13p Normal [TM2015]

[Egg]

Jason, did you make a Delta case that is more convincing than Pie's town case for Delta? It's entirely possible that I forgot about it.

[Save The Dragons]

As far as mala:
My reason for reading mala is scum is a bit of PoE. I think that scum are most likely off of the Thor wagon for now. I will reassess later.

When pressured, her response was pretty much "this is why pie's read on me is bad." and "mastin needs to read me from D1, otherwise the read is bad." and "pie you were tunneling me D1" when it really doesn't look like pie was. She didn't attack the argument, she's attacking the credibility of the source. I'm waiting for a reason for why she's town,

Couple with the only argument I've seen for Mala being town is literally "let someone else who reads mala better read mala" and we've gotten that from Mala and Boon.

WRT Delta, I don't know if Thor's scum partner spends the entire day literally doing almost nothing but trying to start a wagon on Thor's other scum read.

886 reads genuine to me.

[Trojan Horse]

Tammy is reading town on Mala. Tammy is contradicting my reads again. So what else is new. Given what happened day 1 with Thor, I wouldn't be surprised if she is right and I am wrong.

Tammy also told me that she is reading town on Boon. But she told me that before Boon made his last few posts. In particular, Tammy hadn't yet seen this...

@Pie - people who have played with ScumMala and TownMala a lot more, like Ika, is not a good enough case? You are ignoring people who have more experience with her. How is that not being "conf biased"?

Are people just not allowed to develop their own reads anymore? This is the exact same bad argument that Mala is presenting: you don't have enough experience reading me, therefore your read is wrong. that's a fallacy.

This is what I'm implying. There is no reason to vote for Mala.

...which I think is a ridiculous post. I don't know yet if this will change Tammy's mind or not.

Mala, let me echo SK here:

Also, have you explained these connections that rely on a DW flip?
(I have not been following along very closely!)

I too want you to explain these connections. These must be some strong connections, if they make you NOT want to lynch a top scumread.

[sthar8]

sthar8 old buddy old pal ol' chum

I don't actually see a strong case on Egg by you, can you clarify (or point me to) your case?

OK so

1. Egg spent day1 making easy wagon pushes, but his reads didn't evolve with new information or change with pushback, except to get ignored in favor of more likely wagons.

2. bullshit semantics intentionally frustrating arguments

3. Defense of Thor, mostly for bullshit claim reasons that were unevenly applied to jason

4. no scumhunting

5. "I wouldn't hammer a buddy to get townread" -Egg "Egg can't be scum, he hammered Thor"- pie

6. His lynch pool today are two proficiency lynches and a lurker push. On day 2. After a scumflip.

7. Hard defense of delta for shitty reasons after a scumflip. He's either protecting his buddy or trying to look like he's protecting his buddy.

I've been functionally mobile for four days, so no links. If you need specifics, ask please.

It just feels like you're waiting til his wagon grows and then you'd be willing to jump on it. That's why your comments have been kinda bothering me so much including that one.

im not voting skrew today. let's be clear on that. there are too many better wagons.

I disagree. I think Skrew is a decent wagon. I'd prefer if Delta was lynched over Egg, honestly. Pie semi convinced me on possible Town Egg, but meh. He just seems super scummy. I want Delta or Vyse on a stick toDay.

Vyse and skrew are lurker wagons. We're not doing that.

I'm....... pretty sure I didn't? my read on you was mostly bc I thought your push on Egg was forced. it sure as hell isn't the same as this, nor was it anywhere near as strong.

My point is, yesterday you told me that my actions were just not town motivated, and my reaction was to think you were nuts. I'm not gonna take that as a scumtell since I know that as of last day phase, it wasn't.

I don't think you're scum, but I do think you're biased here because of the way Egg was pushing you earlier and because of how bad his soft defense of Thor looks, and as a result you aren't objectively looking at the whole picture with respect to how the end of D1 played out. him hammering isn't WIFOM, and it will never be.

Sure. Maybe I'm biased because of how scummy egg was day1. But I'm not the only one seeing this, so it's probably not personal bias. And both you and he have made the point that it doesn't look like a planned bus. I agree with that. It looks like a snap decision under pressure.

I think egg's actually anti-town day1 coupled with his thor associatives are more solid than anything else on the table.

Also, @sthr, why do you think you have been added to my teammates scumdar?

I'm sure I don't care. Why do you think I should?

Is it too late to lynch Boon?

Holy opportunism.

and I feel there is one scum between Delta and SK.. who do you think has the better chance of flipping scum?

Delta by miles. Why do you not want to vote Egg?

WRT Delta, I don't know if Thor's scum partner spends the entire day literally doing almost nothing but trying to start a wagon on Thor's other scum read.

Why not? This reads as incredibly advantageous for scum.

[Egg]

Sthar

1. What was "easy" about placing a first vote on you? How did my reads on you and Trojan specifically not "evolve"?
2. Huh? Where?
3. I don't see why you think I'd hard defend a buddy like that
4. Bullshit
5. *shrug* it really wouldn't be worth the loss even if I knew that exactly one player would react that way
6. Well yeah. We lynched scum Day 1. I want to lynch someone on Day 2 who wasn't on the wagon. I don't see the issue. Do you think both scum bussed Thor?
7. I don't see where I'm hard defending Delta. I'm just not interested in his lynch today. He'd be a fourth choice at best.

How is pushing my strongest scum read for most of this game opportunistic? Does he even have any votes on him?

That post was just baaaaad. Too bad you're probably town...

[DeltaWave]

Why is anyone reading Boon as town? How is this possible?

[Egg]

I've been wondering that.

[DeltaWave]

If you want to be generous call him null, but I don't see how deliberate meta-manipulation can generate townpoints.

[Save The Dragons]

regarding: egg suspicion:

I think I'm going to need those specifics before I start considering to consider Egg, particularly 1, 2, and 4.

I think 6 applies to like 3/4ths of the town and 7 applies to like 3 or 4 people.

regarding: townreading boon:

sthar8 gave reasons for townreading boon 1154; but none of them are actual reasons to townread boon so I dunno.

if Mala gave reasons they escape me at the moment

jason did you give your opinion of boon d2?

[Boonskiies]

Pie's reasonings aren't actual reasons to scum read Mala, so i don't know what that's a out.

[jasonT1981]

Emergancy V/LA Until monday. Not going into details, I'll say after game but something has happened that will take me away from game for a few days

[SleepyKrew]

TH, why's Tammy townreading Mala?

[VysePresident]

Prod dodge. Again.

I'm going to push to catch up tomorrow, and be available on the weekend. If not, I'm going to look into getting replaced.

[Trojan Horse]

TH, why's Tammy townreading Mala?

She didn't give me any specifics. She says she's going to do some more detailed reading this weekend.

I'll ask.

[pieguyn]

who does Tammy think is scum if it's not Mala?

(also fair warning, if this has anything to do with "genuine frustration", I've thought about that already and I don't really think it's a good reason for town reading her. to the extent it's done here, I maintain it's really really easy to fake as scum - and, in fact, I have faked similar amounts of frustration in my last scum game in response to multiple people pushing me, although I suppose it's not exactly the same bc their reasons were pretty awful and they actually *were* tunneling on it without critically thinking, but regardless, I knew it'd get people to read me as town. and no, before Boon/Mala say anything over this, I'm not claiming Mala is scum for getting frustrated, just that she's not town for it and that if I town read her it'd be for other reasons.)

[pieguyn]

My point is, yesterday you told me that my actions were just not town motivated, and my reaction was to think you were nuts. I'm not gonna take that as a scumtell since I know that as of last day phase, it wasn't.

as I said, my reasoning for scum reading you on D1 was completely different than my reasoning for scum reading Mala here. in your case, I thought you were attempting to coast while taking weak jabs at people in order to look like you were scum hunting, and I thought your push on Egg was forced. in Mala's case, she is pushing copious amounts of arguments that are objectively wrong, despite the evidence in the game thread clearly indicating as much, not giving a shit when corrected on it, and doing so in a way that has explicit scum motivation - and on top of that, the only scum hunting she's done recently AT ALL (distinct from you - you had scum hunting, but I found most of it weak. in her case, it literally just isn't there) has been the push on DW and the reasoning she used for it was hypocritical.

/golfclap

key point here is that if you examine the reasoning, it's not the same thing at all, even if the overall conclusion is the same (and you'll notice that my - correct - scum read on Thor drew a similar conclusion. the way he was pushing people and asking questions here wasn't fucking coming from town, especially after jason claimed bodyguard and he kept pushing him anyway)

Sure. Maybe I'm biased because of how scummy egg was day1. But I'm not the only one seeing this, so it's probably not personal bias. And both you and he have made the point that it doesn't look like a planned bus. I agree with that. It looks like a snap decision under pressure.

I think egg's actually anti-town day1 coupled with his thor associatives are more solid than anything else on the table.

as I said, Egg had a large amount of time to figure out what he should do in a situation like that - iirc, there were at least 48 hours or so from the time Thor claimed and we started wagoning him again until the time he got lynched, plus there was a pretty long period where Thor and TH were both at L-2/L-1 or so and either could have been lynched

pushing that Egg made a snap decision under pressure relies on the assumption that he didn't take any time at all when all this was happening to consider what he'd actually do. I'm mostly interested in why you think he wouldn't actually do this.

[Save The Dragons]

Pie's reasonings aren't actual reasons to scum read Mala, so i don't know what that's a out.

Actually, they are actual reasons, and they're actually based in this game.

I have yet to see a single reason to town read mala that has anything to do with her alignment in this game other than people have gut reads, I guess.

So when you present an argument like "ika knows better" it's a fallacy, since A) what if Mala is playing different than her meta B) what if ika isn't paying as much attention C) what if Mala is accidentally playing towards her town meta because she hasn't been around D) what if what if what if

When Pie presents an argument like "mala is trying to discredit her attack by suggesting that I am not able to read her and that she's not being correct about me tunneling her." Regardless of Mala's alignment, this is a fact. I think it means Mala's scum, personally.

So how is it possible that A FACT that is verifiable and part of this game a worse argument than your teammate's gut town meta read should be used in favor of pie's factual argument.

Point out the faulty reasoning.

[Save The Dragons]

Tammy, if you get a chance, can you tell me if you think mala in FF X AU is similar or different to here in particular with regards to her getting strung up?

[Save The Dragons]

Mod: V/LA from April 25th to Sunday May 3rd. Will have internet access but just in case.

[Nexus]

Votecount 2.6:

Malakittens (4)-

Save The Dragons, pieguyn, SleepyKrew, Egg

VysePresident (1)-

Trojan Horse

DeltaWave (3)-

Boonskiies, Malakittens, jasonT1981,

Egg (1)-

sthar8

Not voting (2)-

VysePresident, DeltaWave

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is at 6pm on the 30th April 2015. (expired on 2015-04-30 13:00:00)

Egg is v/la until Monday
jasonT1981 has emergency v/la
STD is v/la until Sunday 3rd May.

[Egg]

Hmm. Five days to deadline.

Sthar, you said at the beginning of the day that Delta was scum. You seemed very sure of it but haven't really commented on him since. Do you have a case against him? Are you still scum reading him. You also said you don't like the Mala wagon. Do you think she's town? Am I right in assuming you'd prefer a Delta lynch to a Mala lynch?

Trojan, you FoS'd Mala after Oversoul said she was scum. Now Tammy thinks Mala is town. Are you personally scum reading Mala? Do you trust your read more than Tammy's? What is your read on Delta, who you don't seem to have commented on today? Which of the two would you rather lynch?

Vyse, any opinion on Delta and Mala? You called them both null before. Is that catchup still happening today?

Delta, have you made an effort to sort your Mala read? I assume you'd vote her over no lynch or your own lynch, correct? How would you feel about a Boon flash wagon lol

[Boonskiies]

My play seems to irritate scum players because they feel they can mislynch me easy, which they can't. A la, look at Egg/Delta/Skrew.

@STD - I don't feel Skrew is lurking at all.

[SleepyKrew]

A la, look at Egg/Delta/Skrew.

vis a vis ie QED synergy, trust, leadership, growth

[Save The Dragons]

@STD - I don't feel Skrew is lurking at all.

wut

[Save The Dragons]

(for clarity sake, I wasn't the one who said he was lurking).

(and even if I had, I can think of 100 things I would prefer to talk about with you that you're not responding to).