13p Normal [TM2015]

[pieguyn]

Because her teammates have a better track record than her in reading me. The one who used to be bad in the past was Mara, but I think she's improved since then, but not too certain. There's at least two people out of four on her team who can read me. Notscience is one and the other is Mastin. So her as town I would think she would rely on all of her team mates reads on me instead of just one, but it turns out timely enough that Mastin decides to shine her read is after the whole D1 stuff goes down.

you seem to be completely ignoring my response to this, btw

again, you're just repeating the same bullshit argument hoping people accept it as truth without reading or analyzing the game objectively

IT'S NOT BECAUSE HE WAS EXPLORING HIS OPTION FOR ANOTHER LYNCH.

IT'S THE TIMING AND THE WAY HE WENT ABOUT IT.

the problem with this is, you just said as much: it was a flashwagon that happened at the 11th hour before the deadline. why do you think DW would really care about getting a claim from/reevaluate his read on Boon when the Boon wagon was an attempt at a last-minute swap?

it really just amounts to DW attempting to lynch outside of {TH, Thor} bc he didn't think either were scum, which isn't really scummy, and you should know as much. the lack of being able to get a claim is moreso due to outside factors than anything DW did.

[Trojan Horse]

I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all. If I put this FoS as a vote I'd be at L-1, with Jason, Vyse & Delta not giving a stance on how they feel. The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar. So either there's major fucking bussing going on right now or this is just a bullshit fucking wagon that's on town.

The fact that no one is seeing this other than Boon/Sthar and not taking it into consideration is blowin' my fucking mind. In fact this feels exactly like how my lynch ended up in my last Bork game with Tammy. Tammy and I went head to head and I ended up being lynched when I had the majority of the fucking scum team pegged besides maybe one player.

I'm considering it. You could be scum without any bussing going on. Maybe Vyse is your scummate. I could definitely see that.

he pushed a fucking person who was V/LA and couldn't claim if the flashlynch/flashwagon was successful. I don't see the reason why you would derail another wagon just to push something else who couldn't be around for deadline, who couldn't claim, who couldn't defend themselves, who couldn't give their last reads. it felt like an unnecessary last minute push that was derailing yet again another lynch.

I mean if DW flips scum; I'd probably go after TH for connection with this read because it makes sense in my head. For trying to derail a lynch on someone who I undoubtedly know is likely town.

I'm trying to decipher that final comment. I'm assuming you meant "For trying to derail a lynch in order to lynch someone who I undoubtedly know is likely town." In other words, since Delta was pushing for a Boon lynch when I was in danger, if Delta flips scum, you'll come after me next.

Just making sure I understand you correctly. I think you misspoke there.

[pieguyn]

oh, the other thing I'm getting out of this is that Boon is likely not scum with Mala. actually, I doubt Boon is scum at all at this point (even if Mala flips town), but I don't feel strongly about it

[Malakittens]

Pretty much. There's really no reason for town to go ahead and try to run up a

fourth

person and then shout from the rooftops how lynching a PR D1 is bad when if he managed to flashwagon/flashlynch Boon, Boon wouldn't have had a chance to claim.

Theoretically speaking had this scenario happened what was the likelihood of Boon being able to claim while being Vla? Very low. That was a risk that I don't think anyone in a town mindset would have especially when town would have had a safe way out which was to lynch the claimed VT (which happened to be you there TH).

But yes if scum-delta pushed for a town-Boon to derail a lynch on D1. Jason was off the books at that point, he could have easily hammered thor, but after shouting how he didn't agree with a PR lynch D1 it would have looked fishy as hell to hammer there so his only option would to go after a viable mislynch:re:boon.

So yes I would have thought you would be a great scum partner to DW if DW is to flip scum.

[Trojan Horse]

So yes I would have thought you would be a great scum partner to DW if DW is to flip scum.

Eh. Fair enough.

I think I'm running out of questions to ask Mala. Vyse is the one I really want to interrogate.

[Save The Dragons]

This being said, I think it's a possibility, but I'm not really convinced it's what's happening. Pie has a good chance at being town...but I just wanted to put out where I stand on that now.

Fair enough but my point is that if you think pie could be scum I need help seeing how pie's play D1 was scum in the context of Thor.

Otherwise I'm extremely unlikely to entertain the notion.

[Save The Dragons]

You are just disagreeing with my reads more than anything else.

I don't think that I am, I'm not sure where you get this impression.

I have given my reasons for why I believe Delta is scum.

The reason I would have to scumread delta is part of the argument I'm considering you for. Delta is possible though, but I'm still waiting for his VCA/content.

I gave my reasons why I feel that Pie's read on me shouldn't be trusted completely because she's so confident that I'll flip scum that she's strongarming my lynch and not doubting the fact that she can be wrong in it.

If you feel she's strongarming your lynch that's fine. But "pie is incapable of reading me" has very little to do with your alignment this particular game.

re: survivor, sure, but again even if it weren't subtle I'm not sure what you being town in that game has to do with this game unless you spell it out for me, since it was pretty subtle. Having pushes, being right about TWIE, and being wrong about Titus doesn't help me here.

I'm really horrible at this "give me a reason for being town". I

already

know I'm town. I already have a bias approach to my ISO in that aspect. Plus convincing people of things has never once been my strong suit. I usually can't argue myself out of a lynch which is why as scum I usually take an approach to avoid conflict if I can because if I ended up getting myself too deep I'm either relying on my scum-mates to get me out of the hole or I'm lynched.

But that is exactly what I'm begging you to do

Or you know, Boon to do

or you know, someone else who's townreading her to do

I will be the first to admit my pillar to stand on in terms of scum reading you is not the strongest

But for the life of me I have yet to have a single reason to unvote you so if you are town or someone thinks you are town...I've got nothing.

[Save The Dragons]

I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all.

???

Boon and Sth8r have opposed your wagon and Jason's basically ignored it

[Save The Dragons]

The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar

sorry i'm going to read to the end from now on

[Boonskiies]

This being said, I think it's a possibility, but I'm not really convinced it's what's happening. Pie has a good chance at being town...but I just wanted to put out where I stand on that now.

Fair enough but my point is that if you think pie could be scum I need help seeing how pie's play D1 was scum in the context of Thor.

Otherwise I'm extremely unlikely to entertain the notion.

i didn't say her day 1 was scummy. I felt her day 1 was super town, and i've stated that.

[Save The Dragons]

I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all. If I put this FoS as a vote I'd be at L-1, with Jason, Vyse & Delta not giving a stance on how they feel. The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar. So either there's major fucking bussing going on right now or this is just a bullshit fucking wagon that's on town.

So your one scum partner is bussing you
Or they could be boon or sth8r
Or your partner could be vyse/delta

Or you are town and we're mistaken and there's scum pushing you, but...
I'm not really seeing why this proves anything.

On a related note, I was in FF X AU, which I believe is the bork game with tammy you are referring to?

[Save The Dragons]

i didn't say her day 1 was scummy. I felt her day 1 was super town, and i've stated that.

no

you're not getting it

if you say "pie might be scum" or "I'm starting to waver on my town read of pie"

then I will reply with "if pie is scum or if pie is not town, can you explain her behavior d1"

because i'm curious how to not town read her with how she played D1

[Save The Dragons]

But yes if scum-delta pushed for a town-Boon to derail a lynch on D1. Jason was off the books at that point, he could have easily hammered thor, but after shouting how he didn't agree with a PR lynch D1 it would have looked fishy as hell to hammer there so his only option would to go after a viable mislynch:re:boon.

I'm not really sure why Egg isn't just as likely for this issue (apart from hammering thor)

If thor and trojan both are scum, they both are pretty guilty for trying to start a flash wagon but only one of them can be scum (I am assuming 4 scum isn't a thing in 13 player games).

[pieguyn]

I hope everyone realizes that there's like no fucking resistance to my wagon at all. If I put this FoS as a vote I'd be at L-1, with Jason, Vyse & Delta not giving a stance on how they feel. The only people really opposing my lynch right now is Boons and to an extent Sthar. So either there's major fucking bussing going on right now or this is just a bullshit fucking wagon that's on town.

mastin wanted me to point out that this is wrong as well

she says the reason Mala's wagon even got to 4 votes is bc I've been fighting really hard to *get* it that large in the first place. and that, in actuality, there is a lot of resistance to the Mala wagon - most of the people on it are ambivalent and Boon, among other people, are defending her. I personally would point more towards the counterwagon on Delta as evidence that there is indeed resistance towards a Mala wagon here.

[Egg]

V/LA through Monday with possible access Friday only

I'll be able to check in briefly every once in a while, but it's gonna be limited.

[SleepyKrew]

beep

[Trojan Horse]

Well, you guys are making me feel less guilty about only being able to post once per day (mostly due to work). At least I'm not alone.

Looking back over today's events, it looks like I must have been asleep at the start of the day. Boon was attacked by STD and SK for not interacting with Thor, and apparently, I didn't pay any attention to that. (And this is something I really should have paid attention to; apparently, Boon didn't mention Thor

at all

during Day 1.)

Maybe I've just gotten used to Boon's self-meta?

Time for me to take another look at Boon.

[Malakittens]

I'm prod dodging myself, j haven't slept and I got work later today, but I should be around on Thursday after I go see a notary, talk to my boss and then go see the head of chair of the fire station. >___>

[VysePresident]

(Semi-)Prod dodging again.

Sorry, but this bug has really been kicking my butt, and I'm already suffering from sleep deprivation. That, and 48 pages is a lot. I tend to be slow to get involved, but it's particularly hard to dive into the game at a point where I'd normally have read the thread at least half a dozen times.

I'll throw in my reads as of yesterday, (I'm a little more than halfway through the game.) so you can get an idea of where my head's at, but I'm not particularly thrilled with any of them yet. None of them are particularly solid, except for Townreads on Pie & STD.

[spoiler='Stuff"]Sthar(?-), Pie(+), STD(+), and Jason(-) seem Townish to me. Pie & STD get points for pushing the Thor lynch hard at a time when I don't feel it was necessary or predictable. I also like the respective ways they're engaging & sorting through the game. Jason gets Townpoints for being Thor's primary push, though he's kinda meh for me on his own, at least at first glance. Sthar is getting a vaguely Tonwish gutread largely resting on a flow to his thoughts I like. (Need to actually sort this one out.)

Nulls of varying flavors include: Delta, TH(+), SK(?), Mala(-)

Delta is just a void for me. I haven't seriously looked at him. TH gets points for being the counterwagon to Thor, but that's not an actual read. SK is just empty -- They're blatantly coasting, and it's annoying. I'm not impressed. My read on Mala is nebulous gut that's likely been heavily influenced by trying to follow Pie's recentish case on her. That, and I got the impression from my Newbie game that she was supposed to be a bit of a firebrand as Town...? (For reference, I was her scumbuddy in that Newbie game, and basically got myself lynched by defending her hard when she was completely apathetic to the game after an initially decent start. I was told that she was typically much stronger & more confident as Town than as Scum, but I'm not sure what to translate that to, with people apparently Townreading her based on meta. If someone wants to elaborate on that, it'd be cool.)


--Scumwise, I'm looking at Egg(-) & Boon(?). There's something kinda stiff about Egg's approach to the game that's pinging me, and I didn't like where he's been ending up in my readthrough, so far. I can't really say I have a lot of experience with Boon, (and I can't really use that anyway, due to forum rules.) but I feel like he's projecting the VI thing a bit hard, even for him. I also feel like he's being a bit more involved than I expected. Call him iffy.

Egg's probably the closest thing I have to a serious scumread at the moment, but I don't like how much trouble I'm having pulling thoughts together on him.

So, that's about where I'm at, and why I'm not posting much at the moment. (Outside of RL crap.) I want to get a better grasp on the game's narrative & interplay, and right now, I feel like I have a pretty shallow overview. Stuff like Pie's cases are pulling me in just because they're involved, and that's moderately frustrating.

Eh, hopefully that makes sense. Heading for bed now.[/spoiler]

[pieguyn]

quarter-prod dodge

[pieguyn]

Looking back over today's events, it looks like I must have been asleep at the start of the day. Boon was attacked by STD and SK for not interacting with Thor, and apparently, I didn't pay any attention to that. (And this is something I really should have paid attention to; apparently, Boon didn't mention Thor at all during Day 1.)

I've seen this before (including a game where I was the final vote in 3P LYLO, factored it in to my final vote, and voted wrong. the only time I've ever been in 3p LYLO ) and I'm fairly sure it doesn't actually have a greater-than-average chance of coming from scum. the most recent example of this is the game Boon mentioned earlier where he and I were scum and a random town player (eektor) wound up having no interactions at all with Boon until like D4. it usually winds up being completely random who people have no interactions with

I think he didn't interact with you (or Micc) at all, either, save for one read given in 262, although I might be wrong given I just looked in ISO. and to be fair, Boon was V/LA for the last part of D1 when one would generally be expected to comment on Thor if they had anything to say.

[pieguyn]

what do you think of 1164?

*IF* Mala is scum here, this doesn't look like something someone says about a partner I think. it looks more like scum going out of their way to put effort into a town read on a town player in order to buddy/manipulate them than scum inventing reasons to town read a partner.

[Save The Dragons]

Thor also barely acknowledged Boon; if I recall almost all mentions of boon by thor are admonishments of jason's attacks against him. It's positive stuff without being direct about it.

[Nexus]

Votecount 2.5:

Malakittens (4)-

Save The Dragons, pieguyn, SleepyKrew, Egg

VysePresident (1)-

Trojan Horse

DeltaWave (3)-

Boonskiies, Malakittens, jasonT1981,

Egg (1)-

sthar8

Not voting (2)-

VysePresident, DeltaWave

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is at 6pm on the 30th April 2015. (expired on 2015-04-30 13:00:00)

Egg is v/la until Monday

[Egg]

Thor was more than active enough, and widely discussed, that zero mentions of him stands out.