, Zebulin, Saul Goode

Mod Notes:

~ T S O is V/LA next Sunday
~ House is V/LA until Wednesday
~ Food Queue:

Stroganoff, Freshly Prepared Ramen, Banana Split, Fruit Smoothie

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2015-04-23 05:30:00)

[Boonskiies]

HOLY FUCK! Bookitty is the biggest scumfuck ever this game, and SilverWolf is yet again being manipulated by it. Why the fuck as scum would I have any incentive to argue a mason who was SCUM READING ONE OF MY MAIN SCUM READS! God fucking damn. Ignorance is annoying, but it's not actually ignorance, it's just Bookitty being scum. Bookitty could have said her EXACT same argument as a way to push for a town read on me. Misrepping to the fuckest infinity.

VOTE: Bookitty

House is still scum, but Bookitty is the scum who is controlling this game.

[House]

HOLY FUCK! Bookitty is the biggest scumfuck ever this game, and SilverWolf is yet again being manipulated by it. Why the fuck as scum would I have any incentive to argue a mason who was SCUM READING ONE OF MY MAIN SCUM READS! God fucking damn. Ignorance is annoying, but it's not actually ignorance, it's just Bookitty being scum. Bookitty could have said her EXACT same argument as a way to push for a town read on me. Misrepping to the fuckest infinity.

VOTE: Bookitty

House is still scum, but Bookitty is the scum who is controlling this game.

Fuck yeah. I can go for this.

VOTE: BooKitty

[Bookitty]

HOLY FUCK! Bookitty is the biggest scumfuck ever this game, and SilverWolf is yet again being manipulated by it. Why the fuck as scum would I have any incentive to argue a mason who was SCUM READING ONE OF MY MAIN SCUM READS! God fucking damn.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I never said you were arguing with her. I said you were being condescending and patronising in what looks like some effort to discredit SilverWolf in the eyes of town. I note that Lucky2U has chimed in to support your attempt, too.

I am amused, however, at your characterisation of me as this evil genius scum. I don't think anyone has ever said anything like that about me before, so that made me happy. Thank you.

You've been wrong about a lot, Boonskiies, so let me outline your misreps in this game:

1. I thought TN was town. I wasn't absolutely sure, so I didn't fight as hard as I should have. But anyone who has actually read the game would know that I didn't think TN was scum, I didn't support his lynch and that I said so repeatedly. If you'd actually read my ISO or the rest of the game, you'd know that TN was a guy at a minimum because of all of us referring to him as "him" or "he". You didn't even know that.

2. I hate lurkers. They make this game hard to play because they give nothing on which to base a read. I went with SilverWolf's plan to pressure lurkers, first TN, then you. It wasn't until ToDay when you started trying to discredit SilverWolf that I became convinced that you were scum. Your certainty that Kop was killed because SilverWolf was wrong in her reads makes no sense, since SilverWolf herself said that she and Kop were on the same page and I didn't find any outlier suspicions that Kop expressed in this thread. Your hysterical OMGUS yesterday was based on pressure votes in an effort to stop lurkers from lurking. It worked in part, but you still need to read the thread.

I also don't like that you moved your vote off House as soon as you could after you were told he was a vengeful townie, something that you should have known already. That's not a misrep; it's just an observation that doesn't make me feel all snuggly puppies and kittens about your alignment either.

@MOD:

Could we have a prod on Saul Goode and Elusive, please?

[SilverWolf]

@MOD:

Could we have a prod on Saul Goode and Elusive, please?

Zebulin replaced elusive. Saul is usually gone one weekends.

I am wondering about about House, Boon, Lucky scumteam right now because I really don't like the manipulation they've used since the day started. It seems off to me.

I do need to hear what Saul has to say first before solidifying the above though.

[goodmorning]

I feel like I should be able to get something off the Boon and Bookitty but I haven't.

[Bookitty]

Zebulin replaced elusive. Saul is usually gone one weekends.

Thanks, SilverWolf. I had forgotten about Zebulin; I remember thinking he was town for some reason, so I need to go back and reread that slot. I am busy this afternoon but I'll look at it when I can.

[SilverWolf]

Well, if Boon is scum, then I don't think Bookitty is. I hate saying things like that with no flip but they have been going after each other a good part of the game in a way that doesn't look like scum distancing. I am not seeing how Bookitty's theory makes her scum since I've sort of been feeling the same way.

If Lucky strongly believes House is scum and I'm wrong, he should be trying to convince me of that but his push on House is extremely weak and mostly revolves around trying to get me to change my mind.

Boon has been calling House scum for awhile but mostly just for House's wagon position and I'm not sure he even voted for him until today and now he's not any more. Boon's OMGUS reads this game are a little excessive as well.

House has also been willing to go after Bookitty at every opportunity and also was after Boon for awhile yesterday as well.

Also, Boon is scumreading Lucky as well but wasn't scumreading Ozgin when he did that quickhammer.

I'm not sure what to make of all this yet but it is something to think about. I feel like there may be a connection here but I can't figure it out for sure and I think I need to re-read these parts of the game when I have time. I also feel like some of the voting in this game is hard to analyze because Kop and I going after/voting people makes it easier for others to come along for the ride so I'll have to see if anyone was doing that excessively or not.

T S O has pushed every mislynch wagon so he could be wrong town or scum trying to get the mislynches through. It's hard to say because I thought Wrong Song and tn were summy as well. They are pushes either town or scum would be interested in which makes this hard to analyse.

Zebulin is pretty null. I was thinking elusive was town but has a lot of fluff posting so I'm not even sure on that read any more. This spot is null.

Still think Oddmusic was town and GM hasn't done anything to make me think otherwise. Saul read town but not taking his shot is just off, period. Unless he was blocked.

[Zebulin]

On page 40, scumteam looks like Boonskiies House ??? (probably a lurkerslot) from manipulation.

Boon vs Bookitty is probably TvM.

[Saul Goode]

So Saul-why didn't you take your shot? This is my number one question because being the vig, not being killed and not taking your shot both nights makes you my number one suspect right now.

Meh. I lied. I'm quite obviously not a vig.

*shrug*

I was trying to draw the NK away from the masons. That said, I think the fact I *AM* alive means that the scum team wasn't too worried about where I was likely to shoot. And that has value.

[Saul Goode]

By Saul's on admission, he should have taken a shot last night.

Maybe he did?

Do we know for sure that he didn't at this point?

Yes. It is now confirmed. Also, if you look at the way I worded my post, I think you see where I said I would have to shoot N2 - the implication being IF I were a vig. Again, sorry but just trying to draw a NK.

[Bookitty]

I was trying to draw the NK away from the masons. That said, I think the fact I *AM* alive means that the scum team wasn't too worried about where I was likely to shoot. And that has value.

What value do you think it has? I read over your ISO and you were really careful not to narrow down your choices much and even said that you knew how to play your role when discussion was at its peak. So how do you think it's going to help us now?

[Saul Goode]

Yeah, I was thinking roleblocker was a possibility. We already have a doc, a tracker and two Masons outed on the town side. We know those for sure. Saul claims vig, and that's huge power on the town side. A roleblocker makes sense on the scum side (and some other power too) to balance that power.

That's what I was thinking and that's why I wanted to wait and see if Saul said that. I didn't want to spoon-feed it to him, though, but that's already happened now.

I was thinking there could be a roleblocker as well. Maybe I've been drawing his attention in an effort to make me look bad when I couldn't provide a kill? *shrug* Don't know but at least I potentially wasted their resources until today.

At this point I think it's better to be honest so people that use game mechanics and setup spec to game solve are at least working with more accurate info.