13p Normal [TM2015]

[Save The Dragons]

Can you handle the sweetness? Look at all those cute and cuddly and sweet adorable avatars...and...uh...that fiery one too...

Anyway...

[Save The Dragons]

dragons breath fire - fire is bad - fire can kill- scum can kill - scum is bad
Someone who wants to save something that can kill with fire?

This guy literally flies around and delivers mail. And look at that smile. He's cute and cuddly and he's delivering the mail and he's all like "I'm still a fucking badass."

Are you anti mail, hmm?

[Save The Dragons]

Okay serious vote time

Original Roll String: 1d13

1 13-Sided Dice: (11) = 11

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Sleepykrew

[Save The Dragons]

am I even in this game?

okay good

[Save The Dragons]

Hey I want to lynch someone who's antidragon as much as the next guy but I have no idea where you got that so I'm going to need an explanation with letters. and pictures.

[Save The Dragons]

Maybe I just believe in the sanctity of the random vote stage but the only reason I'd vote him at this point would be the dragon hate.

[Save The Dragons]

@Save - what part of his actions is protected by the "sanctity" of RVS?

Well, since you said this:

though it is spearheaded by a derp vote whom I would also be fine voting.

I'm not convinced you understand what RVS is.

Maybe you have confidence to sort through random clutter and solve the game from one post, I don't and I certainly don't believe anyone can. I don't see Jason's antics as increasing the probability he is scum.

[Save The Dragons]

For me

I get really excited about a game

But you have to wait, right? You sign up, for team mafia we signed up several weeks in advance. I always think about what I'm going to say before I enter, before I even have an alignment.

So I like to come in guns blazing and do crazy stuff and post pictures and vote people that I know and roll dice and all sorts of stuff.

RVS is the gateway to the game, it's where players first get to sniff out each other and cut loose before they get serious.

Ceph has informed me he thinks Jason was trying too hard. I don't know. It's possible, but I totally see myself entering a game and voting for several people, doing crazy things, w/e.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get information from RVS, I'm saying I disagree with this assessment of Jason's post and the reason is I could easily ascribe it to a null tell of a person being goofy in RVS.

[Save The Dragons]

Thor:

Do you typically imply people are stupid when they have a different opinion than you? Because I'm not really seeing why we aren't just having a fundamental difference of opinion here.

You seem to be misunderstanding me so I'll try again.

I am not jumping on your wagon cuz I disagree with it. Does that make more sense?

[Save The Dragons]

I'm a little put of by the fact that Dragons is excited to play the game but isnt willing to help move us into the actual game.

I don't see how I'm not. If I were to join on the jason wagon I would be dishonest. I have no reason to move my vote quite yet.

What I am doing is trying to figure out Thor, trying to figure out your motivation based on your blatant sheeping without your own commentary and your nitpick shots like the post quoted, and thinking about the sleepykrew wagon that formed from my die roll.

[Save The Dragons]

Since you conveniently ignore this:

I'm not saying it's impossible to get information from RVS, I'm saying I disagree with this assessment of Jason's post and the reason is I could easily ascribe it to a null tell of a person being goofy in RVS.

[Save The Dragons]

Unvote

[Save The Dragons]

Doing "absolutely nothing" is anti-town. Even in the third post of the game, you could've at least cast a vote. That would've helped.

Kind of disagree with this. Again, I'm not so certain that people's actions in RVS can be so easily analyzed and sussed for alignment. Doing nothing in the third post of the game seems pretty harmless to me.

[Save The Dragons]

Thanks! I think so too...especially that Cephrir guy : 3

I think your team is cool though your guys's name is a little weird.

I'm not really sure. I think people can get set in their ways. I think it's a weird thing to attack though.

Thor, I hate to repeat the point I brought up in 40, but do you realize you completely ignored the post that answered your question 24 just so you could harp on the fact I used the "sanctity" without definition? Is your intent to libel me?

[Save The Dragons]

I didn't like the multiple posts in the span of a few minutes that could have easily been put in one post though.

How is how I format my posts alignment related?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't really see you trying to figure out Micc's motivation. You didn't ask him a question until now. So how are you trying to sort out his motivation?

I'm thinking about it.

[Save The Dragons]

I also snicker at the fact you think you're the reason why the SK wagon formed and that it couldn't have just been random instead.

I'm not sitting here trying to take credit for it; a wagon literally formed and it started with a die roll, I never implied it was BECAUSE of my die roll.

But it is weird that two people just added their votes onto SleepyKrew, that is all.

[Save The Dragons]

Depends on their opinion - but, yes, people's thoughts tends to qualify my belief in how brilliant or silly I find them. I think...everyone does this?
Also, on a very broad scale - by definition people would tend to think people who disagree with them are dumb. People who think people that agree with them are dumb would be calling themselves dumb, which is kind of dumb.

I find this question kind of dumb.

I disagree, I think people are capable of having a different opinion than I am and still be smart, but really this is neither here nor there. My point is that I have a different opinion, you aren't validating that, and I'm not sure where that comes from.

I am not jumping on your wagon cuz I disagree with it. Does that make more sense?

That's different than your initial commentary of saying what he said was okay because "RVS".
Do you disagree with it for any particular reasons - or just "RVS".
Because if only "RVS" then, yeah, I think you need to defend that belief.

I disagree with the wagon because I don't think that his goofy post makes him scummy. I don't think I'm being unclear at all with this viewpoint.

[Save The Dragons]

You distinctly said "MY" dice roll.

because I literally rolled the die? I don't see how that still implies I meant that I was the grand propagator of the wagon, I'm literally stating a series of events.

[Save The Dragons]

But it is weird that two people just added their votes onto SleepyKrew, that is all.

So that does not fall under "sanctity" in your mind?
I repeat my need to understand sanctity.

I don't seem to be voting for or attacking the two players who voted for SleepyKrew so I'm not sure I understand why you think that does or doesn't imply sanctity.

I've repeated myself many times. I don't know how much clearer I can make myself. I have a different read than you do on Jason and I'm starting to think that you're being intentionally dense. I don't think that people are immune from suspicion, but I also don't think that I'm going to catch scum from one post, and I certainly don't think you will, no offense. That's extremely unlikely. I don't think his post looks like what you think it is, partially because it occurred in RVS. You are certainly allowed to draw reads from RVS and whatever as you like, I have not in recent memory, and I think a lot more can be derived from the discussion that stems after RVS than saying "this RVS post looks fishy."

So I'm done with this topic, and would appease you to reread my posts if you are still unclear.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Micc

[Save The Dragons]

I am sorry, Malakittens. I'm not trying to be belligerent, I'm trying to clarify what I meant.

My games as of late have been characterized of me being angry and fighting people and it has made me feel a lot worse about myself as a person. I do not appreciate being talked down to. It is clear we are not jiving, Thor, but if you are town I would appreciate you pack up the attitude if you are unable to understand me.

[Save The Dragons]

Save The Dragons, there's a reasonably established argument that dice-voting in RVS is anti-town.
Were you aware of this already?
What do you think of it?

I do not know what the argument is so I have no opinion. I do not see much of a difference between me rolling a die and me saying "hey SK! What's up bud! Imma vote you now" or me saying "I hate people who's names start with the letter J, so it's time to vote Jason."

pedit: micc has two votes.

[Save The Dragons]

@Fenchurch: I feel that there is much discussion about what I think about that post that would just be irrelevant. So what do you think about my decision to die roll?

I don't think throwaway posts with cute pictures in them helps move the game forward.
I don't see rolling a dice for a RVS vote as moving the game forward.

Are you saying you've never done anything odd or random in the RVS?

What should I do about this? Show you town examples where I enter a game and do random things? Look at your meta and find out if every single post you've made moves the game forward?

I assumed you were comparing my play to yours, which was, before that post, sheeping.

Ill concede to you trying to maybe figure out Thor even I don't think the one post you addressed at him at this point was particularly probing.

A scum in a position of authority like Thor might seek to discredit other people. Thor has already appealed to his authoritative nature to discredit me. By calling him out I can figure out if he's closed-minded town or scum trying to slowly build a mislynch on me. I would not be surprised if he threw his hands up and voted me in the next couple posts of his.

And I don't see you actively trying to figure me out...unless this post counts...but that would screw up the timeline.

I was not actively doing so in thread, no, I threw that in there because as I was typing I realized your post made me go "hmmm"

[Save The Dragons]

Unvote Micc

[Save The Dragons]

If i did it was probably with the intent to get the game moving. If you want to look into my meta then be my guest.

Well you probably don't have to worry about me doing that, ain't nobody got time for that

I'm not going to get the game moving with every post I make. And I'll do it as town and I'll do it as scum. I play this game to have fun.

Does that mean you have a scum read on him? Or am I jumping to the wrong conclusion?
If it is a scum read, what is it based on?

I think I'm still waiting to see how our drama plays out

fair enough i guess. Are you still in this "hmmm" state of mind? I don't understand the unvote and how it ties in to your read on me.

I think my vote was reactionary. I want to think more about you and I don't think that you and Thor are scum together (and I'd like to consider Thor some more). I think I remember liking 86; my problem was a perceived double standard and your response seemed genuine.

You received a townread from one of my teammates so that's also a plus.

[Save The Dragons]

@Fenchurch: I feel that there is much discussion about what I think about that post that would just be irrelevant. So what do you think about my decision to die roll?

I really am curious what you've gained from asking me about it.

[Save The Dragons]

was something other than him directly interacting with STD? at the very least, I know you saw the second post bc you outright quoted it.

tbf 27 probably doesn't have the intent of interacting with me.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm looking over it now.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm bothered by malakittens's language; there's a giddy confidence in there (like Light from Death Note, or I guess early books Queen Cersei)

Like something like this is almost dismissive:

If you could flesh that out it would be grand.

I'm not really sure why, but I don't like this, although, it's not where it's super scummy persay. It just might be because some players, such as me, believe we are out of RVS so trying to draw back in feels off. Is there any comments that you would like to make in regards of current happenings in thread?

I keep coming back to this, perhaps I believe in the sanctity of RVS, a happy place where you can come in and throw your vote down while you're getting your bearings in the game without fear of being harangued...okay I'm being overly dramatic, but I suppose I fail to see how one person RVSing is going to successfully draw us back into the RVS.

I think her stance on Micc (50) is hypocritical - she calls him out for taking jabs but not interacting, when he for the most part was and she explicitly unvotes in that post (her vote was supposed to be on Micc) without making much of a hard push on him.

The problem is Micc did sheep Thor in the opening post. After talking with Micc I am confident he holds a similar stance so it makes more sense but at the time there was nothing really to indicate why he sheeped. At the time of her post, yeah, he asked me a question, then 27 which actually is rather open ended, but I'm not certain that I would say he was interacting enough for her accusation not to be justified. The unvote seems like a mistake.

(56) is a really easy throwaway excuse for scum to use when they want an easy way out of pressure.

The first part of it does kind of bother me. The use of "I didn't like" (from an earlier post) I suppose could be a personal preference, but it is used later by her (and I believe commonly in mafia setting) to refer to something as being suspicious. In 56 she amends her "I didn't like" with a "I don't really care" which is odd.

The second part, eh. I think Malakittens and I were just talking about two slightly different but coincidental events. It didn't really make sense at the time but I think I understand why she said it now that I've looked back at her explanation.

now with that out of the way, why do you think I'm supposedly misrep'ing you here? even if it was clear that's what happened (it's not),

I agree it wasn't clear what happened.

you also ignored the remainder of what I pointed out: that you're making a whole bunch of neutral sounding posts but not making any sort of hard push on anyone. you supposedly think Micc is scum. why haven't you done anything in your most recent posts to push him, question him, or try and convince people to vote him along with you? I'm seeing more weak pokes/jabs at a bunch of people, but no follow through on the Micc push.

I agree with this (though I don't exactly blame her for not reading Micc the riot act by now or anything, I don't think there's interaction with him though.)

Eh. I guess overall I'm not really seeing Malascum but I'm still concerned about it.

---

Mara thinks he's being more obtuse than normal and not *actually* doing anything legitimately town motivated.

I don't know what normal Thor is but other than that I agree Mara but I will defer a call on his alignment until he posts again.

Lastly, I like to spam so I don't wall. Spam may be annoying but it's usually a lot easier to read.

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah, but it felt like a "test" the water type thing with the second thing. Like a jab saying "HERE GUYS HES DOING SOMETHING SCUMMY LET'S SEE WHO BAITS AT IT" while being a scumfuck and sheeping a P1 case which wasn't solid in the first place.

I already called out Micc for these jabs.

This actually feels a bit more town to me.

I need to go to bed I will try to confirm when I wake.

[Save The Dragons]

If Mala is scum I'm going to cut out my brain and never use logic again and only rely on my gut.

I seriously don't understand how anyone can have a read on me yet.

You're town.

VOTE: Egg

Was that an RVS-type vote, or a vote based on suspicion?

I don't have much for reads right now.

That's a non-answer to the question.

I feel like he's taking easy stances and asking obvious questions rather than telling us what he truly believes.

This is a fair point.

-caling Thor vs STD town vs town

Do you disagree?

-asking fenchurch for a new reads list

@fen- do you feel like expounding on any of your other reads?

He didn't; Fenchurch just posted an updated one in response.

[Save The Dragons]

I took sthar's comment towards Fenchurch as wanting an update from his previous reads list. Prodding for more, whether he meant what I thought he meant orwhat you thought he meant, is easy to do though.

Fair.

[Save The Dragons]

STD, I don't have a strong enough read on you or Thor yet to be able to say I definitely agree or disagree, but sthar's writing it off as town vs town just looks like scum trying to show they have reads. It's very easy to take an arguement like that and call it town vs town. Specifically, it stands out because he didn't comment on any specific words you guys posted or anything. He didn't tell us what you said that looks town to him. He just kind of looks at two guys arguing and says they are town. It's just too easy a stance to take without explaining.

Fair.

[Save The Dragons]

STD, when you say "fair", does it mean you agree or you just understand where I am coming from? Because I notice you didn't use your vote to help me start a wagon on sthar.

The latter.

[Save The Dragons]

Not really convinced of Jason. To be honest, this has been bothering me for a while.

I figured if he is scum, we'd have a hard time figuring it out unless we pressure him right away. Maybe he didn't need so much pressure after all.

I'm trying to find the words to justify why it bothers me, I guess the closest I can come up with is: if you really think his scumplay is laudable, why would he be so easy to catch?

I've made it clear how I feel about his entry post, and I think the swearing seems genuine but I will examine my read on Jason later. Also I'll respond to you, malakittens in a bit.

[Save The Dragons]

Limiting access until Tuesday, very busy and stressed at the moment.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Thor

[Save The Dragons]

Isn't it just?

[Save The Dragons]

You'll have to wait

I'll post my case when I have time; in the meantime I have nothing better to do with my vote.

[Save The Dragons]

I'll post my case when I have time; in the meantime I have nothing better to do with my vote.

While i have you as town, I don't like the vote now, wait for my case mentality.

I am not suggesting you don't have reasons, it just seems like a vote first, and go back and find reasons later.

I don't think this is the case, but it does come across that way.

Fair enough but I really am busy this weekend.

The short version is that I think his posts against me seemed forced and deliberately obstructionist. I will explain further when I have time.

[Save The Dragons]

From what I've seen it looks like you didn't actually read my posts.

[Save The Dragons]

But it is weird that two people just added their votes onto SleepyKrew, that is all.

5. Post 53 - No, STD, it's not weird that two people voted SK. That's what RVS is about. I've got my eye on you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion?s=t

Okay that's done.

Neutral for now but I'm enjoying the grilling of STD.

Ha screw you.

7. Post 57 - STD acting like the SK wagon was this supersrs non-RVS wagon is weirdly defensive. FOS on him. Lol post 58 just ramps the defensiveness up to 11.

Spoiler: a post that has nothing to do with the SK wagon

Depends on their opinion - but, yes, people's thoughts tends to qualify my belief in how brilliant or silly I find them. I think...everyone does this?
Also, on a very broad scale - by definition people would tend to think people who disagree with them are dumb. People who think people that agree with them are dumb would be calling themselves dumb, which is kind of dumb.

I find this question kind of dumb.

I disagree, I think people are capable of having a different opinion than I am and still be smart, but really this is neither here nor there. My point is that I have a different opinion, you aren't validating that, and I'm not sure where that comes from.

I am not jumping on your wagon cuz I disagree with it. Does that make more sense?

That's different than your initial commentary of saying what he said was okay because "RVS".
Do you disagree with it for any particular reasons - or just "RVS".
Because if only "RVS" then, yeah, I think you need to defend that belief.

I disagree with the wagon because I don't think that his goofy post makes him scummy. I don't think I'm being unclear at all with this viewpoint.

Wow I guess you really didn't read my post. What post were you referring to?

8. Post 61 - STD I swear to god. I'm starting to get bored so this better get good soon.

No I swear to god, I'll answer questions posed to me and if that's scummy then lynch me.

12. Post 135 - Quote from STD: "I'm bothered by malakittens's language; there's a giddy confidence in there (like Light from Death Note, or I guess early books Queen Cersei)" Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. Something tells me I'm going to be voting you by the time I finish this.

So you're publicly announcing you're not reading for content and you're skimming, nitpicking, strawmanning...Are you scum?

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah that post isn't totally defensive at all.

Imagine that! A townie being called scum getting defensive!

Give me a moment.

[Save The Dragons]

Good luck with that

here's my readslist

god S tier scum:
Save The Dragons [Sickeningly Sweet]

scum:
Thor665 [Gestalt]
Trojan Horse [The Captains]

unknown/want to think more about currently:
Deltawave [TBD]
Boonskiies [TEAM WITH NO NAME]
jasonT1981 [The Kliq]
Malakittens [The Unviggable Vegetables]

town:
Fenchurch [God Save the Black Goo]
Pieguyn [Indecisive]
sthar8 [Marshmallow Pillow Fort]
Egg [Peruvian Flute Band]
Micc [The Athenians]
SleepyKrew [The Cockettes]

[Save The Dragons]

...I've literally called you town to your face earlier...

[Save The Dragons]

It really makes me want to declare jihad on STD.

It being me claiming SK is town?

[Save The Dragons]

I know. But I don't think you've explained why yet.

Gut mostly. You feel different from Cave Story tbh.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think you have legitimate reads. I think you're making it up.

I feel like your read on me is A) wrong B) terrible and C) ignores things I've said.

[Save The Dragons]

I know. But I don't think you've explained why yet.

Gut mostly. You feel different from Cave Story tbh.

Do I feel similar to Twist 1?

Kind of but it's been a while.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think you have legitimate reads. I think you're making it up.

What reads do you think are fake and why

I've explained Mala
I've explained Micc
Couldn't read you cuz you haven't posted
I hinted at my thor read
I don't really know if I mentioned my issue with Trojan
Boon and Jason are neutral I still need to read them

Kept my other reads close to the vest.

[Save The Dragons]

Alright, fine. Let me hit you in the balls with logic so hard you'll be picking fragments of your own testicles out of your teeth for weeks. Thor is supposedly your top scumread but you've done nothing but hedge on him so far (and complain about his attitude.) Your read came totally out of your ass, which is good because now there's more room in there for my foot.

You're just lovely.

It's really hard to get a good scum read on someone who made 4 posts and then disappeared so...

[Save The Dragons]

The reason I asked was because iirc at least part of the scumread in Cave Story was based on me not feeling like Twist.

I think that's what started me reading you as scum in Cave Story but I developed other reasons.

I don't want to say I could confidently sniff out your scum game from your town game. I don't think I always could. But your play here seems town.

[Save The Dragons]

So how is Thor scum?

Thor has spent a lot of time insulting my intelligence.

::looked at STDs join date. Brain melts.::

I'm a newb for believing his jason's RVS post was a null tell.

Depends on their opinion - but, yes, people's thoughts tends to qualify my belief in how brilliant or silly I find them. I think...everyone does this?
Also, on a very broad scale - by definition people would tend to think people who disagree with them are dumb. People who think people that agree with them are dumb would be calling themselves dumb, which is kind of dumb.

I find this question kind of dumb.

I'm dumb for having a different opinion. Really?

Your commentary there was so much on the fence that it didn't excite me.

This is a really lazy reason to justify the fact he missed a post where I explained what I meant. If you read my post for context, I say "I don't know" which means "I don't know if I agree with Cephrir." There's nothing in there that's really fence sitty other than that. So he's not reading for content.

So that does not fall under "sanctity" in your mind?
I repeat my need to understand sanctity.

It seems like he is intentionally being obtuse.

To be honest I was intentionally trying to badger him to see how he'd respond.

[Save The Dragons]

How so?

Someone attacking you for saying 'Greetings' helped.

I think you're actually trying to solve the game:

Do you think Trojan is scum, or just being dense?

...could you ask her, please?

(why do you care if you're scum)

This could, I suppose be lazy scum trying to be a hero

VOTE: DeltaWave
Not having reads is fine. Not making an effort isn't.

Gut

More gut

Why do you find it impossible for someone to town read you?

[Save The Dragons]

Nah. The bullshit is where you make a crappy case, ignore my rebuttal, ask me for more info, ignore everything I say, ignore the fact that as scum I could probably just ride off into the sunset and say nothing (OMG A WIFOM) and nothing would happen, and expect me to believe you're taking this game seriously.

[Save The Dragons]

Why would me being attacked for saying greetings help give you a townread on me? How come you only said gut and none of this other stuff the first time I asked?
I think having a townread on me is weird because I don't think I've done anything townread-worthy.

Considering I'm concerned that Trojan is scum attacking you it's a point in your favor

But again it's not everything

I'm kind of dodging bullets made of shit over here and I had a pretty fucked day so I'm not exactly going to be able to give you a dissertation on my thoughts in this game.

I think you're town, your posts imply to me that you're trying to solve the game. They give me town feels. W/e you want to believe. That read can change, I'm not sealing you forever in the cement of towniness, so unless you really think town couldn't have a gut read of you being town when you played different from when you were scum against them I'm not sure what you want me to say.

[Save The Dragons]

Call it crappy but I'm the one slapping you in the face with my monkey tail, if you get my drift. You are making up reads and then trying to come up with these lame justifications for them. I've read everything you've posted.

Well then explain what 57 has to do with SleepyKrew.

[Save The Dragons]

Hints on my thor read:

I have a different read than you do on Jason and I'm starting to think that you're being intentionally dense.

The short version is that I think his posts against me seemed forced and deliberately obstructionist. I will explain further when I have time.

An explanation for my Micc townread:

I think my vote was reactionary. I want to think more about you and I don't think that you and Thor are scum together (and I'd like to consider Thor some more). I think I remember liking 86; my problem was a perceived double standard and your response seemed genuine.

You received a townread from one of my teammates so that's also a plus.

Malakittens:
135 is literally a stream of concience read on mala. Conclusion: null. 136 I mention something she post seems more town.

My Trojan read:

I'm trying to find the words to justify why it bothers me, I guess the closest I can come up with is: if you really think his scumplay is laudable, why would he be so easy to catch?

That's four fucking reads I gave ahead of time and you have the audacity to tell me you've read my posts?

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Delta

Here's the long list of posts where he basically does nothing.

Spoiler:

i'll reck u m8 i sware on me mum

It really makes me want to declare jihad on STD.

I don't think you have legitimate reads. I think you're making it up.

No explanation.

Alright, fine. Let me hit you in the balls with logic so hard you'll be picking fragments of your own testicles out of your teeth for weeks. Thor is supposedly your top scumread but you've done nothing but hedge on him so far (and complain about his attitude.) Your read came totally out of your ass, which is good because now there's more room in there for my foot.

This is so much bullshit.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: STD

No explanation

Call it crappy but I'm the one slapping you in the face with my monkey tail, if you get my drift. You are making up reads and then trying to come up with these lame justifications for them. I've read everything you've posted.

Says he's read my post, has yet to really respond to anything I've said. Especially the parts where I point out he's mistaken!

A couple years back I dropped this massive deuce. I even took a picture of it, and I'll post it if you want. But yeah I bring this up because it reminds me of your post. I'm going to deal with this after a good night's sleep. I'll be dreaming of you.

When you wake up tomorrow and start trying to play the game feel free to change my mind.

[Save The Dragons]

Delta:

I grow weary of this. You are clearly not reading my posts and quite frankly I think you're making up this read on me since instead of countering ANY PROOF that I've had reads all game you're just like "oh, he's totally making up reads."

If you want to engage me, then fine, take a second to read and understand what I've said. Or you can keep up with your "that's bullshit" tactic and see how far that gets you.

Also, I presented a case on you! (I'll admit it's mostly just pointing out you've barely done shit all this game except for your readslist). So I don't get how you're all surprised you got my vote. Completely ignoring me is definitely not the way to convince me of this "logic" you supposedly know what it is or that you are giving me more than a cursory glance to see how to paint me negatively. Granted yes my vote was reactionary. I've apparently been doing that all game. But if you're town I think it's time you started putting some thought into this.

Now. Go read 57, tell me where in it I mention the SK wagon at all. Hint, it's nowhere.

Go read 306 and tell me how that doesn't showcase what my thought process is; how my reads are soooo arcane and made up when they've been in the thread this entire time.

UNVOTE: Delta
I'll wait. Convince me you actually can construct a logical argument.

[Save The Dragons]

Delta push: Dragons pushing on Delta.

Dragons push: Delta pushing on Dragons.

You like both of those, Thor?

[Save The Dragons]

I find his case to be lacking in scumhunting and strong in lynchability hunting.

VOTE: Thor

[Save The Dragons]

I'm signing off for the night. No time to comment on STD or Delta right now. STD: since you're reading me as scum, is there anything you want me to comment on? I'll do it tomorrow.

The greetings post and the other post I mentioned are really what niggled me into a scumread on you but to be I'm very distracted and would rather wait and see with regards to you.

[Save The Dragons]

5. Post 53 - No, STD, it's not weird that two people voted SK. That's what RVS is about. I've got my eye on you.

6. Post 54 - I'm not sure what Thor is trying to do in this post. Neutral for now but I'm enjoying the grilling of STD.

7. Post 57 - STD acting like the SK wagon was this supersrs non-RVS wagon is weirdly defensive. FOS on him. Lol post 58 just ramps the defensiveness up to 11.

but...you already mentioned 53.

[Save The Dragons]

Tell me more

Is my push on Delta scum on town? Is Delta's push on me scum on town? Do you think it's scum vs. scum?

Where is my push on Delta flawed? Where is it accurate? Do your teammates like my stuff or SK's post or perish vote? Which one is the push you speak of?
Where is Delta's push on me flawed? What besides me calling you out for your play of "I'm going to adhom someone instead of scumhunt" makes me scum? See I'm looking forward to the day where I can say that you spent more of this game trying to hunt down scum than insulting my intelligence. I don't think we're there yet.

All I know about your reads is basically that you think Jason is scum, you think a handful of people are town, and you're telling them to vote for hmmm...no one in particular. Town apparently sucks. Okay. That's wonderful. So you're not town then? What exactly are you doing besides championing a jason lynch that makes you so much better than everyone else?

[Save The Dragons]

Also for the love of god what makes you think I would think you're lynchable? I'm the oldest newb, ever and you're an IC, remember?

What does me attacking people who attack me have anything to do with picking lynchable targets if I were scum? Does that really sound like a winning strategy of picking lynchable targets as scum?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think it is and it appears to reasonably align with some of my stated issues with you.

Examples other than my case against you, please.

[Save The Dragons]

Pause

...that's the post you hate the most by Delta?

Unpause

[Save The Dragons]

Also for the love of god what makes you think I would think you're lynchable? I'm the oldest newb, ever and you're an IC, remember?

I fail to follow.

You can still answer the first question if you ignore my facetiousness.

Since that is part of your case on me:

he is looking for someone whom he thinks is lynchable rather than someone he thinks is scum.

It makes more sense as a scum strategy than a town strategy - explain the town strategy and I'll work harder to explain the scum one beyond 'attacking people you think can be made to look bad'.

Again I see a disconnect with "STD's a big noob" and "STD can successfully make me look bad"

Do you really think that scum often successfully attack targets that attack them and bring that football down to a touchdown? No, I just made myself look really shitty cuz Delta attacked me and I reflexively voted him. Some team members are suspicious of you but no one's gone out and voted you, no one's been like "great show, STD."

I'm having trouble understanding what makes you think you're so lynchable and why you thought someone could think that.

[Save The Dragons]

I actually more hate the wording, you basically said you hate a post where he finally provides content to suss and point out only the readslist as bad.

I'm also confused...you think Delta is posting because he wants to post? But we've been playing for a week and he's only really shown up to the table yesterday.

[Save The Dragons]

Nothing much. I think that's all I need as a scum case - it's pretty darn valid and also seems to have got you to sudden try to vote me - which looks scum reactionary rather than town deciding I'm right and voting me (illogical) or that I'm wrong and voting me (which hardly shows scum intent from me, since I'm not even voting you - making your case empty and weird)

...you do realize I was waiting days for you to come back so you could say something. Yeah I know you were on V/LA but I was waiting for anything from you to show you were town and I finally grew tired of waiting. My vote wasn't sudden, it was impatience.

Do you refer to you being right about me being dumb? If so, yes the first is illogical. If you're town, is the second seriously unwarranted? Call it arrogance on my part but if you look at me and after one opinion think I'm dumb then I think you're full of crap. Your responses to my inquiries on this front did not wow me. Hence I think you could be scum hard at work trying to discredit me. Is that the case? I don't know for certain, I kind of wish you didn't V/LA so I could have gotten a better opinion on you sooner.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't like the whole post in general that Delta did, not just the reads list. That's just what I commented on.

Okay, well now I know I guess

[Save The Dragons]

God who is this fucker that has 75 posts and claims he's on V/LA I'm going to murder him

[Save The Dragons]

Where is Delta's push on me flawed?

I don't think it is and it appears to reasonably align with some of my stated issues with you.

Examples other than my case against you, please.

Other than my evidence against you I do not have evidence against you - you are correct.

...so am I correct in saying you think that Delta's push on me isn't flawed, but only that parts where he attacks me for attacking you?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think you are impossible to lynch. I don't really know if I can do it so easily even if I'm right about you.

I'm treating lynchable as "easy to be lynched," not a 100% absolute black and white, which is where we are disconnecting now.

[Save The Dragons]

There is actually nothing in what you quoted that has me saying what you're concluding that I mean.

Okay then.

So, Thor, about that Delta push. Why is it not flawed, ignoring for now the part where he didn't like my push on you.

No, where we're disconnecting is you saying that it's unreasonable for me to suggest that you believe I am lynchable. I see nothing in your actions to suggest I should have perceived otherwise - yet you're acting like I'm crazy sauce for thinking so. Feel free to define it as easy or as difficult as I wish - but address the actual point I'm making, which is not the definition, it is the concept I have presented.

Crazy sauce?

It's hard to address the points when you're treating it as if I'm saying that you are impossible to lynch when I am treating it as if I'm saying you are unlikely to be lynch.

I concede that my wording was unclear but I don't really have anything to say other than if you consider my wordage as I mean it your points about me saying it's impossible to lynch you don't mean anything since I'm not saying that.

[Save The Dragons]

Now, what you're *really* trying to argue is how *easy* you think I would be to lynch, and how easy I think you think I would be easy to lynch.
But you're not arguing that.

Like you literally are saying that's what I'm arguing but not actually arguing it.

And I'm saying, no I am actually arguing that.

If there's something I'm missing in particular that is irrelevant to that point, please alert me.

Plain and simple I think you're scum trying to discredit me, trying to appear like some big damn hero right out of the gate. When some guy tries to contest this or present a viewpoint contrary to your own, you proceed to attack them. When confronted further, I find your answers to be suspect, I find your rebuttal to be dismissive, my spidey sense feels like you're trying to be careful with what you say while being a bit obtuse. I don't actually care how lynchable or unlynchable you are, I'm pointing out that as scum I am, from my point of view, making things difficult for me. That's my opinion. If I'm right, woo, I'll take that as confirmation I'm not so dumb after all and if I'm wrong, whoops, guess I shouldn't get so distracted when someone insults me.

I suppose at some point I should just stop trying to argue towniness and just start thinking about how you've handled this conversation.

[Save The Dragons]

I concede I was dumb but only for attempting to try and talk to you

Our conversation is getting pedantic and neither of us are budging so I'm going to stop.

As far as Delta I've provided many flaws to his arguments. He first mislabels a post and then claims it's supposed to be another post that's already labeled. That makes no fucking sense.

He spends most of his time just calling my arguments bullshit. He says I made up my reads and I pointed out where I did make my reads throughout the game. His argument is, multiple times, that I'm taking shit without much explanation.

If that is your definition of flawless remind me never to buy a diamond from you.

[Save The Dragons]

Ceph would like to know if ffery is reading this game.

[Save The Dragons]

What bonus does the town get if we sit here, snarling at each other, nipping at each other's tails?

If you feel like I've left something unanswered, try this response: "you're being dense. Maybe it's intentional. If so, you're scum. If not, I'm tired of wasting time convincing you of things if you're just going to be dense." That satisfies most of what I've not answers and answered.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Delta

I'm currently leaning town on Jason, will try to vocalize why (or see if that opinion still holds) later.

[Save The Dragons]

I think it's pretty clear you weren't reading my posts despite your claim to the contrary.

I think your "whoops I meant 53" is utter crap and I pointed out why; you already posted 53. Despite my mentioning that 57 was screwy you waited until someone else realized you were babbling to actually look at it, once again suggesting you're not actually reading me for content. I think you're nitpicking and hoping your case against me sticks.

I think your point about "he's making up his reads out of his ass" is invalidated by 306 which you have yet to acknowledge.

I think all these facts have been either mentioned or implied by the posts you aren't reading of mine and coupled with this realization that you're basically doing jack shit this game seem to add up to a nice reason for me to vote you.

[Save The Dragons]

So basically you're going to fall back on that typo and then double-down on the whole "you've done nothing" reasoning. Of course you're not going after sthar who has 8 posts or Micc who has 10.

Your response makes no sense and looks like scum backtracking to cover an error. I think you tried to paint me in a nasty light and did it poorly.

There is the fact is you still refuse to acknowledge that I had reads when you said I made them up.

You have done very little in this game other than wrongly accuse me of scum so yeah I'm going to be a little more sensitive to that than people like Micc or sthar who, even though they haven't posted very much, at least appear to rationally be reading this game. Micc and sthar also haven't done the first two paragraphs so I'm not really sure why you think I should scumread them for only doing one of the things I'm suspicious of you for.

If you want the last word, go ahead. There's nothing left for me to argue with you so I'm going to do my best to nip this conversation in the bud before it become too verbose.

[Save The Dragons]

Emphasis mine. Obviously a bad joke, and not a scumslip, right?

Right?

Are you for serious?

this is actually far too many townreads...

Are you for serious?

[Save The Dragons]

Keep in mind, these are page 11 reads! Don't go over exaggerating everything like you all have been. I'll give you 6.

Pieguyn

- town, as explained earlier.

sthar8

- I like his thought process in this game; he's been coming off very genuine to me. I believe him to be town.

Egg

- aye...most of the games I've been in with Egg, i've seen him as instantly town. Granted it's page 11, but I'm not feeling that. lean scum.

Trojan Horse

- i think this guy is ignorant as hell. But when I see ignorance and I'm not town reading someone, usually means they're scum. I feel like he's just waiting around waiting for people to act scummy so he can mislynch them. scum.

jasonT1981

- my team told me that he's probably town. So I'm going to start seeing things as if they're coming from TownJason.

Malakittens

- My team told me you were town. But I felt that anyways. I liked your 188, and you've kind of been helping me stay on track, and not be all flail townie-easy mislynch. People could argue that you could be WK'ing me, especially since I believe this is our first game together since the Titus meet? yes. Your reactions come off genuine.

You're town reading 4 people here.

So 2 extra's bad?

Does townread not mean "I think these people are town?"

Do any of those reads look off to you or just the number of reads?

[Save The Dragons]

Also the fact he went out of his way to make an unknown list.

Tbh it was in response to this:

STD, what do you think of my other reads?

I just never got around to comparing it. I made the list the day before (around the time I voted Thor, iirc) but decided to keep it in my team thread rather than post it out here so I could get some feedback on it.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Thor

[Save The Dragons]

Lying about tokens would require the entire team to either lie or keep their mouth shut. Before I even knew alignment I didn't want to say anything about our tokens.

I kind of hate this argument.

Especially since

Someone on the team has a higher chance of using scum tokens (which, may I remind you, doesn't guarantee scum)

Refusing to discuss it tends to strongly suggest that at least one of you went scum though.

became:

paired with the token thing.

part of the reason Jason is scum

The odds that Jason's team is not talking about token use because Jason used tokens to get scum and because of it Jason actually rolled scum...actually not that high.

sthar8

: I'm not trying to be critical but is there something else to your pie read than her attacks on you?

Deltawave

: At some point I thought at least one of {Deltawave, Thor} was scum which was perhaps somewhat biased. I'm not sure where I currently stand on DeltaWave. All the stuff about me is useless to me so I would love to hear more about things like:

Scumpool - Boon, STD, Pie

Why pie and is this still true

Who else do you think is scum

What your opinion on Jason is since you seem to have none

Boonskiies

: his entire line of questioning for 407 411 413 and 414 kind of looks like scum trying to push the lynch on me further with a crap argument especially considering it came after he was reminded of my list

Spoiler: Ninja Mafia

Xiao Long - null

Varsoon - town. I like how he's playing, even if I did feel a little tunneled.

Goblin - he's just hot headed townie.

Drake Crusader - null
Konowa - This could be the 3rd scum. I felt a little buddy-buddy with him and Thor; didn't scum read until Thor flipped goon.
Boonskiies - super town.

Zebulin - I think he's town. He hasn't been posting much, and I agree that I looked easily scummy, and for him to go on me was a super town move.

acryon - scum. He isn't voting me because he thinks I'm scum. I don't see a possibility where he is town. I get why town would vote me, but this isn't coming from a town perspective.

orcinus_theoriginal - town for now, but the explanation I said earlier could come back up.

BlueBloodedToffee - super town. listen to this guy.

gamsimbre - null

Here's a game with 5 townreads (6 if you include himself )

Guess 6 really is the magic number

jason

: I seem to recall saying I would try to justify my town read

49: The questions he ask seem legit
60: His response to thor's attack seems genuine like "okay w/e dude." I think it would be difficult as scum to justify a case on SK ignoring the thing he's currently being pushed for by someone I think that's more of a town mindset. I agreed with his point on Micc.
161: I don't remember if I mentioned this or not It's interesting to note that SK deserves a vote while Delta a prodding though I think he called SK out a little more.
173: I suppose this is null, this is probably how a scum should treat an early wagon against them to appear town and make it less legit but it could be town actually not bothered by the wagon against them
178: While I'm not sure I would follow onto his initial push onto boon, dismissing the case as 'creative fluff' is odd. The response seems genuine.

I guess there's a lot of gut

I also disagree with pretty much every point of the case against jason I've seen brought up. I don't think RVS was telling, I don't think his attack on Boonskiies looks like trying to hose a village idiot, I don't think the tokens mean anything they're really distracting and easy to attack.

Trojan Horse

:
Every post just seems to bother me :/

Thor

:

Ceph would like to know if ffery is reading this game.

[Save The Dragons]

Hmm. Most of STD's reads are the exact opposite of mine. Can you explain your reads on Trojan, Fenchurch, and myself as well as your lack of read on Boon and Jason? Nothing in Trojan's posts feels scummy to me. I still have a gut scum read on Fenchurch and no clue why and would love to know why you have a town read. People tend to read me based on my activity and I haven't done jack shit this game, so why am I town? Also, your Thor read is based on his playstyle/personality. Your difficulty explaining your Sleepykrew read is disturbing too.

Trojan has made some posts that have made me feel icky and I've called out some of them

I figured if he is scum, we'd have a hard time figuring it out unless we pressure him right away. Maybe he didn't need so much pressure after all.

I'm trying to find the words to justify why it bothers me, I guess the closest I can come up with is: if you really think his scumplay is laudable, why would he be so easy to catch?

I don't want to lynch him based off of some icky posts and my read of him has gone more towards null but even so I'm not confident I feel like some of his reads are genuine.

Fenchurch I think mostly because I could either agree or at least suspect where her reads came from. That read is wavering as I consider that she's done a lot of things that seem to be for show, i.e. the random die roll discussion and tossing the vote list. I would probably consider her more null at this point but still leaning town.

Egg I disagreed with your conclusion but I thought your push on sthar seemed genuine, like you were actually pushing a scumread. I'm also assuming that you'll do more later in this game and I'll be able to adjust my read based on that but based on what you'd done so far I read town.

I was too distracted in game and out and hadn't really given time to Jason and Boon's argument so I put them at null. Having looked at them now I would put Jason as town and Boon at scum.

My thor read is not based off of playstyle. I think his attack on me is forced, I think that he's intentionally asking questions and mincing words to prolong useless discussion and overdramaticize things that aren't scummy. I think he's made no attempt to ascertain my alignment; he's arguing for show.

SK is literally him not feeling as he did in Cave Story. It's bad but he just feels town, and his insistence that he shouldn't be town read at this point actually makes me think he's town more.

[Save The Dragons]

Boon:

I'll admit I didn't check the date. It just seems odd to me that you think it's entirely impossible for someone to put 6 people into a town pile.

Here's a readslist from AU Final Fantasy where I put half the town into a "town, would not vote" pile on day 1. The only difference is I specified "lean town" on some which I didn't do in this game. (was town in that game ftr)

Spoiler:

1. ActionDan
I don't know, I could vote

2. ArcAngel9
Arg I think I'm headed town, probably not this lynch

3. dainn (fferyllt/konowa)
town not voting

4. Desperado
leaning town, wouldn't vote today

5. Empking
I could vote

6. GuyInFreezer
town, not voting today

7. House
town, not voting today

8. Katsuki
I have no clue anymore.

9. LostPatience
I would vote, probably not happening though?

10. MattP
I don't know, leaning town though so maybe another day

11. Metal Sonic
I don't know, would vote

12. My Milked Eek
I don't know, would vote

13. ooba
town, not voting

14. PeregrineV
I don't know, probably wouldn't vote

15. Saki
would vote

16. Save The Dragons
this bastard is always scum, don't listen to his lies

17. Seelie Seraph (Tammy/Natirasha)
wouldn't vote

18. Serene2 (kuribo/DrippingGoofball/Fakegod)
town, wouldn't vote

19. SnowStorm
i don't know, but leaning town.

20. Sweenz
i don't know, leaning town.

21. Taylor Swift (notscience/Nachomamma8)
town, no vote.

22. Flipping Awesome (F-16_Fighting_Falcon/penguin_alien) Teen Heat
I was townread Teen Heat before it was cool (I don't know why). no vote

23. Juls The Goat
unsure, would vote

I'm not saying "omg look at my town meta" but I am saying your post looks more like "I'm going to put something on this person who's garnered negative attention" more than "I really think this is legitimately scummy" and that concerns me.

[Save The Dragons]

Okay so reading the post where I responded to egg and the post where I pointed out my reads to Delta which reads do you think are false? If all, please hint as to why.

Why is 6 so many? What number is acceptable to you?

[Save The Dragons]

There's been a lot of pushing on Thor lately (including my killer case). Why are you trying to start something on Delta, when Thor is a scumread of yours?

[Save The Dragons]

Ffrey is reading the game and has offered some thoughts as well.

'The tooth fairy is reading the game and has offered some thoughts as well' is about as convincing as this statement btw.

[Save The Dragons]

There's been a lot of pushing on Thor lately (including my killer case). Why are you trying to start something on Delta, when Thor is a scumread of yours?

So we agree that Trojan's up to something?
I don't wanna start something on him though D:

Like I said Trojan's bothered me. I don't know if it's him being weird or him or scummy.

Like, I thought Thor's target besides Jason was pretty obvious. Maybe I'm too close. But I'm sure someone could have surmised that. So that question kind of looks like asking a question just to appear engaged in the game.

I still don't like it. Not my fault.

Choosing to dismiss with 'not my fault' instead of trying to help me make sense of your town motivation isn't really winning me over.

[Save The Dragons]

I was hoping you'd have some forethought to read into the question

Like I dunno
"hey thor, Ceph wants to know if ffery is reading this game."
"yes."
"...uh...okay..."

So what the smurf is she saying? How the smurf should I know if she's reading the game if you're going to say yes or no and nothing more?

[Save The Dragons]

I can't help but wonder if STD's team told him stop arguing with Thor or he's gonna end up lynched.

fuck

Like seriously, the second people realize I'm not an entirely shitty player at this game the better off everyone's going to be.

[Save The Dragons]

Delta makes a good point about STD's OMGUS and it's along the same lines as what I was thinking. He didn't just OMGUS and be done with it. He tried to justify it.

It's impossible for me to develop a scumread on someone attacking me when I perceive their reasons to be poor.

Ok, maybe this wasn't a "don't argue with Thor" thing and that's just how you end arguments...

Do you want me to answer every question of Thor's in painstaking detail so he can respond and I can respond and we can clutter the thread in quote walls over and over? I'm willing to take the fucking hit to stop the madness. If you're reading this game, it's pretty clear I think he's scum and he thinks I'm scum.

If you think there's much more to be gained by talking to each other, you're crazy. It's not that fucking hard to figure that out, pretending like I stopped the argument because I was "losing" or "I looked bad" or "because I'm scum" is fucking stupid.

[Save The Dragons]

Like, what is the magical convincing it's supposed to generate? I didn't claim it supported or attacked anything, but he attacked it anyway after *asking* me to state it.

Why the smurf can't I just ask you a smurfing question and get a smurfing answer? You make a big show out of it and claim it has to do with 'supporting' or 'attacking' or anything. I want to know because I don't believe you; you're going to have to do better than 'yes' or 'no' to convince me of smurf.

I think you're talking from your smurfing smurf and I would like to be convinced otherwise on the off chance you are town which if you were by the way you really should lose the smurfing attitude because if I'm town and you're town you're getting me smurfing riled up and is that what you want? I doubt it but I doubt you considered it; you haven't needed to because you're scum.

If half the arguments against me are going to boil down to "well, he's not very good" then I'm smurfing tired of this smurf maybe you should just smurfing lynch me already so you can realize how wrong and dumb that belief is.

Look. I admit my statement was a bit tongue in cheek, but it makes its point...you threw that out like it was nothing, if someone is scum reading you, how the smurf are they supposed to believe you. Like, honestly. No, you aren't thinking like I could be town, you never have, that's why I think you're scum because you're solely focused on smearing my name.

Thor is scum
Boon is his buddy
Anything else, I dunno yet. One of them should hang.

[Save The Dragons]

So when you said "that's not convincing" what you meant is "could you tell me some of her thoughts?"
Bollocks.

No you smurf

Ceph would like to know if ffery is reading this game.

^
THAT MEANS TELL ME SOME OF HER THOUGHTS

Can you honestly sit here and tell me "oh yeah, I think he'll be satisfied with a yes or no to that question, that's what he meant by that."

[Save The Dragons]

Here's one of her thoughts - she is actually town reading your slot.

Why was that so smurfing hard

For the love of god

Seriously

Fuck me

[Save The Dragons]

Yep, Egg

There's totally no null reason why I wouldn't want to continue a conversation with Thor.

It couldn't be because I'm tired of being treated like I'm shit
It couldn't be because I'm tired of having my words twisted and misinterpreted
It couldn't be because I'm arguing with someone who sits down with a fucking dictionary and hashes out the literal meaning of each and every statement I make

Nope, it's totally because I'm scum

[Save The Dragons]

Not buying this - you feel caught.

I'm quoting this and will enjoy calling you a moron if I get mislynched

I will try to keep it at moron

[Save The Dragons]

I admit again my statement was a bit confrontational, I didn't mean to start a fight, but I was a little pissed off that I got a literal answer to the question; I honestly don't understand how you think I didn't want an explanation, or that Ceph didn't want further clarification unless your intent was to be obstructionist. I think that's ridiculous personally but I suppose that's not how I phrased my question.

I'm getting a little surprised that it seems everything I do is with scum motivation. That makes no sense.

I think Thor is scum. My team agrees.

I do not think he lifted a finger ever to try and figure out I was town or not, he just tacked on to me because he assumed I was a terrible player. If this is true, it does not feel good. Hell, if it's not true it does not feel good. I think that he never realized for a second that I was trying to read him and assumed everything I've ever said is an attack against him. He never saw me as trying to get more information from him.

I am unlikely to vote for anyone else at this point. Perhaps I will revise that when I have a cooler head but right now I'm too tired to deal with all this and I have so many better things to do so I'm going to do my best to shut up for a while.

[Save The Dragons]

I asked about a specific person.

[Save The Dragons]

"Yes. Why?"
"Yes. A couple people are scum reading you."
"Yes. Our thread is filled with facepalms and head explosions."
"Yes. The general consensus last I checked was that we all hate this game."
(all true btw)

Your response:

"Yes."

No. It doesn't prove malicious intent, but I don't know how you can sit there and feel like I or Ceph would be satisfied with that answer. That is my problem with it. Keep in mind I am still trying to read your alignment.

I seem to be a little calmer.

[Save The Dragons]

Yet you were made happy simply by me stating that she town read your slot?

So your argument is "Ffery is townreading you while I'm not" gives me the same or barely any more info than "ffery is reading the game"

Seriously

If that's all you wanted why not ask for it?

I thought I had

If it's not all you wanted - why not clarify what you want?

I thought I had

Who are you townreading?

[Save The Dragons]

I'm disappointed that my STD case isn't getting much support.

Perhaps you should reconsider it

Truncated the quote to save space. I don't think that's STD's argument. He wasn't voting me for a bad push, he was voting me for not having contributed or whatever. As for your next question, I think all his reads were suspect but most especially SK. I don't see how he could have grouped SK in with the town at that point (it would be more reasonable to call him null.) In fact it was almost as if he sorted his read list by how controversial each person was.

Someone else called SK town, Delta (though I forgot who).

I was pretty clearly voting for you in part for having a bad push:

I feel like your read on me is A) wrong B) terrible and C) ignores things I've said.

My vote on you was very reactionary

[Save The Dragons]

Why?

I'm actually still trying to figure you out, even now, just in case.

[Save The Dragons]

STD, I never said you were a shitty player. Hell, I really don't think you are. At all. Not sure what gives you that impression either. Either I said something that was taken a way that I didn't mean for it to be taken, or that is just AtE. Also, Thor isn't the only player in this game day that you've pulled the "I'm ending this conversation" card on.

I'm aware I'm being overly sensitive. Your point, however, looked a lot like "STD is scum playing poorly and his team coached him into correcting his poor play," hence my response.

This game has caused me much stress and a lot of that is on me. I'm actually pretty sure I'm done with mafia for a while, but that was a long time coming with real life issues and past games that have had issues, not due just to what's been happening here. Long story short I usually come to mafiascum when I'm stressed and I leave even more stressed.

As far the "ending this conversation" the only other person I recall doing that with is Delta. And if you look back I didn't actually stop conversing with him as far as I'm aware, I kept hounding him about two posts of mine that he ignored and his response to his post. If anything, he stopped engaging with me with his repeated "what do you think of my case" "jihad" etc etc etc.

I hate not voting for thor but I'd prefer this wagon to jason.
VOTE: Boonskiies

[Save The Dragons]

Can someone just give me a run down on the votes on Boon again?

Boonskiies: his entire line of questioning for 407 411 413 and 414 kind of looks like scum trying to push the lynch on me further with a crap argument especially considering it came after he was reminded of my list

When I continued this inquiry I got "I just don't like it. It's not my fault."

Also I don't really want to lynch Jason. Boon is an acceptable lynch that seems possible.

At least that's why I'm voting for him. I actually don't agree with jason's meta argument on him.

[Save The Dragons]

I do hate the boon vote,

Join me on Thor

[Save The Dragons]

I'll even vote him again.

VOTE: Thor

We have cookies over here.

I'm working on trying to clarify my issue with Thor without sounding like a crazy person since it really has a lot to do with the feels I got from interacting with me and the little things he did in our argument that don't suggest a town motivation. I'm asking my team for input.

Fuck I'm even doubting it a little, wondering if I am the crazy one, and if Thor isn't really scum but just an asshole.

[Save The Dragons]

Because you were never rude to me in this game

[Save The Dragons]

Like I'm sorry if you are offended by me calling you an asshole, I'm not saying it to be rude

I'm saying it because I come into this thread and dread every time I see your name as the one who posted

That I have to sort through pedantic bullshit in your responses

That I have to see you nitpick each and every point to the point where it's diluted

That I have to feel that sting of "this point only really makes sense if I consider STD is bad at this game"

That you have actually called me bad and 'derpy' multiple times; i think i'd rather be called an asshole.

That you have yet to even see me eye to eye

You are not town and if you are you are wasting your time with your hyperlogicized pedantic verbose questions and you're not taking a second to think about the point of view of the other person involved

You have these two scum reads you built in the first post of the game and every little post in another point against them

If you're not scum, then show me you actually gave a crap and tried to figure out my alignment before you just came in with a list and said "hey I'm back now. Dragons is scum" and spent the rest of the game arguing with me over the definition of things like "lynchability" instead of trying to figure out what I meant.

You have done nothing to suggest you've been thinking about why I'm asking you questions, which leads me to believe you are scum. If you're not, why am I to believe you're considering me as a person.

Like fuck I know I'm much of the problem and I'm not fucking playing mafia again I've said this I really really hate what's happening I'm so fucking stressed out and you are making it worse so I dislike you I'm sorry if that's not your intent. But fuck, I have 11 other players in this game that I still would play again with if I had any desire to play mafia, why are you the one I wouldn't?

Part of me still thinks you could be town and if it's true then maybe you are right and I do suck at this game and that's not a comfortable thought.

I'm sitting here discrediting my own credibility because I can't come up with a convincing argument to lynch you that doesn't look like I'm just being reactionary to the argument against me when in my gut I have no fucking clue why you'd behave the way you have this entire time in your case against me. No thoughts towards sussing my alignment.

So maybe you're starting to convince me that maybe I do suck
So maybe yeah I have some choice words for you

[Save The Dragons]

Did you even read that for context?

[Save The Dragons]

I think you are rude.

That is what I meant by asshole. I am sorry if you took it to mean something different. I think you have been rude to me. Maybe it was warranted, maybe it wasn't. I did not want to get you mad, that was not my intent.

[Save The Dragons]

I agree that we don't understand each other. I honestly doubt you made any attempt to. It's one of the reasons I think you are scum (and incidentally, not an asshole, since if you're scum you're justified in attacking me, though if true I don't really appreciate it. I can't really deal with that so I'm not playing mafia anymore.)

It is clear the world 'asshole' hurts you. Well, like I said, calling me bad hurts me more than calling me an asshole. That's different for you than it is for me. Again, I apologize if you think asshole is a terrible insult. I say it to express how I feel. Your rudeness has caused me pain. A lot of that is on me, I expressed my viewpoint that I don't hold you entirely responsible. I do not regret what I said but I do not mean to hurt you, only bring to light what I feel (and a side effect of seeing how you'd react).

If you hate me or think I'm an asshole, w/e. But I think you have been rude to me. If you are scum, you have that excuse, and if you're town, then you don't and I don't know why.

[Save The Dragons]

Also me calling you all the nasty names in the world or calling you the nicest warmest kindest person in the world doesn't affect how I feel about this:

If you're not scum, then show me you actually gave a crap and tried to figure out my alignment before you just came in with a list and said "hey I'm back now. Dragons is scum" and spent the rest of the game arguing with me over the definition of things like "lynchability" instead of trying to figure out what I meant.

[Save The Dragons]

arguably

[Save The Dragons]

I regret what I said and have been beating myself up over it all day. This isn't at all who I am in real life and I am unsure why things are different here. I don't really want you to leave with that opinion of me and I regret that I likely lost the opportunity for that not to happen. Abrasive and sarcastic is fine, an asshole is not.

I will promise not to get so heated in the future, it is me projecting my anger from real life. I will try to remain calm in game.

I am willing to continue this game without getting so heated. If you feel like you cannot, Thor, it's not fair to force you out of this game for my dickishness so if you feel we cannot play together I will switch or replace out.

Other than that I am moving on. I am sorry.

[Save The Dragons]

I actually really like Mala's argument on fenchurch.

[Save The Dragons]

um Delta

I mentioned this

That you have actually called me bad and 'derpy' multiple times; i think i'd rather be called an asshole.

and I repeated it again.

Please read for context in the future.

[Save The Dragons]

Also I seem to care more about Thor's opinion of me than yours. That's a psychological thing.

You seem to want to spend the entire game with your hand in one cookie jar. Like literally, you have no other opinions other than I'm scum. My role PM suggests you are wrong. If that's your play, I don't really care what you think about mine.

Which you didn't talk about. You just said some dumb stuff about jihad and balls and whatever. I don't care if you say dumb things, you never actually personally attacked me.

[Save The Dragons]

Can we quit this? Or would you like me to embarrass myself some more for your amusement?

[Save The Dragons]

Though I have my doubts it's not enough to make me want to vote Jason today.

The conviction over his boon meta tell looks town, the logic behind it is lacking. The idea that Thor is trying to out power roles is an empty argument.

I know we're not supposed to outguess the mod, but if bodyguard is such a bad role, do you really think it would've been used in Team Mafia? I doubt it.

The rest of your post is fine, (and I cannot speak to the popularity of the bodyguard role; I have no idea)

But this line looks like the purpose of this is to discredit jason's claim based on the fact that pie's opinion is that bodyguards are bad and therefore mods wouldn't include it.

[Save The Dragons]

I've stated why. My team, specifically GuyInFeezer, says that Jason and Mala are town.

I'm trusting it.

I couldn't really blame boonskiies for jumping onto jason, so the fact that he doesn't gives me pause wrt my previous read on him.

[Save The Dragons]

My case on Thor was never "he's mean." It's that I could not see a rationale pro-town reason for being not only mean, but obtuse and verbose. It looked intentional to me.

Calling me whiney and bad whether true or not doesn't refute that fact.

Also; my wagon is comprised of three players I called scum long before they ever voted me; thus ends my wagon analysis.

Are all three scum?

I want to bring this to your attention.

He has a few times posted about forcing through the lynch or at least to the point of a claim. It does seem he wants to out roles partly.

This is true - I do wish to out some roles.

This is why I am saying Thor wants to out roles... as it came directly from Thor himself.

But the problem is that wagons form, people claim all the time; why does it make Thor scum for acknowledging that? Do you think scumthor publicly announced an anti-town desire to get as many claims as possible out into the open? That's my issue.

Unvote

for now

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Thor

[Save The Dragons]

Ceph is convinced Trojan is town. I'm not as convinced but I would still much rather lynch Thor.

[Save The Dragons]

Overnight I went back on the thread and tried to figure out who might be scum based off of the flip.

Spoiler: Fenchurch part

Fenchurch [God Save the Black Goo]

I like that Fenchurch ended up on the right side of things (I mean I guess Trojan could be scum too and then in that case Fenchurch helped to foster a mislynch; we can cross bridge that when we get there.)

That said, 2 out if 3 of my teammates think Thor is the better lynch. I've been waiting to see which way some of the lurkers wouldgo. Now that most votes have been placed, I'll have a little think and then add mine. (If it's Trojan, I'll ask for a claim first.)

But unless her team is telling her to bus Thor this looks legit.

I generally like her team commentary...but for paranoia's sake I will say if anything there's almost too much...like it's borderline she's coming up with a thought and attributing it to a member of her team. It is hard to pay attention to all games.

Pieguyn [Indecisive]

Pieguyn seemed to consider pretty early on that Thor was behaving as he was because he was scum. Her pushes on Thor made Thor seem like a viable option more than once throughout the day so unless the goal was to bus the entire day to the point of a lynch I'm not sure I'd consider pie scum.

sthar8 [Marshmallow Pillow Fort]

VOTE: Thor

Epiphany. I'm mobile, so explanation and fact checking later.

This vote was pretty dramatic, but honestly it would have looked a lot worse had Thor been town. It is probably a pretty weird time to bus your scum partner right after 'assholegate.' The thor wagon was almost dead in the water at this point.

I am right. Hiders a shit claim. And if I'm wrong, Thor would have played it like shit anyway

This also seems more like "I'm town and saw through that." than "I'm scum and I know I'm right." Especially with the jab at the end.

Egg [Peruvian Flute Band]

Dammit.

Unvote, Vote Thor

You guys better be right.

I guess my issue is that if Egg were scum, he can hardly be blamed by the thor camp for being stubborn and forcing a no lynch. Probably not the safest play if Thor was lynched later, sure. It does give him town cred. If there was bussing on this wagon, it's more likely to come at the last minute than earlier in the game, imo, though.

Save The Dragons [Sickeningly Sweet]

teh adorbs

Deltawave [TBD]

Horrible, horrible idea to lynch a PR claim D1. There is no excuse for this wagon.

I could be fooled, but this really sounds like town frustrated we lynched a claimed PR. It's probably not something he would have said if he were Thor's scum buddy.

The fact that he spent most of his time chasing after me seems a bit reckless for scum; could be someone trying to really force a mislynch through, there's a lot of conviction for someone whom he would know to be town...I don't know.

Boonskiies [TEAM WITH NO NAME]

I've stated why. My team, specifically GuyInFeezer, says that Jason and Mala are town.

I'm trusting it.

This is the difference between Thor, who probably lied about or made up reads from his team, and Boon, who actually looks like he is listening to real reads.

I don't love everything the slot says though. I think he pretty much ignored Thor the entire game.

Micc/VysePresident [The Athenians]

If scum he blatantly sheeps his scumbuddy in the first post

He thinks Thor is scum pretty early based on how Thor is pushing jason

I don't love the Trojan vote but I can't really blame someone who had 5 seconds to play the game.

Micc's thoughts were similar to mine

Trojan Horse [The Captains]

I really don't know. If Trojan were scum with Thor, then I guess they probably wanted a mislynch or to ditch the teammate that was in more hot water. TH keeps saying and doing these things that bother me. His 'let's see what happens' when I vote DeltaWave was odd, but maybe he's just quirky. I don't know. TH might be a counterwagon to Thor, an attempt to save him, and in that case someone who built it is scum.

SleepyKrew [The Cockettes]

I feel town vibes from him, Cephrir does not and is the voice in my ear telling me to be wary of SK.

jasonT1981 [The Kliq]

Thor basically had his vote and his sights set on Jason the entire game. Thor was intending to mislynch him. A bus could be possible but then they're going for the long con.

Malakittens [The Unviggable Vegetables]

A scum malakittens could hide behind a policy of not lynching a claimed PR D1 as a way not to lynch their buddy.

I have seen a hider and a BG in the same setup, it's just a large not a mini-normal.

~

VOTE: Trojan

Sorry to do this man, but I feel thor is just a riskier lynch due to the pr claim.

;-;

This post is a defense of Thor's claim, and then a vote and an apology for voting Trojan. This means she doesn't think Trojan is scum, but she's voting for him. It is possible it is because she's settling for a townread. (or a zany theory; a {Thor, TH, Mala} scum team she's apologizing to the partner she is bussing)

[Save The Dragons]

The kill gives me pause, since I convinced myself overnight that Malakittens is scum, but it's a weird move to attack the person directly coming after you.

Regardless, the above probably puts my readslist at the following:

God SSS tier scum
Thor665 [Gestalt]

strong lean town

jasonT1981 [The Kliq]
Pieguyn [Indecisive]

lean town

sthar8 [Marshmallow Pillow Fort]
Egg [Peruvian Flute Band]
Fenchurch [God Save the Black Goo]
Trojan Horse [The Captains]
Deltawave [TBD]

null/undecided

SleepyKrew [The Cockettes]
VysePresident [The Athenians]
Boonskiies [TEAM WITH NO NAME]

lean scum

Malakittens [The Unviggable Vegetables]

VOTE: Malakittens

will try to look back at her ISO and see if I still agree with this assessment.

[Save The Dragons]

Ceph thinks that you're more than capable of fooling people as scum. It's not that I don't, it's just that my gut read is winning out over any fear I have that the SK in this game is scum.

Considering I've PoE'd a lot of the player list, I do want to take a closer look at my read on you, though.

[Save The Dragons]

Was townreading Egg even before his vote. I'm having trouble seeing his vote as "gotta bus my partner for town cred." I'm probably not going to be interested in Egg today, or rather the case of "that vote looked suspicious" isn't going to do it for me.

Boon looks worse with the thor flip. Having one buddy defend or bus and one completely ignore seems plausible and if so then Boon's our guy; Thor was pretty polarizing.

Now that I think about it it's actually really odd that Boon says "Jason and Mala" are town when Mala didn't really receive much fire until later. Gun to my head at this moment in time I think the scumteam is {boon, thor, mala} but we'll see. There certainly could be something I'm missing.

Boon why did you include Mala in that town read?

[Save The Dragons]

Also, I must explain yet again to STD about how MY TEAM THINKS THAT JASON AND MALA ARE TOWN, so I'm going to trust them.

You know you could just say

"they only gave me reads on Mala or Jason"

I'm just wondering why you chose to broadcast the mala read.

[Save The Dragons]

Didn't catch fire until late? Stop misrepping me. You've been doing it ALL game. I've been this way since the beginning.

you clearly misunderstand what I meant by

"Mala didn't catch fire until later"

because I don't know what it has to do with your readslist

and it almost entirely has to do with Fenchurch attacking her after you mentioned your town read

I'm just trying to figure out why you mentioned Mala, that is all. I may have gone a little overboard with the "gun to my head" thing but where I'm at there's a ton of people who appear town due to thor and you're not on the list so I'm looking at you more heavily.

[Save The Dragons]

Also, as scum, I would have had absolutely no reason to bring those reads of my team up considering I was in the midst of hardcore tunneling on Jason, who was a very likely lynch. I'm glad Jason brought up what his team said, because I was also conflicted. That's made me less worried.

This is why I townread you yesterday (which I have mentioned) and was extremely uninterested in a flash lynch of you.

[Save The Dragons]

Also feel free to backup the accusation I've been misrepping you all game.

[Save The Dragons]

boon what's you're read on me

[Save The Dragons]

Huh?!?!? I ALWAYS INTERACT WITH MY SCUM BUDDIES! ALWAYS! I would have bussed the hell out of Thor if we were scum buddies.

probably a dumb question but what if 2 of your buddies were strung up would you bus them both?

Spoiler:

Also they say they think I'm playing towards my scum meta yet are bringing up me using self meta, which is a very town meta thing I do. My team doesn't agree with me voting Jason. I like causing commotion for the sake of reactions. I believe that should be obvious at this point.

Unvote

I'm feeling Delta-Scum, but that could be based off him just pushing me. Either way, I do need to put a vote down again.

VOTE: Trojan

Yeah. I did that.

I've stated why. My team, specifically GuyInFeezer, says that Jason and Mala are town.

I'm trusting it.

It's not exactly forming a counterwagon to thor either.

I don't think I'd call this hardcore tunneling of Jason.

pedit: you mean the mala thing just now?

[Save The Dragons]

You just have a meta answer for everything, don't you

[Save The Dragons]

Sorry the operative part was the 'just now' part

[Save The Dragons]

My concern with Egg is that he goes out on a limb to protect Thor.

We've also got comments like these:

Fenchurch, hammer your scumbuddy lol

Fenchurch, you have 8 minutes to bus.

If we leave Trojan alive and he's town we get....................probably him lynched later anyway???

The fenchurch stuff has been disproven entirely.
The latter doesn't make a lot of sense if Thor flips scum, which we now know, and he would have known.

The idea that Egg is, in a stressful situation, coming up with thoughts that come from a plausible town perspective, including a narrative where he's decided Trojan and Fenchurch are scum, gives me pause. If I'm fooled then I'm fooled but it's hard to look at his hammer play and not see a genuine approach/fear/dilemma.

But the other side of the coin is that he is trying hard to make sure Thor isn't lynched, and if he thinks he can protect Thor, it doesn't matter if Thor gets lynched later, there'll be time to deal with it. Egg scum may have indeed decided potential townpoints were worth more than having Thor alive.

[Save The Dragons]

Maybe, but I still think it would be hard to blame him for not budging when no one on Thor was budging.

[Save The Dragons]

It actually might be worth noting that Thor kind of ignored Boon back (the 'he' refers to Nacho btw):

he (far moreso than I) even is townreading Boon

It's not one he repeats here:

I have already openly indicated townreads on Micc, Egg, SK, and Mala. I don't really have any others to add that are really worth noting at this point. Eh, maybe with an arm twist Pie (against my thoughts, but most of my thread says that) and Fen (against my thread's thoughts, but I think that). Let's not call either of those particularly strong at this point.

Other than that, he pretty much mentions boon only in the context of Jason attacking him, repeatedly saying it's an attack on playstyle. He finds Boon's defense laudable, but my skim didn't really find other opinions on boon or a justification for the townread.

[Save The Dragons]

I will look over Delta again...I kind of thought that last post + being so brazenly tunnelly towards me meant that maybe he was unaware of thor's alignment and just misguided town respectively.

pedit
I don't blame you
If you're scum you're actually doing a decent job of getting me to trust you

[Save The Dragons]

STD, I don't see how you can possibly think that as scum I'd expect town points for Thor's flip. I know you said you weren't leaning that way, but I found that bit laughable. And I think sthar actually said something similar before deadline.

A very simplified version of my stance is that you are getting town points for your behavior wrt Thor as opposed to not voting Thor and letting a no lynch occur. Ergo, if you are scum, the point is valid.

It's a pretty weak point though.

[Save The Dragons]

Maybe Pie, but probably not.

What exactly about Pie's play looks like bussing

Pie was literally like a beacon of hope for me, multiple times parting the seas and leading the way towards Thor as a valid lynch, her posts like a flaming sword to cut through the verbose, timewasting arguments to expose the scummy intent beneath for all to see.

A pie bus would have to be a long con.

[Save The Dragons]

Also Pie seriously your tunnel on me pretty much all game is crap.

Pie was tunneling you probably about as much as boon was tunneling jason

[Save The Dragons]

I'd personally like to see Delta's VCA before I go much farther with him

I am hoping it explains why he thinks myself and pie are null in the wake of Thor's flip

[Save The Dragons]

I retract my previous belief that {Thor, Mala, Boons} is the scumteam...it's a pretty ballsy scum move to post the exact same readslist right after each other

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah, mala and I have like dead similar reads. Scum is most definitely going at her wagon. Time to rethink it. Also, Sthar's read's are very similar, I believe.

Both of you are townreading the only people on it

I'm even

dark green

!

[Save The Dragons]

Mala did you ever post a read on Thor D1

[Save The Dragons]

Trojan:

Delta voting Boon put boon at 1 since Egg just unvoted Boon in his previous post...the vote count is literally the post before Egg's. So he's basically jumping off a 4 person wagon to hit up a 2 person wagon a day before deadline...given that he's been pretty anti no lynch I really don't see your point.

---

I agree with 1025. I don't really see the point of Mala showcasing her meta wrt being read nor asking mastin to try again with her read. I disagree with the accusation of tunneling.

---

sth8r

Why do you consider a Hider a strong investigative role? And would you back up the claims you are making about zor and the setup?

---

delta

less getting baited more VCA please

---

lastly sk you're not as obvtown as you think you are if you are town don't push it

[Save The Dragons]

SK why did you feel the need to announce that you were going to prod dodge?
What's your opinion on malakittens that's more than just 'she's buzzwordy'?

[Save The Dragons]

Boon, will you humor me and enumerate the reasons why GIF thinks Mala is town?

[Save The Dragons]

I'm gonna be busy.

You realize that saying "because i'm obvtown" doesn't make this clear

I never called her buzzwordy. I called her out on one buzzword. I do, however, think she's scummy (I haven't read most of her argument with pie that happened after my vote though).

This is a non answer

[Save The Dragons]

It only crossed my mind just now

After I found out you were going to be busy

[Save The Dragons]

I know you think she's scummy I was hoping you'd elaborate. I thought my question implied 'why are you scumreading mala' by the context but I suppose I walked into that answer.

So

why are you scumreading mala (other than buzzword)

[Save The Dragons]

I think we really just need you to be present since Micc kind of dropped out partway through d1 and you ended up on the "wrong side of history" so to speak. You have time so I'm more interested in hearing your reads/opinions when you can produce them, rather than giving you an assessment of where I am at.

[Save The Dragons]

Why don't you want to interact with me?

I do but you haven't said anything yet to interact with

In my opinion, you should get caught up so we can interact like gents with much merriment and revelry and also so we can vet you and determine if you are scum

[Save The Dragons]

Why did you post that

[Save The Dragons]

pie: I guess I don't see much difference between you saying your read with mastin makes it more likely that the read is good therefore Mala is scum and mala saying that your inability to read her makes it more likely that the read is bad and therefore she is town. But if mastin told you to post that I suppose it make sense. I'm going to bed before I get more paranoid.

boon: has anyone ever told you that you rely on your self meta too much

[Save The Dragons]

to an extent so is STD, but I'm still not liking how a lot of his posts today are below the radar.

what does this even mean

I'm literally an open book, my reads haven't changed all that much. Delta and Wyse have promised content so I'm waiting for that.

Also I've posted a billion times today.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think that you not remembering my posts makes me 'under the radar.'

[Save The Dragons]

I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but you said below the radar first. Maybe I haven't been interacting with you very much today but I have been interacting with a lot of other people.

Probability wise and based on your responses I don't think it likely you will turn up town. It's certainly a possibility.

That's why I'm making my under the radar posts to
vet boon 908 911 913 916 1043
express suspicion of boon 934
object to wagons/suspicions on my townreads 931 956
ask vyse to provide content 1071 1076
disagree with you 970
vet you 1009
vet SK 1037 1051
even express concern in my highest townread 1105

Forgive me for sounding arrogant, but if you read through this day critically to find scum, why have you missed my posts?

If you problem is that I don't have a strong case on you, did you ever ask for a clarification?

You're spending a lot of time saying we should town read. You're tell us to rethink the read, but you're not giving me any reasons to do so. I'm not going to unvote you because I might be wrong and especially not because pie has a history of reading you poorly so therefore she can't be trusted to do so here. I may unvote you if you can convince me I'm wrong.

[Save The Dragons]

Course. Doesn't mean it's not a town tell. Also, I've shown that iI'll hard bus my scum buddy day 1 and day 2.

Actually it does: the fact that you are aware of your meta invalidates it so it's useless. Like you could literally...just...not do the thing you always do. Unless the power of meta compels you like...gasp my hands are moving on their own...i don't want to bus you but...it's typing v-o-t-e-: i can't help it i'm sorry i'm possessed by the ghost of my own past meta!

If you come back with a signed note from your exorcist I will believe you.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm pretty sure I already posted my readslists. I'm pretty sure I already given my pool for scum. I'm not yet ready to touch my townreads, but if one of my scum reads do flip town I'll reevulate.

If you are so set in your ways, then what if I told you I'm set in my ways too? I posted my readslist too, I've given my pool for scum.

Though: I've also just demonstrated how I'm trying to verify some of my reads.

Std go look at my play in Survivor. You have just recently played with town-me there. I swear if someone says Something mollie being the main reason for most of the pushes I'll probably go batshit cray.

I can't really get a good assessment of your town game from your play since regardless of how much you guys talked together, regardless of how influential you were to the game, mollie was the public face of PirateCat for the most part and I talked directly to her a bunch, I don't think we ever specifically interacted. It doesn't mean she was more important or less important, but it's going to be pretty hard for me to figure out what was her and what was you from an outside point of view.

Even if I did, this is exactly what I'm not looking for. I'm not going to contemplate what happened in survivor to reassess my town read on you here.

If I'm going to consider you town, I don't want a meta reason to believe you are town, I want a reason from this game to believe you are town.

[Save The Dragons]

confirm bias is possible but the argument isn't bs

i dunno if that was a joke or not but forgive me if I don't quite believe you that you have a strong compulsion for hammering (please don't provide a list of games where you do; that's not proof)

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fos brings back memories :'-)

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I actually don't...maybe that was when I was on hiatus or something

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Spoiler:

i call orange

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I dunno what else you want us to do, Jason. Delta and Vyse have promised content. I'm not certain that continuing to badger them for content is going to make them produce content any faster. I am quite eager to hear back from them as well.

Having 5-10 one line posts isn't going to derail the game. Prod dodging is kind of silly yes. But talking about FOSes and double hashtags builds community!

Have you given your opinion on mala, Jason?

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they're called octothorpes

your link actually called them double-hash in the poll.

i'm old okay

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okay maybe this discussion is getting a little distracting.

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As far as mala:
My reason for reading mala is scum is a bit of PoE. I think that scum are most likely off of the Thor wagon for now. I will reassess later.

I'll ignore the WIFOM that is presented when you consider who the person scum killed's main target was

When pressured, her response was pretty much "this is why pie's read on me is bad." and "mastin needs to read me from D1, otherwise the read is bad." and "pie you were tunneling me D1" when it really doesn't look like pie was. She didn't attack the argument, she's attacking the credibility of the source. I'm waiting for a reason for why she's town, so far I got "look at my town meta in this game where I was the less public head of a hydra."

As far as how the day is going:
Honestly, I'm waiting for mala to respond to me a bit, and I, along with everyone else, is waiting for Delta and Vyse to post.

SK called himself obvtown and Boon claims to be possessed by a spirit that causes him to hammer. Boon is defending mala hardcore. People are suspicious of Mala/Delta/Egg/Boon. I dunno, there's probably a lot of subtle stuff.

As far as Egg:
I was town reading Egg D1. His catch up posts seemed to come from a perspective that was trying to figure out the game, I feel. I also am a little more invested in this read than "if he were scum he could have gone to no-lynch." his actions, while rushed and pressured, seemed to come from a town mindset.

I suppose he was reading Thor as town for most of the game though, and I've already admitted that I think hammering scumbuddy thor at the last second to make him look a little better (since he really could have just been stubborn). I don't actually see a strong case on Egg by you, can you clarify (or point me to) your case?

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Also can you elaborate on your boon townread?

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I think egg started the wagon and delta went along with it.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but none of those tell me why you are townreading boon other than if egg is scum he tried a last minute boon lynch, which I'd be more than happy to talk about if egg turns out to be scum.

2 and 3 explain why you don't like boon suspicion by others but it doesn't make him obvtown.

Also I guess I kind of threw up a question in my big post so you might have missed it, but

I don't actually see a strong case on Egg by you, can you clarify (or point me to) your case?

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And now it's time to play everyone's favorite quiz game

What exactly about Pie's play looks like bussing

Boon, you're up.

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This being said, I think it's a possibility, but I'm not really convinced it's what's happening. Pie has a good chance at being town...but I just wanted to put out where I stand on that now.

Fair enough but my point is that if you think pie could be scum I need help seeing how pie's play D1 was scum in the context of Thor.

Otherwise I'm extremely unlikely to entertain the notion.

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You are just disagreeing with my reads more than anything else.

I don't think that I am, I'm not sure where you get this impression.

I have given my reasons for why I believe Delta is scum.

The reason I would have to scumread delta is part of the argument I'm considering you for. Delta is possible though, but I'm still waiting for his VCA/content.

I gave my reasons why I feel that Pie's read on me shouldn't be trusted completely because she's so confident that I'll flip scum that she's strongarming my lynch and not doubting the fact that she can be wrong in it.

If you feel she's strongarming your lynch that's fine. But "pie is incapable of reading me" has very little to do with your alignment this particular game.

re: survivor, sure, but again even if it weren't subtle I'm not sure what you being town in that game has to do with this game unless you spell it out for me, since it was pretty subtle. Having pushes, being right about TWIE, and being wrong about Titus doesn't help me here.

I'm really horrible at this "give me a reason for being town". I

already

know I'm town. I already have a bias approach to my ISO in that aspect. Plus convincing people of things has never once been my strong suit. I usually can't argue myself out of a lynch which is why as scum I usually take an approach to avoid conflict if I can because if I ended up getting myself too deep I'm either relying on my scum-mates to get me out of the hole or I'm lynched.

But that is exactly what I'm begging you to do

Or you know, Boon to do

or you know, someone else who's townreading her to do

I will be the first to admit my pillar to stand on in terms of scum reading you is not the strongest

But for the life of me I have yet to have a single reason to unvote you so if you are town or someone thinks you are town...I've got nothing.

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I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all.

???

Boon and Sth8r have opposed your wagon and Jason's basically ignored it

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The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar

sorry i'm going to read to the end from now on

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I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all. If I put this FoS as a vote I'd be at L-1, with Jason, Vyse & Delta not giving a stance on how they feel. The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar. So either there's major fucking bussing going on right now or this is just a bullshit fucking wagon that's on town.

So your one scum partner is bussing you
Or they could be boon or sth8r
Or your partner could be vyse/delta

Or you are town and we're mistaken and there's scum pushing you, but...
I'm not really seeing why this proves anything.

On a related note, I was in FF X AU, which I believe is the bork game with tammy you are referring to?

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i didn't say her day 1 was scummy. I felt her day 1 was super town, and i've stated that.

no

you're not getting it

if you say "pie might be scum" or "I'm starting to waver on my town read of pie"

then I will reply with "if pie is scum or if pie is not town, can you explain her behavior d1"

because i'm curious how to not town read her with how she played D1

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But yes if scum-delta pushed for a town-Boon to derail a lynch on D1. Jason was off the books at that point, he could have easily hammered thor, but after shouting how he didn't agree with a PR lynch D1 it would have looked fishy as hell to hammer there so his only option would to go after a viable mislynch:re:boon.

I'm not really sure why Egg isn't just as likely for this issue (apart from hammering thor)

If thor and trojan both are scum, they both are pretty guilty for trying to start a flash wagon but only one of them can be scum (I am assuming 4 scum isn't a thing in 13 player games).

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Thor also barely acknowledged Boon; if I recall almost all mentions of boon by thor are admonishments of jason's attacks against him. It's positive stuff without being direct about it.

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Point still stands that Thor was not discussed much until the end of the day and got no real steam until after my claim.

I disagree that Thor was not discussed much

I talked about Thor, Pie talked about Thor, sth8r's vote on thor gave it steam and it occured before your claim, there were a couple of "my team thinks thor might be scum", mala said she has issues reading Thor. I dunno how much steam I gave it but I know pie voting Thor made it seem like I wasn't crazy and made the wagon seem legit for me and that was well before your claim the first time.

I don't really think Boon not mentioning Thor necessarily means Boon is scum but I certainly think it's possible they could be scum who spent the game kind of ignoring each other.

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sthar8 old buddy old pal ol' chum

I don't actually see a strong case on Egg by you, can you clarify (or point me to) your case?

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sthar8 young buddy young pal youn' chum

ftfm

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@Pie - people who have played with ScumMala and TownMala a lot more, like Ika, is not a good enough case? You are ignoring people who have more experience with her. How is that not being "conf biased"?

Are people just not allowed to develop their own reads anymore? This is the exact same bad argument that Mala is presenting: you don't have enough experience reading me, therefore your read is wrong. that's a fallacy.

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Spoiler:

You wanna actually read what I said and try again there?

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As far as mala:
My reason for reading mala is scum is a bit of PoE. I think that scum are most likely off of the Thor wagon for now. I will reassess later.

When pressured, her response was pretty much "this is why pie's read on me is bad." and "mastin needs to read me from D1, otherwise the read is bad." and "pie you were tunneling me D1" when it really doesn't look like pie was. She didn't attack the argument, she's attacking the credibility of the source. I'm waiting for a reason for why she's town,

Couple with the only argument I've seen for Mala being town is literally "let someone else who reads mala better read mala" and we've gotten that from Mala and Boon.

WRT Delta, I don't know if Thor's scum partner spends the entire day literally doing almost nothing but trying to start a wagon on Thor's other scum read.

886 reads genuine to me.

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regarding: egg suspicion:

I think I'm going to need those specifics before I start considering to consider Egg, particularly 1, 2, and 4.

I think 6 applies to like 3/4ths of the town and 7 applies to like 3 or 4 people.

regarding: townreading boon:

sthar8 gave reasons for townreading boon 1154; but none of them are actual reasons to townread boon so I dunno.

if Mala gave reasons they escape me at the moment

jason did you give your opinion of boon d2?

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Pie's reasonings aren't actual reasons to scum read Mala, so i don't know what that's a out.

Actually, they are actual reasons, and they're actually based in this game.

I have yet to see a single reason to town read mala that has anything to do with her alignment in this game other than people have gut reads, I guess.

So when you present an argument like "ika knows better" it's a fallacy, since A) what if Mala is playing different than her meta B) what if ika isn't paying as much attention C) what if Mala is accidentally playing towards her town meta because she hasn't been around D) what if what if what if

When Pie presents an argument like "mala is trying to discredit her attack by suggesting that I am not able to read her and that she's not being correct about me tunneling her." Regardless of Mala's alignment, this is a fact. I think it means Mala's scum, personally.

So how is it possible that A FACT that is verifiable and part of this game a worse argument than your teammate's gut town meta read should be used in favor of pie's factual argument.

Point out the faulty reasoning.

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Tammy, if you get a chance, can you tell me if you think mala in FF X AU is similar or different to here in particular with regards to her getting strung up?

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Mod: V/LA from April 25th to Sunday May 3rd. Will have internet access but just in case.

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@STD - I don't feel Skrew is lurking at all.

wut

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(for clarity sake, I wasn't the one who said he was lurking).

(and even if I had, I can think of 100 things I would prefer to talk about with you that you're not responding to).