13p Normal [TM2015]

[pieguyn]

are you actually serious? if town claims it then Mala is practically guaranteed to be able to confirm her claim tonight.

obviously, if she *doesn't*, then lynch it with fire

[sthar8]

so being able to confirm her claim LATER makes her likely town?

[sthar8]

like, why the fuck would we need a claim for that?

[Save The Dragons]

@sthar8: I agree with your viewpoint. I don't see the need to insult Pie as well. I think the PL part is bad but I am assuming she's not actually going to just blindly PL if a RB does show up later.

@pie: we can still wait one night though to see if that is the case. Tomorrow I'm more open for the RB claiming, and we can go from there.

[sthar8]

well her argument with me for the whole last day phase has been 'shut up you're stupid'

so why is it not okay for me to call her play bad?

[Save The Dragons]

Well she shouldn't; I don't agree with people doing that all around. I'm not trying to referee though; your commentary about pie's play was specifically directed at me, so I responded to it.

Is this discussion relevant? I don't think either of you are stupid for your opinions nor does having a different one than I reflect how good your play is.

Nor does it help us determine Mala's alignment or give us someone to lynch as an alternative. Gun to my head I'd rather do Boon but I feel that's unlikely due to the people townreading him. I don't feel good about lynching Delta. And if I'm being completely honest, given everything and my desire to have her prove herself there's a nagging suspicion that Mala still could be scum which is making me hesitant to do much of anything.

[sthar8]

all day every response to me has been a horse laugh or argument by assertion, which is really fucking insulting to the PERSON.

and one time i say wow your idea is stupid, which insults the PLAY, and i'm 'abusive and defensive' and 'whoa there's no need to insult her'

[Save The Dragons]

Because once again, your comment about pie was directed TO ME. So I responded.

To you all day I've just asked you questions, I have done nothing with regards to insulting your play so I do NOT understand why you and I are having this conversation right now with less than a day to deadline.

Who do you want to lynch today sthar8

[Save The Dragons]

And I am sorry you feel slighted and insulted by people in this game. I know it's rough, I don't like how easy it is to insult people personally in forum mafia games and I know I'm guilty of it regardless of how I try not to be.

[jasonT1981]

all day every response to me has been a horse laugh or argument by assertion, which is really fucking insulting to the PERSON.

and

one time

i say wow your idea is stupid, which insults the PLAY, and i'm 'abusive and defensive' and 'whoa there's no need to insult her'

It was not just that one response I was picking up on. The majority of postings by you today (real time) have been defensive and insulting

You can fuck right off with this. I said I find your points unconvincing and that one point bad, and you're moving the goalposts on the point I made. Ask mastin how I feel about people trying to railroad me into shit.

I fucking

hope

you're right, but don't think this is anything but 'go along with pie so she stops being such a pain in the ass.'

@sthar8 - It looks unlikely Egg will be todays lynch.. which between Mala and Delta would you feel is most likely to be scum?

Delta. I was absolutely planning on voting mala to shut pie up.

I feel like this was pretty clear in my posts.

like, super fucking clear.

I need to review the mala claim. i believe the role in the setup, but i gotta check the play.

Sthar, walk me through your thought process. Are you for some reason assuming we have either two protective roles or a town RB+bodyguard? Because one of Mala and Jason being scum seems more likely to me.

how about you learn to read instead?

also, if you're a town roleblocker and blocked Mala, claim. tia

FUCKING WHY SKREW AND I JSUT HAD THIS CONVERSATION ARE YOU EVEN READING HTE FUCKING GAMR

you know what pie? fuck you.

i'm really fucking sick of 'i'm just right, sheep me, you're all stupid'

i am NOT claiming if I am the roleblocker, because I'm NOT wasting town utility on a TESTABLE ROLE.

like, the net loss on this is so fucking trivial

stuck on what? use your brain

WCS is that we have the same conversation tomorrow...

like, why the fuck would we need a claim for that?

That's a hell of a lot more than one time. You have been overly defensive when questioned today, and openly abusive on anyone who dares disagree with you.

So I will ask you, why so defensive today?

[pieguyn]

@pie: we can still wait one night though to see if that is the case. Tomorrow I'm more open for the RB claiming, and we can go from there.

who do you want to lynch at this point if not Mala?

it is true that waiting another day is another way to figure out whether town or scum RB'ed her here. I completely disagree with the viewpoint that early claims = antitown, though (in fact I think claiming earlier than most people usually claim is generally pro-town as opposed to anti-town), and I would rather have sorted it out ASAP.

add to that I don't really have any other strong scum reads and I'm fairly sure Delta is town. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sthar8]

i dont even fucking care right now. Egg's last two posts are transcendentally scummy, and pie's reaction to a roleclaim was 'WE SHOULD OUT MORE PPL!!!!'

what i really want to do right now is vote myself and tell you all to go to hell, so i'm gonna walk away foor a bit.

[Save The Dragons]

pie:

Gun to my head I'd rather do Boon but I feel that's unlikely due to the people townreading him. I don't feel good about lynching Delta. And if I'm being completely honest, given everything and my desire to have her prove herself there's a nagging suspicion that Mala still could be scum which is making me hesitant to do much of anything.

So boon, really. I'm up in the air about SK but wouldn't really feel bad about him dying. other than that I agree, I'm kind of not sure. Bins kind of due to PoE would also be a thing.

My fear is that outing the RB just gives scum another target to kill and protection another target to protect. I agree it would be nice to have all that information at our disposal but the game is still early.

If a town RB does die tonight, it's probably fair to say they blocked Mala.

Also a sthar8 lynch in 18 hours just seems like a terrible idea barring good proof so we probably don't need to be antagonizing him today.

[Save The Dragons]

Vote Boon

[pieguyn]

So boon, really. I'm up in the air about SK but wouldn't really feel bad about him dying. other than that I agree, I'm kind of not sure. Bins kind of due to PoE would also be a thing.

hmmm

the problem I'm running into with my reads is that the person I think makes the most sense as scum with Mala is Bins, and I kind of wanted to see her catch up first before trying to read her. I suppose that's where I'd want to lynch, though (especially considering that's basically the same argument for leaving Mala alive).

give me a bit to look over Boon again

[Bins]

Vyse did place his readslist in our team thread before replacing out because he said he needed help with the game. he was scum reading boon (mildly) but i read through Boon's ISO and i don't know if this feels like scum boon at all.

[Bins]

that being said i can't say i have a good grasp on Boon town either. last time i played with him town was a nightmare but i feel our playstyles are similar (minus the quick hammer-ing).

pg. 20 now and grinding through this slowly.

[Bins]

actually wait no i might be wrong.

[pieguyn]

@STD: imo Boon's defense of Mala makes him likely to be town here. I alluded to it earlier, but I don't really think he makes sense as scum with Mala based on the way Mala was treating him before - it read more like scum trying to put effort into buddying/manipulating town *if* Mala is scum here.

if Mala is town I don't really see him going about defending her in the way that he did, but it's mostly gut. I think he'd be slightly more likely at the least to take advantage of it instead of WK'ing her if he was scum in that scenario.

plus I generally think most of the angles he pushed this game actually make sense. as one example, I liked his paranoia of me earlier (if you parse through it, it essentially amounts to "you know my scum game, how the fuck do you read me as scum here?" which I usually find town), it didn't really feel like he was setting up to discredit me as opposed to legitimately forming a read on me.

meh. bullet case on Boon-scum?

[Egg]

you know what pie? fuck you.

i'm really fucking sick of 'i'm just right, sheep me, you're all stupid'

i am NOT claiming if I am the roleblocker, because I'm NOT wasting town utility on a TESTABLE ROLE.

I don't get that from Pie's posts at all.

[Bins]

Overnight I went back on the thread and tried to figure out who might be scum based off of the flip.

Spoiler: Fenchurch part

Fenchurch [God Save the Black Goo]

I like that Fenchurch ended up on the right side of things (I mean I guess Trojan could be scum too and then in that case Fenchurch helped to foster a mislynch; we can cross bridge that when we get there.)

That said, 2 out if 3 of my teammates think Thor is the better lynch. I've been waiting to see which way some of the lurkers wouldgo. Now that most votes have been placed, I'll have a little think and then add mine. (If it's Trojan, I'll ask for a claim first.)

But unless her team is telling her to bus Thor this looks legit.

I generally like her team commentary...but for paranoia's sake I will say if anything there's almost too much...like it's borderline she's coming up with a thought and attributing it to a member of her team. It is hard to pay attention to all games.

Pieguyn [Indecisive]

Pieguyn seemed to consider pretty early on that Thor was behaving as he was because he was scum. Her pushes on Thor made Thor seem like a viable option more than once throughout the day so unless the goal was to bus the entire day to the point of a lynch I'm not sure I'd consider pie scum.

sthar8 [Marshmallow Pillow Fort]

VOTE: Thor

Epiphany. I'm mobile, so explanation and fact checking later.

This vote was pretty dramatic, but honestly it would have looked a lot worse had Thor been town. It is probably a pretty weird time to bus your scum partner right after 'assholegate.' The thor wagon was almost dead in the water at this point.

I am right. Hiders a shit claim. And if I'm wrong, Thor would have played it like shit anyway

This also seems more like "I'm town and saw through that." than "I'm scum and I know I'm right." Especially with the jab at the end.

Egg [Peruvian Flute Band]

Dammit.

Unvote, Vote Thor

You guys better be right.

I guess my issue is that if Egg were scum, he can hardly be blamed by the thor camp for being stubborn and forcing a no lynch. Probably not the safest play if Thor was lynched later, sure. It does give him town cred. If there was bussing on this wagon, it's more likely to come at the last minute than earlier in the game, imo, though.

Save The Dragons [Sickeningly Sweet]

teh adorbs

Deltawave [TBD]

Horrible, horrible idea to lynch a PR claim D1. There is no excuse for this wagon.

I could be fooled, but this really sounds like town frustrated we lynched a claimed PR. It's probably not something he would have said if he were Thor's scum buddy.

The fact that he spent most of his time chasing after me seems a bit reckless for scum; could be someone trying to really force a mislynch through, there's a lot of conviction for someone whom he would know to be town...I don't know.

Boonskiies [TEAM WITH NO NAME]

I've stated why. My team, specifically GuyInFeezer, says that Jason and Mala are town.

I'm trusting it.

This is the difference between Thor, who probably lied about or made up reads from his team, and Boon, who actually looks like he is listening to real reads.

I don't love everything the slot says though. I think he pretty much ignored Thor the entire game.

Micc/VysePresident [The Athenians]

If scum he blatantly sheeps his scumbuddy in the first post

He thinks Thor is scum pretty early based on how Thor is pushing jason

I don't love the Trojan vote but I can't really blame someone who had 5 seconds to play the game.

Micc's thoughts were similar to mine

Trojan Horse [The Captains]

I really don't know. If Trojan were scum with Thor, then I guess they probably wanted a mislynch or to ditch the teammate that was in more hot water. TH keeps saying and doing these things that bother me. His 'let's see what happens' when I vote DeltaWave was odd, but maybe he's just quirky. I don't know. TH might be a counterwagon to Thor, an attempt to save him, and in that case someone who built it is scum.

SleepyKrew [The Cockettes]

I feel town vibes from him, Cephrir does not and is the voice in my ear telling me to be wary of SK.

jasonT1981 [The Kliq]

Thor basically had his vote and his sights set on Jason the entire game. Thor was intending to mislynch him. A bus could be possible but then they're going for the long con.

Malakittens [The Unviggable Vegetables]

A scum malakittens could hide behind a policy of not lynching a claimed PR D1 as a way not to lynch their buddy.

I have seen a hider and a BG in the same setup, it's just a large not a mini-normal.

~

VOTE: Trojan

Sorry to do this man, but I feel thor is just a riskier lynch due to the pr claim.

;-;

This post is a defense of Thor's claim, and then a vote and an apology for voting Trojan. This means she doesn't think Trojan is scum, but she's voting for him. It is possible it is because she's settling for a townread. (or a zany theory; a {Thor, TH, Mala} scum team she's apologizing to the partner she is bussing)

finished D1

mala definitely more scum than Delta
looked at Boon's townplay and didn't recognize it so i'm in no position to meta him like i thought

if i'm missing anything important (yeahyeah all of D2, will try to get to that fast after dinner) pls say so

[Bins]

oops didn't mean to quote that.

was a helpful post tho.

[Save The Dragons]

My view of Boon's play this game has been him popping in at random times to say things and not really elaborating when asked.

I was pretty sure of Mala's guilt until the claim I actually did think Boon's defense of mala was due to them both potentially being scum. I haven't really updated that in my reads. I'm still not exactly sure where the town read on Mala comes from other than his team. I original thought his decision to defer to his team's reads to not lynch thor made him look town, considering he's doing it again wrt mala gives me a little pause.

But really there's not a lot of people I'd feel comfortable lynching today. Boon is one but I don't really have a reason or the time to make a great case (nor do I think there is a slam dunk to be had even if I did). I would compromise on people.

pedit: aw thanks

[pieguyn]

actually nvm I might be up for a Boon lynch today after all

[pieguyn]

I was pretty sure of Mala's guilt until the claim I actually did think Boon's defense of mala was due to them both potentially being scum. I haven't really updated that in my reads. I'm still not exactly sure where the town read on Mala comes from other than his team. I original thought his decision to defer to his team's reads to not lynch thor made him look town, considering he's doing it again wrt mala gives me a little pause.

I pretty much agree the way Boon played this is optimal for scum-Mala. I still haven't figured out if it's bc he's scum or if it's bc he's misguided.

I think his read flops on Mala and DW were really sudden, namely DW where it looked like he started pushing him based on one post that he thought was too wishy-washy. the only real reason I have for them not both being scum is Mala's posts, but I suppose it's possible she would put that much effort into town reading a partner. it could also just be her deliberately putting a false interaction

this kind of sucks bc I only have the one strong scum read on Mala and now I'm thinking I might have too many town reads. what do you make of how Mala's claim fits into her reads?