New York 180 (Endgame)

Kitz · Post Post #6375 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:23 am

In post 6374, goodmorning wrote:People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

ika · Post Post #6376 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:33 am

vc (im getting titus to fill it, i have a lot of stress atm)

Kitz: dragonspawn, Kitz
Shinobi: Marquis
Marquis: Cheetory6

Will verify and format in a bit.

~Titus

goodmorning · Post Post #6377 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:01 am

In post 6375, Kitz wrote:
In post 6374, goodmorning wrote:People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

Kitz · Post Post #6378 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:05 am

In post 6377, goodmorning wrote:
In post 6375, Kitz wrote:
In post 6374, goodmorning wrote:People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

Elaborate. Composition? Doc?

dragonspawn · Post Post #6379 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:10 am

Ika I invited at some point

Shinobi · Post Post #6380 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:18 pm

In post 6377, goodmorning wrote:
In post 6375, Kitz wrote:
In post 6374, goodmorning wrote:People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

dot dot dot
I'm super curious as to what you have to say about this tbh.

Shinobi · Post Post #6381 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:18 pm

I'm not going to follow up on this Kitz/GM stuff until later.

dragonspawn · Post Post #6382 (ISO) » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:33 pm

unvote

Green Crayons · Post Post #6383 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:36 am

In post 6372, goodmorning wrote:@Marquis: dragon post is 4518.

What is it about this post that makes you think dragon is town?

dragonspawn · Post Post #6384 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:48 am

What reason is there to think I'm scum?

goodmorning · Post Post #6385 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:20 am

In post 6378, Kitz wrote:
In post 6377, goodmorning wrote:
In post 6375, Kitz wrote:
In post 6374, goodmorning wrote:People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

Elaborate. Composition? Doc?

Composition is what something is made of.
Doc is short for document.

In post 6380, Shinobi wrote:
In post 6377, goodmorning wrote:
In post 6375, Kitz wrote:
In post 6374, goodmorning wrote:People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

dot dot dot
I'm super curious as to what you have to say about this tbh.

Just that. In the VCs it peaked at:
T S O (6): Shinobi, Pisskop, Green Crayons, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Ellie
So we have a lot of info here.
? S pT S T T

It's mildly unlikely that pisskop directly follows a partner onto a wagon at that point in the game.
On the other hand, your position on the viking lynch is iffy now that I go look at it.
vikingfan (LYNCH): Dragonspawn, Nobody special, T S O, Green Crayons, Naked jogger, ABR, mathblade, ozgin, shinobi, Marquis
? T 3p pT T T T S ? ?
It typically takes more than one Scum to push a PR lynch through though that's by no means 100%. When we see this the jump on is usually at the end for that last bit of juice necessary to get it done.

Anyway I don't weight this very heavily. Votecounts get manipulated all the time.

In post 6383, Green Crayons wrote:
In post 6372, goodmorning wrote:@Marquis: dragon post is 4518.

What is it about this post that makes you think dragon is town?

The emotion rings true.

Green Crayons · Post Post #6386 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:25 am

In post 6384, dragonspawn wrote:What reason is there to think I'm scum?

In post 6348, Green Crayons wrote:I don't know how to feel about dragon.

Cheetory6 · Post Post #6387 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:08 am

Marquis wrote:
Klingon wrote:(Actually I do have him and TSO at leaning scum, along with FA_Q2 and the House slot.)

pisskop wrote:Can you lay down your reasons for all four of these slots?

The above mentions avoid direct interaction with FA_Q2 and all lightly defend him, without ever committing to or giving a read on FA_Q2 despite those defenses.

What bothers me about this is that it implicitly should also cause Marquis to point the finger at Ozgin/House as well as FA, but he doesn't include that in his analysis which makes me feel like he was selectively focusing on FA rather than legitimately trying to sort through things.

I feel slightly less sure about this push because it feels urgent in a way that doesn't really necessarily make sense in the context of the votes at the time though. There's only 1-2 vote-wagons and nothing that should be promoting Marquis to push a case really hard as scum entering into the game. It could just be that scumMarquis would want to make a big splash on entry to get towncred? Meh.

Marquis wrote:an early vt claim too.

that makes me lean a bit back in the opposite direction but am i right to?

This looks fake to me :/

Aeronaut voting for Marquis is a little weird. It's sheeping off of dragon's switch onto him, which makes me feel like it's plausible that it could be bussing.

Marquis wrote:is this a variation on the "honestly" tell because it sure looks like it. there was no need to justify voting me like that, since out of context you could say i'm objectively scummy

i'd say the fa_q2 case is still good and if anything's opportunistic it's certain people taking advantage of my insecurity to jump on my wagon

Actually yeah, Marquis choosing to only address Aeronaut's vote here and not Dragon's makes this look a lot like it could be bussing IMO.

Marquis wrote:why did fa_q2 even claim vt in the first place like ew

You said you liked him claiming VT early before though? Why the change of heart?

NVM caught this later in the ISO that he was referring to the wording of VT and not the claim itself.

Marquis wrote:
leanscum. none of these are particularly strong, but this is more of a PoE lynchpool

Aeronaut (opportunistic)
dragonspawn (shallow and unhelpful)
FA_Q2 (the pisskop associative case still stands. earlier i was having second thoughts due to his vt claim, but i've realized this lynch definitely needs to happen unless he gives a great answer as to why he claimed the way he did)

I don't like that dragon is on here when he hasn't really been trying to engage him or question him. I especially don't like that he's lower on this list than Aero given the comparative engagement.

His reads switch really often and quickly, but there really isn't much mention of either Ozgin or Aeronaut in many of these switches. Aeronaut not being mentioned when he goes into how his reads are adjusting and moving around just feels kind of slimy to me.

Tinfoilhatme feels like Marquis forcing people to claim may have been him trying to take advantage of the TSOsituation to get a massclaim out? Maybe? Heh.
I really dislike that Marquis keeps calling himself obvtown, but that's probably realistically null and more just annoying q.q

Marquis wrote:right now i'm thinking aero is the red herring distracting from my own red herring-ness. this wagon was too easy. but tso's going to get my mislynch if i don't kiss his ass here, and i still kinda think shinobi's town.

dragon, cheetory, kitz and maybe maybe aero - all scum?

Ew ew ew ew ew.
No. Okay. I'm almost positive that Marquis's weirdshifts on Aero and him saying stuff like this is trying to softdefend him while sitting on a vote on him. It looks so fucking slimy to me. :/

Marquis wrote:aero if you're town pls drop it and restate your reads as of this page

"Hey aero lemme help u out of this hole bud.."

Then on D6, Marquis was trying superrrr hard to get TSO lynched. Like holy shit, was this a desperate endgame gambit or something? I don't want to quotewall, but people should ISO Marquis and look at his stake in the OzginVTSO situation.

Started this ISOdive feeling okay about scumMarquis based on interactions today and POE but I'm feeling pretty damn good about this vote now.
People should get on board this.

Cheetory6 · Post Post #6388 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:10 am

Like, look at TSOVOzgin and realize that Marquis voted for TSO so many times and even GC once but never Ozgin and then tell me that Marquis is town still.
There's no fucking way he's town.

Cheetory6 · Post Post #6389 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:10 am

There's also all of the bullshit he's been spouting today, flipping me from scum to town the moment I start getting engaged again.
His fucking weird hedgey read on Kitz.

Cheetory6 · Post Post #6390 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:14 am

I'm gonna take a look at Kitz/Dragon/Shinobi tonight.

Marquis · Post Post #6391 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:17 am

your wall looks good but i'm not scum

go look at me in DoA again if you want

also i don't bus as scum especially since i was about to be lynched. i'm a team player, switching to aero there and how i did would just be a path to a loss/significantly more mislynches needed to win

and sorry for lurking! not really feeling this game right now

still holding shinobi up for scum via PoE

Marquis · Post Post #6392 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:19 am

In post 6387, Cheetory6 wrote:What bothers me about this is that it implicitly should also cause Marquis to point the finger at Ozgin/House as well as FA, but he doesn't include that in his analysis which makes me feel like he was selectively focusing on FA rather than legitimately trying to sort through things.

well yeah

it was a case on fa

i quoted the things that mentioned fa and only commented on fa even if other mentions were quoted with it

Cheetory6 · Post Post #6393 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:25 am

How will looking at you in DoA help me tell whether you're groupscum or not?
Did you and Aero even interact at all that game?

Marquis wrote:also i don't bus as scum especially since i was about to be lynched. i'm a team player, switching to aero there and how i did would just be a path to a loss/significantly more mislynches needed to win

I'll check to see how this looks in the context of notISO shortly, but my kneejerk reaction is that this summary of how you prefer to play scum pretty accurately describes how you interacted with Ozgin last cycle and that it seems plausible that Aero's interactions with you may have looked so bad to you that you felt like you had no choice but to vote him or else look awkward for interacting around them.

Marquis wrote:well yeah

it was a case on fa

i quoted the things that mentioned fa and only commented on fa even if other mentions were quoted with it

I guess it just irks me that you never suspected Ozgin or tried to push him despite finding this suspicious with FA but not wrt him.
Like, it just bothers me that I'm almost positive there was no point in your ISO in which you tried to push him.

Marquis · Post Post #6394 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:53 am

In post 6393, Cheetory6 wrote:Did you and Aero even interact at all that game?

he literally told me he was my "partner" in his first post

i picked up on it right away and proceeded to defend him for bullshit reasons even when his slot seemed indefensible because him getting lynched day 1 would haved sucked so much; that's essentially like a 1-shot bp sk losing their vest on DAY 1, not even night 1.

i mean i even remember getting yelled at by anti for it and still trying to defend him anyway to at least spare him a day

Cheetory6 · Post Post #6395 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:15 am

But why wouldn't you just adopt the exact opposite strategy here as scum to claim exactly what you're claiming now wrt Aero?
Seriously, the way you described how you interacted with Aero in DoA hardcore reminds me of what I saw in your ISO wrt Ozgin.
:/

Marquis · Post Post #6396 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:58 am

it's all or nothing

i either harddefend all of my partners or none of them

i think you fail to understand that this is a compulsion as scum that's hard for me to overcome and nearly impossible here comsidering my earlier feelings toward this game

Marquis · Post Post #6397 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:59 am

like if there were only one scum left i'd probably go down without a fight and just let you lynch me and move on

but the way balance is going i think gm's right on 5v2, 1 goon 1 nonconsec rb

Marquis · Post Post #6398 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:01 am

also i'm fairly sure kitz's experience/interpretation of mass murderer is spot on and explains the death history

i just dont know if its bp or not which is pretty much the only thing i wish ika would clarify

Marquis · Post Post #6399 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:41 am

In post 6389, Cheetory6 wrote:There's also all of the bullshit he's been spouting today, flipping me from scum to town the moment I start getting engaged again.
His fucking weird hedgey read on Kitz.

also I hate being one of those players that says "that doesn't apply to me as scum"

but

well

it doesn't apply to me as scum :/ as town, i'm constantly going back on forth on my reads whether i want to be or not. i'm never sure, mostly because i don't have that much confidence in my towngame as opposed to my scumgame. in fact if it weren't for how lately i'm pretty sure i have a significantly better grip on what your towngame's like, i'd be surprised that i haven't flipped back and thought you were scum for attacking me again like this. but i've seen you as town and i'm confident enough that you're both town here and worth trying to change your read on me.