New York 180 (Endgame)

[goodmorning]

now that you mention it, I'm totally a seer.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Kitz]

kitz for mafia, tso for sk

Seems legit, mafia defending a SK.
Next shitty theory plz.

Hm, should I vote Ozgin or keep it at GJ...

[Marquis]

Ozgin claims to have shot you but not successfully.

You also claim to have shot gm but not successfully.

Bizarrely, this would make TSO being JK'd the simplest option.

GC claimed, however, that elusive was N4 shot though who knows if that was true.

Last night was Night 5.

I actually think the most accurate option is that Mafia have a second Non-Consec RB and used it on TSO, who was saved from dying N5 by a BP vest (whether infinite or x-shot).

[dragonspawn]

Did oz tell wolf he was the vigilante or house?

[dragonspawn]

Ozgin claims to have shot you but not successfully.

You also claim to have shot gm but not successfully.

Bizarrely, this would make TSO being JK'd the simplest option.

GC claimed, however, that elusive was N4 shot though who knows if that was true.

Last night was Night 5.

I actually think the most accurate option is that Mafia have a second Non-Consec RB and used it on TSO, who was saved from dying N5 by a BP vest (whether infinite or x-shot).

can you make his role any more complicated?

maybe tso is a mafia god or something. He can do whatever the heck he wants. Less convoluted that way.

[T S O]

maybe tso is a mafia god or something. He can do whatever the heck he wants.

We already knew this, though.

[Marquis]

I don't understand what you think is so complicated.

I see Mafia as having another manipulative role right now. Only one Mafia PR has flipped, which is a Non-Consecutive Roleblocker. It follows that with the Town Cop, Town Tracker, 2 Town Non-Consecutive Doctors, and so on, that Mafia not having another manipulative role would be horrible balance-wise. Given what we know of the setup and its tendency to use mirrored roles, Mafia having a second Non-Consecutive Roleblocker makes more sense than not.

And roleblocking TSO would have been optimal play for Mafia last night. I don't know whether they thought goodmorning or someone else was going to die or not, but assuming the below, killing TSO was likely not an option:

I see TSO as SK right now. This fits with how I view his reactions and the vigilante counterclaim. Additionally, most SKs have a bulletproof vest, whether X-shot or infinite. This fits with a point in the game where TSO was a good nightkill target for Mafia, but somehow the Mafia kill disappeared (most likely Night 3). It also fits with a point last night (Night 5) where, whether Ozgin is Vig or SK, he most likely tried to shoot TSO, but TSO didn't die.

[Marquis]

Additionally (I've said this before but), with there being a Town Vig (whoever it is), Town Vengeful, and Mafia kill, Serial Killer (whoever it is) very, very likely has a Bulletproof vest.

[dragonspawn]

Wasn't pssicop the role blocker or do you think we have a second one?

[dragonspawn]

Here is a crazy theory. Oz and wolf were scum pretending to be neighbors because of house faking some crumbs day 1. They never intended to public ally out the hood until I spilled the beans.

now we are getting close to lynching oz. The flip will show there is no hood. So the two of them are doi g what they can to confuse the heck out of us in hopes that we mislynch.

lynch GC. What do we have to lose? The nk will sort things out and expose any scum left who is left.

[T S O]

He thinks there's another.

Marquis; I want Ozgin fullclaiming before we go any further, I'm fairly sure there are large discrepancies in his claim.

[Marquis]

Wasn't pssicop the role blocker or do you think we have a second one?

A Town Cop that can (at the least) investigate for Mafia or not Mafia, usable every night.

A Town Deputy that gains the same Mafia investigation powers, usable every night.

A Town Cop that can potentially track Mafia to the kill, usable every night.

2 Town Doctors that can each prevent a Mafia kill from going through, usable every other night.

A Town Vigilante, either Non-Consecutive or 3-Shot, but still a major risk.

A Town Commuter, while I'm not sure if ika would allow to be roleblocked, still a potential reason for Mafia's kill to not resolve.

If you look at all of this from a Normal Reviewer or setup design perspective, ignoring the suboptimal play of several of these slots in the game itself, and even allow yourself to take the idea of 2 town non-consecs and 2 mafia non-consecs into account...

...then yeah, as I've said multiple times now: I do believe there's another one.

[goodmorning]

@Marquis: I think the word I used was 'simplest.'

[Marquis]

This setup is anything but simple.

2 Town Non-Consecutive Doctors vs. 2 Mafia Non-Consecutive Roleblockers.

Seems legit knowing ika. And even if it's not exactly that, I highly doubt Mafia don't have another manipulative (rb/jk) role.

[Shinobi]

Wait, since when did we have doctors?

[Kitz]

Wait, since when did we have doctors?

[Shinobi]

Here is a crazy theory. Oz and wolf were scum pretending to be neighbors because of house faking some crumbs day 1. They never intended to public ally out the hood until I spilled the beans.

now we are getting close to lynching oz. The flip will show there is no hood. So the two of them are doi g what they can to confuse the heck out of us in hopes that we mislynch.

lynch GC. What do we have to lose? The nk will sort things out and expose any scum left who is left.

Lame theory ftr. GC could just be town and wrong and we would be no closer to solving the TSO/Ozgin dilemma.

How does the nk solve anything?

[Shinobi]

The only reason the whole 'hood thing came to bear in the first place is

specifically

because GC claimed vigilante instead of Ozgin. It's counterintuitive for GC to step up to the plate and claim vigilante for no reason other than to confuse everyone and kill himself and his supposed partner.

Your theory doesn't really hold any water. I might even give you scumpoints for it.

[goodmorning]

Wait, since when did we have doctors?

Boonskiies - Town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 1

Nobody Special town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 4[/color]

[Shinobi]

I knew that.

I was testing you.

[Green Crayons]

Did oz tell wolf he was the vigilante or house?

Oz, not House.

Here's a quick synopsis of the relevant discussion:

On March 30, SW asked Oz if he believed TSO's claim.

On April 1, Oz made it very clear that he did not believe TSO's claim, with various and sundry reasons, but did not actually CC. He did say that he was 100% certain that TSO was the SK.

On April 4, Oz asked SW to help everyone think TSO was the SK. Oz acknowledged that SW was unconvinced, but Oz continued to play coy as to why. In a subsequent post, SW asked Oz directly as to whether he was the vig. In yet another post, Oz confirmed that he was, in fact, the vig.

There was additional chatter about SK having BP and worry about wasting the last vig shot because of TSO's BP.

[Shinobi]

I realized what DS is saying about the kills, so derpy me again.

I still say we lynch inside the vigilante claims because we are out of ideas otherwise.

[dragonspawn]

I still say we lynch gc. It might help us figure this all out. And he wants out of the game anyway.

Maybe it's not.ideal but what the heck better options do we have at this point?

[Shinobi]

Everybody wants out of this lulzy game but we can't just up and lynch all of them.

[dragonspawn]

We just need to lynch the scum and if we can't figure out who the scum are we.lynch the person most likely to give us the best information on it. Even if it was me that needed to be lynched. Let's just stop sitting back doing nothing and all vote for someone. Then when we are all voting we can argue which wagon is the best.