Paradise Lost - [Game Over]

[massive]

"Didn't like" is the wrong phrase, I guess. It was impossible to enter it into game-related reads because it very clearly seemed out-of-game.

[Elbirn]

Hey Farside, who are you reading as scum? Aside from me.

ABr and massive currently are my strongest scum reads.

Interesting. So what happened to your AA9 scumread from Day 1?

You forget I unvoted with kats attack on her.
I was considering that kats actions where making her emotional at the time.

This quick wagon on AA is disturbing.
I'm staying off with my number 1 scum read aboard.

I mean, I could get it if you'd say you changed your mind after her whole outrage selfvoty drunk nonsense, but this was from before and seems a little off. You had several posts D1 where you pushed AA9, even over

me

for a span of time. Last thing I could find you say on her D1 indicated a scumread, and then this post happens today and it's "lel Elbirn's on that wagon, dats a bad wagon".

If I started a wagon on Massive, would that scumread disappear too?

You seem to "forget" I voted you then.
You want to buss your buddy, let me know, I'll be happy to help.

I didn't forget that you unvoted her; you vote switched to me in 506. You said nothing about AA9 no longer being a scumread, just that Katsukis comments were unnecessary, and nothing of her emotional state. You justified your vote switch with "Elbirn's lurking", not "AA9 isn't a scumread any more." Then we get to D2 and AA9 wagon is bad because I'm on it.

Basically I can't decide if your reads are fabricated, or if you actually believe that a scumread being on a wagon is a justifiable reason for believing that the person being wagoned must be town.

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

Why? I'm aware that your opinion changed as of post 1225, but I want to know what your thinking was when you posted this.

I don't read AtE well and generally just have a negative reaction to it. All the boohoo woe is me schtick never pings me as town indicative.

[FakeGod]

Cho replaces The Bulge. Please welcome Cho to the game.

[lufan131]

Welcome~

[Cho]

I skimmed the game before replacing in. The only reason I was interested enough to make the jump is because I noticed literally all of the major wagons were on lynchbait.

VOTE: Katsuki

And as town he should know better.

[lufan131]

Wow. That was disgusting. Sorry. Starting from that big, ugly quote box that was supposedly by lufan131, edit by way of post:

Personally? Perhaps lala(That was a fun holiday, but still :p ) or kat, still feeling albert is scum for having almost no content, and I wouldn't mind lynching AA9

To all of the above reads: Why?

What did you think of ArcAngel9's attempt to self-hammer?

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

Why? I'm aware that your opinion changed as of post 1225, but I want to know what your thinking was when you posted this.

Believe me, I know calculating.

[...]

I also love in this post he suggests that lalala could be scum strictly because Equinox and SH started batting around that idea a bit.

Well, of course

you

would.

As for the latter bit, I think you have me confused with farside22.

if that's the case, you should totally start a flash wagon on someone

Who the hell are you?

I don't know. I didn't like how AA was treated yesterday and I didn't like her reaction today, and it didn't feel right putting her out of the game with her in that state. (By the time I got in and would have voted, it was close to lynch.)

What didn't you like about ArcAngel9's reactions on Day 2?

Albert's too fluffy. Lala is a borderline, I'd found them scummy for a posting style, scum day, and some of their arguments don't make sense. Kat's a gut read. AA9 is playing awkwardly, self voting, and being somewhat stupid, and it reminds me of how I'd played as scum in the past.

[Equinox]

Albert's too fluffy. Lala is a borderline, I'd found them scummy for a posting style, scum day, and some of their arguments don't make sense. Kat's a gut read. AA9 is playing awkwardly, self voting, and being somewhat stupid, and it reminds me of how I'd played as scum in the past.

What do you think of the arguments that have been made that ArcAngel9 would have lynched herself if I hadn't unvoted in time?

What do you think of massive?

[lufan131]

Albert's too fluffy. Lala is a borderline, I'd found them scummy for a posting style, scum day, and some of their arguments don't make sense. Kat's a gut read. AA9 is playing awkwardly, self voting, and being somewhat stupid, and it reminds me of how I'd played as scum in the past.

What do you think of the arguments that have been made that ArcAngel9 would have lynched herself if I hadn't unvoted in time?

What do you think of massive?

I bet she would have, because I see no reason that she lied. Massive? He could be scum, I mean he's not a town read to me.

[lufan131]

What I mean by that is that she wouldn't self vote for no reason, and that she really desired the lynch.

[Cho]

I think AA9 is town. There's paranoia of course because her scumgame is also emotional. But this is the furthest out I've ever seen of it.

Maybe it's also not my place to say this, but AA9 I would actually hate if you left, especially over this. Please come back and at the least, help us finish this out. And vote Katsuki while you're at it.

[Equinox]

Hi Cho! Can you talk a bit more about Katsuki?

What I mean by that is that she wouldn't self vote for no reason, and that she really desired the lynch.

Why did you say that you wouldn't mind lynching ArcAngel9? Are you reading her as scum?

[farside22]

Hey Farside, who are you reading as scum? Aside from me.

ABr and massive currently are my strongest scum reads.

Interesting. So what happened to your AA9 scumread from Day 1?

You forget I unvoted with kats attack on her.
I was considering that kats actions where making her emotional at the time.

This quick wagon on AA is disturbing.
I'm staying off with my number 1 scum read aboard.

I mean, I could get it if you'd say you changed your mind after her whole outrage selfvoty drunk nonsense, but this was from before and seems a little off. You had several posts D1 where you pushed AA9, even over

me

for a span of time. Last thing I could find you say on her D1 indicated a scumread, and then this post happens today and it's "lel Elbirn's on that wagon, dats a bad wagon".

If I started a wagon on Massive, would that scumread disappear too?

You seem to "forget" I voted you then.
You want to buss your buddy, let me know, I'll be happy to help.

I didn't forget that you unvoted her; you vote switched to me in 506. You said nothing about AA9 no longer being a scumread, just that Katsukis comments were unnecessary, and nothing of her emotional state. You justified your vote switch with "Elbirn's lurking", not "AA9 isn't a scumread any more." Then we get to D2 and AA9 wagon is bad because I'm on it.

Basically I can't decide if your reads are fabricated, or if you actually believe that a scumread being on a wagon is a justifiable reason for believing that the person being wagoned must be town.

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

Why? I'm aware that your opinion changed as of post 1225, but I want to know what your thinking was when you posted this.

I don't read AtE well and generally just have a negative reaction to it. All the boohoo woe is me schtick never pings me as town indicative.

I don't just unvote scum reads to move onto someone else without saying something like I still see X as scum.
Just one of those habits I have and feel it's clear when I'm not voting or pushing on the player I'm no longer scum reading them.

[farside22]

Come into today, you are not voting anyone, so what happened?

I don't know. I didn't like how AA was treated yesterday and I didn't like her reaction today, and it didn't feel right putting her out of the game with her in that state. (By the time I got in and would have voted, it was close to lynch.)

Unless I'm crazy I saw only one post you had an issue with lulu.

Lala, not lulu. 806, 1055. It's not much but I mean, it's nearly 10% of my posts.

I'm certainly happier to vote ducky than AA at this time.

VOTE: lalaladucks

saving this post for later so I can reference it when I get home today.

[Katsuki]

I skimmed the game before replacing in. The only reason I was interested enough to make the jump is because I noticed literally all of the major wagons were on lynchbait.

VOTE: Katsuki

And as town he should know better.

[farside22]

Elb: When did you switch from your death lynch of Lulu to voting for AA?

[Glass]

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

AA9, when you read this tomorrow, why didn't you hammer Lufan?

Ya, the outburst was pretty obviously real. She probably got ninja'd by equinox because I doubt she was lurking the thread just waiting to make that play.

Well, let's have it. I agree with your points against Bulge, but not your point against Elbirn. Were you glad that lufan didn't get lynched yesterday?

I done got you good, just go check the next post I'm about to put up.
And no, I would have prefered him lynched.

But im really curious about what people think of lalaladuck's latest posts (specially from RC since he's townreading her), I was already wrong about overreactions once, i don't want to be wrong twice u.u

Huh, i guess Glass is townreading her too.

Her posts reek of newbtown who doesn't know how to scuumhunt, so she is just saying whatever is on her mind at the moment, and I THINK it is inducing conversation, although I could be wrong about that.

[Glass]

A lot of posts happened since your last one, there's a lot of stuff that happened and you only commented on your scumreads, since i haven't

heard any thoughts from you in a while i wanna know your comments on stuff that happened, not just the end conclusion.

Ok, I'll give you a bit more reasoning behind my reads.

I remember very much disliking Tere during my readthrough, I never really understood what kind of point she was trying to make with the

"misrepresentation", and you pretty much echoed my thoughts on the subject which Tere pretty much dismissed offhand. But since Tere is now

dead, there is little point to discussing it.

Anyways, I'll do a quick rundown of the reads that I simply asserted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

AA:

Scum

Probably not scum

Why I thought she was scum:
Constantly trying to convince Katsuki that she is being unfair, immoral, etc. instead of scumhunting.
Posting a bunch of filler.

I personally beg everyone to drop their vote from lufan wagon if they are voting him because its a leading wagon. We can work out something

else..
I also been begging to look at massive. I don't see anything he did is town motivated.

Has a town read on lufan for some arbitrary reason, to the point of asking people to unvote him.

That being said, I liked the reaction to the flashwagon, so she's probably town

RC: NULL

You know what, I was trying to find what exactly I found scummy about RC, but I think it's just a lack of cohesion in his posts, he jumps here and there and his walls tend to be just a big collaboration of comments without any unifying idea. So I'm going to say that this is just a difference in playstyles that is setting me off.

SH: Town

I understand where she is coming from with most of her posts, agree with most of her posts, and it looks like she is actively trying to figure out what other people think and why. Was trying to push for a lynch at the end of yesterday which is pro-town in my eyes.

Equinox: Town

All of Equinox's posts towards lufan read as town to me. Trying to get lufan to do something so that people can either get a scumread on him or so that he can convince us he is town. Trying to advance the game and scumhunting.

grapes: Town

I like his posts whenever they come out, I'm not even sure why, but they exude towniness to me.

[Glass]

Also, hi Cho. Are you scum?

[farside22]

@massive: I checked your post.
post 806 omgus

post 1055what?

Neither is explaining why you are scum reading lala in the least. All I see is 2 quotes out of many she made that you comment about that are not alignment indictive in the least.

[grapes]

Her posts reek of newbtown who doesn't know how to scuumhunt, so she is just saying whatever is on her mind at the moment, and I THINK it is inducing conversation, although I could be wrong about that.

I disagree. Looks like fake scum-hunting. I mean try and walk me through your thought process here though because maybe I'm missing something.

To start out it was just pbpa and questions. It leans me more newbscum because that's the simplest way to look busy. And they don't have the aura of experience to fake it convincingly anyway.

Then she changed up her posting style after getting called out - to fluff and asking the flavor of the weak what their reads are almost exclusively. I haven't really seen her push on anything herself, except you. And I don't like how she can paraphrase what she was called out for 20 pages ago and quickly at that. More focused on peoples opinion of her than finding scum.

[grapes]

Lufans day 2 is a lot better imo.

[farside22]

My 2 cents, I'd like kats to talk about some other scum read outside AA.

[Glass]

I disagree. Looks like fake scum-hunting. I mean try and walk me through your thought process here though because maybe I'm missing something.

To start out it was just pbpa and questions. It leans me more newbscum because that's the simplest way to look busy. And they don't have the aura of experience to fake it convincingly anyway.

Then she changed up her posting style after getting called out - to fluff and asking the flavor of the weak what their reads are almost exclusively. I haven't really seen her push on anything herself, except you. And I don't like how she can paraphrase what she was called out for 20 pages ago and quickly at that. More focused on peoples opinion of her than finding scum.

I don't think any of her more recent posts can be reasonably seen as fake scum-hunting, mostly because I don't think lala could possibly believe her recent posts can be seen as scumhunting. In regards to her early posts and change of style, it didn't happen after getting called out, at least not immediately. I can get quite a few examples of her being called out on fluffposting, and then her continuing with that style. I think it's more likely that she got discouraged after several people, over several posts, told her that her posts are fluff, and according to her in post 118 (which is just a recap post):

Was that fluff or did it seem more substantial? I hope the latter cause it took me a while to write

So if it legitimately took her a while to write, I could easily see her saying "well fuck it then" and turning to her current posting style.

I will concede that she doesn't look like she's very interested in finding scum.

@lala, when you get back

Don't think Elb is scum

Why not?

[Sakura Hana]

I haven't really seen her push on anything herself, except you.

Not even that, she's just sheeping dead Tere's read (Which was and still is a whole bunch of bollocks), and did it immediately after Gaiden said:

if that's the case, you should totally start a flash wagon on someone

So i dont think even Glass is something she's pushing herself.

@Glass: So walk me through this logic.
lala has a scumread on lulu since D1.
lulu makes a post that lala considers it's lulu

admitting to being scum.

Night 1 happens, 2 people die, neither of them are lulu, both are town.
lala doesnt vote for lulu at all and instead goes posting in big bold skittle letters to wish Kats a happy scumday, and does nothing until then declares an intent to hammer to AA9, and then we debucle into discussion about AA9's motives.

Note that lala still hasn't voted the person who supposedly admitted to being scum

RC comes in talks about a lot of stuff posts reads where lulu is his strongest scumread and votes him.
lala finally votes lulu, his reason

He admitted to being scum D1.

So if nothing had changed his read throughout D2 why didnt she outright vote him, specially since something like

admitting to being scum

should give her certainty of a scum flip?
Then she gets scum read by grapes and i call her out on why didn't she outright vote lulu.
Gaiden tells her to flashlynch someone instead.
lala decides to vote you because "maybe Tere was on to something" completely ignoring AGAIN her scumread on

the person who admitted to being scum.

I'll tell you my own theory after you reply.

[massive]

@massive: I checked your post.
post 806 omgus

Did you see enough from lufan leading up to ducky's vote change that would qualify as town? That would even make sense for ducky's switch? I don't know because you've actually never typed "lufan" into a post.

Do you see a compelling case in ducky's vote for me? Do you see a compelling reason why she would pick me over anyone with a low number of posts? Over YOU, let's say?

post 1055what?

This is the post that I was referring to:

I'm beginning to suspect now that none of the major wagons are actually on scum.
Those demons are probs laughing at us.

Ah well.

Does this not read like someone with inside knowledge trying to town it up? Has ducky up to this point in the game explained WHY she went from not caring who was lynched here:

Can we please just lynch someone, I don't really mind whom but preferably scum.

and calling them both town in 1020?