A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Throne Books. Spoilers)

[Oversoul]

Yeah, Feast picks up at the end and becomes great. You just have to trudge through a book full of SAM'S ON A BOAT OMG and BRIENNE TALKS TO POOR PEOPLE to get the great chapters. AFFC is Cersei's slow descent to madness, and it rules.

Brienne's chapters were all structured the same. Do nothing for the first pages, do something for the last 3. It was quite sad when I realized I would have to trudge through wandering to get to the good stuff.
Poor thing with Biter though. :/

And is Cersei really slipping into madness? As a result of Maggy? I don't think she's mad anymore than the fact that she's paranoid now that she's the one in power. She seemed perfectly in control when trying to frame Margery.

Also, I thought the Tyrell clan was supposed to be a super savy bunch? How did they let all of this happen - Loras, the framing, the small council being basically devoid of meaningful Highgarden lords?

I'm a little miffed that GRRM is taking the typical approach of "everything in the past was stronger" when it comes to all these legends. Why is Valyrian steel after all these years the best? Why are all the knights of old better than the current knights? Others are coming, Azhor, etc.

Qyburn is like the only one who is making the present strong through his experiments. It just bothers me that somehow after all this progress and years of learning, old things are still vastly better than new things.

[xRECKONERx]

I have a lot of fears about the future of the series. The reason I got into the series and love it so much is because of the political intrigue and drama. When I first began watching, I even said to a friend, "I really hope magic and shit doesn't come into play here, because I like that this is a political show set in medieval times." Then, dragons. Then, wargs. Then, CotF. I've let it keep going and going, but here's the problem with introducing these fantastical powers and mythic beings into the show:

It almost forces the endgame to be something huge, epic, and otherworldly. Why even BOTHER introducing the magical aspects if you're just going to have them sit second-hand to the human drama at the center of it all? And given that I see the Others, the dragons, the Children of the Forest, and Bran playing a part in the endgame... I just can't see how ANYTHING we've spent time caring about regarding King's Landing, the War of Five Kings, the different Houses and their drama, ANY of it... I can't see how any of it will make a damn bit of difference at the end of it all. You can't just have everyone put their differences aside and go, "But we must fight the Others/Dragons/Other Mystical Creature!" because it invalidates EVERYTHING that happened.

[zoraster]

i would save getting upset for when the thing actually happens, though i understand how it can make you uneasy.

[Sudo_Nym]

I think that the whole point of the show is that it's about a typical medieval fantasy world, but the "medieval" part winds up trumping the "fantasy" part because people are people (plus magic has been on the decline). There are prophecies, but nobody really understands them; magic exists, but nobody can really cast it; elves exist, but are extinct. Now the magic is coming back, with Melissandra and the Others and the dragons, but it's butting heads with the established fantasy politics.

For my money, I think the human drama is going to wind up being more important than the fantasy stuff; mostly, all the fantasy stuff is intended as a catalyst for the change, not the important change itself.

[Oversoul]

I mean to be honest, Littlefinger still exists so you have that Reck? Yay Littlefinger?

I understand what you are saying though. The major players are all being disbursed so the human element is being dwarfed by the larger presence of magic.

Back on the topic of Littlefinger, I like Sweetrobin and I don't want him to come to an end. The Vale is such an unexplored part of the series and the Arryns so far have been dealt the most shitty hand in life?

[Natirasha]

I mean did anyone not expect this? The first thing we read in the books is about ice zombie things attacking the rangers. Literally from minute one we've had the Others set up as the main menace. I've always seen one of the main points of the series is that there

is

an overarching fantasy plot going on, but since the characters in the books are, you know, actual people, they don't see it coming and have their own interests besides 'ice zombies are coming to kill us all'.

[Aegor]

That distinction and the growing importance of the fantasy elements and superhuman forces in relation to localized politics is one of the most fascinating aspects of the series for me. I think that the juxtaposition and the possible obsolescence of the political intrigue is actually one of the main themes of the series.

[Ser Davos]

I like how the relevance of supernatural/fantasy elements has been growing since the beginning, subtlely but continuously, more in the books than in the show actually. Those elements are part of that world and I'm not bothered by their inclusion, quite the contrary. In fact, I'm quite intrigued by how the fantasy elements will fit into the scene of political struggles and how characters will react when they have to face them, if they haven't yet.

[quadz08]

BUMP

[inte]

hello who is ur favorite game of thrones? mine is jonathan snow

[quadz08]

i highly recommend A Storm of Spoilers for the bookreadery types

FWIW

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah, Feast picks up at the end and becomes great. You just have to trudge through a book full of SAM'S ON A BOAT OMG and BRIENNE TALKS TO POOR PEOPLE to get the great chapters. AFFC is Cersei's slow descent to madness, and it rules.

Brienne's chapters were all structured the same. Do nothing for the first pages, do something for the last 3. It was quite sad when I realized I would have to trudge through wandering to get to the good stuff.
Poor thing with Biter though. :/

And is Cersei really slipping into madness? As a result of Maggy? I don't think she's mad anymore than the fact that she's paranoid now that she's the one in power. She seemed perfectly in control when trying to frame Margery.

Also, I thought the Tyrell clan was supposed to be a super savy bunch? How did they let all of this happen - Loras, the framing, the small council being basically devoid of meaningful Highgarden lords?

I'm a little miffed that GRRM is taking the typical approach of "everything in the past was stronger" when it comes to all these legends. Why is Valyrian steel after all these years the best? Why are all the knights of old better than the current knights? Others are coming, Azhor, etc.

Qyburn is like the only one who is making the present strong through his experiments. It just bothers me that somehow after all this progress and years of learning, old things are still vastly better than new things.

I enjoyed Brienne chapters quite a bit. I like when they describe the travelling, it's fun. It feels like a DND party, like adventure.

I hated Danaerys chapter in the stupid temple in Acok. Bran chapters are also super boring.

[quadz08]

Dat Syrio = Kindly Man callout in the episode from today, tho

[Albert B. Rampage]

This is the book thread. No spoilers from the show here quadz.

[quadz08]

>_>

<_<

So here's the rule: talk about things that have happened in the books without need for spoiler tags. Talk about the show without spoiler tags. It's a spoiler tag free love fest!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Annnd misleading thread title spoiled me.

[Iecerint]

The OP may need editing now that the show is veering past the books. That rule was in place because the show stuff was way behind the books.

[AniX]

Syrio = Kindly Man

I missed it. Could you refresh me?

[Sudo_Nym]

I think it's supposed to be a reference to the faceless man fan theories- that basically every mentor Arya has had (Syrio, Jaqen, and the Kindly Man in the House of Black and White) is actually the same person, a Faceless Man assassin who keeps changing shape and basically following Arya around.

I haven't watched the show past the first episode, so I'm not sure what's happening there, but I think it's made clear that it's not true in the books (since it's implied that the Faceless Man stays in Westeros to kill Pate and infiltrate the Citadel and/or infiltrate the Iron Islands to assassinate Balon).

[quadz08]

the theory is what Sudo said

the show has the Faceless Man say "there is only one god, and you know who that is" while pointedly looking at a recently deceased guy
Previously, Syrio told Arya "there is only one god, and that is Death."

It's possible that it's just an artifact of them both being Braavosi, but for Faceless Man to

know

that Arya will get the 'one god' reference is interesting.

[Sudo_Nym]

In the show, maybe. In the books, I think the closest they ever get to imitating each other is their use of "Just so", which is easily justified as Braavosi speech pattern.

[quadz08]

yeah - the books version of the theory is mostly fanboyism for Syrio coming out

I'm not sure if the show version is just a wink to that theory or if it's actually going to lead somewhere

[ChannelDelibird]

Doesn't really feel like the sort of thing this show would do. Pretty sure Jaqen is back because it stops them having to go through the introduction for a new character (the Kindly Man) rather than because they want to do a big reveal about how everyone in Arya's life is the same person. What would it add beyond a gasp?

[xRECKONERx]

ummm i just really hope they're not replacing Jeyne with Sansa because idk if I can watch the show if they have Sansa go through all that crap

ALSOOOO that was a really cool departure.

Brienne, Theon, Podrick, Sansa, Littlefinger, Roose...they're all going to be at Winterfell. Possibly when Stannis leads his host down?

They're finally doing right by Stannis' character in the show, FINALLY...and now they're building up Brienne to be the one to kill him. I'm upset

[xRECKONERx]

also: I can't see how a Sansa storyline would work with her fleeing Winterfell. Her coming back was such a huge moment for me. It was completing a circle. I felt chills seeing her in Winterfell again, and "The North Remembers" was great. If she's replacing Jeyne, then idfk, I don't think Theon just helps her escape. Sansa can't flee? I don't think she can flee.

I don't know where they're going with this and it makes me super happy

ALSO: the show is hitting big notes on the whole Greyscale thing. I wonder where that's going.