Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Formerfish]

I'll be around here tonight when I get off work.

[Gammagooey]

We all went to brewgaloo downtown and we came back and were drunk

I crashed for several hours pretty much immediately after

[singersigner]

Yeah that. I was mostly just talking to AGar in the kitchen and checking my phone to see if anyone (Esp) had been lynched/voted but I didn't want them to know that's what I was doing. >_> I don't really have a good answer for why I didn't actually end up voting because if I had voted, someone else might've been inclined to hammer, so I'll own that. I just think Titus is throwing shit out there about scum letting Esp live to save as a mislynch later...I really don't see why they wouldn't have tried to get him lynched yesterday since the outcome would've been the same.

I brought up GiF's role solely because people wanted to know why I was reading GiF so hard. I don't believe in lying so that was why. I suggested scum setting me up because I was asked why scum would kill GiF. I don't feel strongly. I was speculating as to possible reasons.

It is a reason to kill GiF CDB. Burning mislynches is NOT something scum like to do early. Plus, if they try and fail, they have two unkillable townies, which isn't good. I'll admit, maybe I could have played it better as I'm not subtle when I'm blocking off mislynches but I did and scum killed an unlynchable townie.

So as far as I can tell, this:

@Singer, These roles are not normal. I got no clue. GiF thought his role meant doctor. I do know that dumb town can hurt. Scumplay is about weaving a narrative. Dumb town play into that narrative and are mislynches.

is where you bring up the role, which from day start was entirely unsolicited. Where were people asking you why you were townreading GiF so hard? And the second part, I personally asked you why you think GiF was killed

because

you were commenting on his role. As far as we've seen, you were the only one who knew/picked up on his role (because literally anyone could see your comment and go ok whatever), so it's kind of weird that you then offered the exact piece of information you claim scum would be framing you for?

I'm also really tired of you acting like everything boils down to your influence. You can only be at fault for GiF's death

if you were the one who killed him.

You're playing the "woe is me" card like you could've, should've, would've done better if only you were better at this game! This is not a town mind set to continue appealing to emotion by claiming you're bad and want to get better to continue defending your bad play/presence this game.

Now, I've told you exactly what I have a problem with, and you seem to be incapable of explaining exactly why you think I'm scum other than to retort to everything I say with "you're either bad or you're scum lololol." You keep saying "if you're not even gunna try then what's the point" like whether or not I try would make a difference. I'm either scum or not, Titus, and I'm asking you to stop toeing the line using Ffery as an excuse. Please fortheloveofgod tell everyone why I'm scum. I'm literally begging you to make your case now and allow the town to make their Bane/Minor Night 2 decisions based off your case and we can go into the lynches accordingly.

@Formerfish...it's nice to see you finally enter the game. I suspect with three full nights you've had the opportunity to catch up a bit. Please share your thoughts with the class as soon as possible, plsandthx.

@Cheetory...Glork's brother is in town so my rereads are on the backburner from what's going on right now and might take a bit. I will look at Marquis/FF when I get a chance and hopefully have some input to analyze from FF by the time it gets done.

unbane
bane: Mastin

This or Shadoweh are acceptable bane choices.

[Oversoul]

Yeah that. I was mostly just talking to AGar in the kitchen and checking my phone to see if anyone (Esp) had been lynched/voted but I didn't want them to know that's what I was doing. >_>

But, like, I don't understand this specific thought process, Singer.
This looks sketchy as shit. Why would you care if they saw you checking unless you felt you had something to hide from them?

[singersigner]

I was telling AGar I was ignoring him because of the game. I was talking about the game. I didn't want them to hear me talking about the game. I don't know how you're not understanding that.

[hitogoroshi]

VC 103 (Minor Day 2, VC 5)

Bane:

Target player may not submit actions this Major Night.

(6)

mastin2:

Gammagooey, vezokpiraka, TellTaleHeart, Oversoul, ChannelDelibird, singersigner [L-3]
(3)

Espeonage:

ActionDan, Cheetory6, Espeonage

(ChannelDelibird)

(2)

singersigner:

Titus, mastin2
(1)

Aronis:

Shadoweh
(0)

Titus:

(singersigner)

(5)

No Bane Vote:

Aronis, Bulbazak, Deasvail, Formerfish, Untrod Tripod

(ChannelDelibird, Oversoul)

With 17 players alive it's 9 to Bane. Minor Day One ends on Monday, May 4th at 8:00 PM CST.

Minor Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-05-04 20:00:00)

[Formerfish]

How many people here have played with me in a large game? If you have you know that I post when I can and that it usually takes me a while for me to find the bone that I can't help but go after. Cheet, why is it so important to you personally that I post right now? I am still trying to wrap my head around the mechanics and how everything could work together. Do you have something specific you would like me to talk about, or are you just looking for me to post? If you have questions by all means ask away. If not then I need you to explain why you picked me out of everyone as someone who needs to post more.

[Cheetory6]

Basically, I don't want you to have an excuse to lurk into obscurity.
I don't think you should find that surprising given the last completed game we've played together.

I'm also less interested in you answering something specific and more interested in you catching up right now. Take your time if you need it, but I'm starting to get wary of anyone I don't have a read on that hasn't done anything that I feel strongly about and Marquis/DV both kind of fall into that category.

[Formerfish]

The last game you played with me you saw me tryhardtown for the first day or so and then I was nked. If you want an accurate look at me then meta dive my large games. I'm sorry that you don't have an impression of me, but maybe you need to interact with me directly. It is a lot easy for me to get involved when someone is actually talking directly to me, then when I am trying to pull things out of everyones wall posts to analyse.

I am not going to completely read this game. Flat out is not happening. By the time I read up on everything I would be so far behind again that it wouldnt make any sense.

[Cheetory6]

I didn't get the impression you were tryhardtown on D1 of that game q.q

I would suggest ISOing 2-3 people and maybe taking a stance on them and then maybe we can talk about that?

[Formerfish]

Do you have any suggestions on who you would like to discuss?

[mastin2]

OK, looks like TTH is town then.

No duh. I just had to rant and scream at you all day to get people to listen to it.

You said you are dying.

And I am. I didn't say it'd be night one.

But I guarantee you. I will die. Especially if you don't bane me given that most likely reduces scum's desire to nightkill me. (Okay, I suppose it'd actually be possible to

increase

my chances of death via scum nightkill, but you wouldn't know why without me roleclaiming.)

3) why are so few people talking about how infuriatingly antitown mastin was at the end of Yesterday?

Because people know my stances about lynches by now.

I don't give a damn about no-lynches D1, or any day particularly. I'd rather them than on town. But if possible, I prefer on scum. And I deemed DV a viable scumwagon. There's a reason I'm not baning DV.

Also want to have another look at Bulbazak, DV and Formerfish imminently, I think.

I look forward to Formerfish, but Bulbazak is town and DV is scum.

[mastin2]

Yes, she's scum, what about her?

I'm holding back a string of profanity which itself would be holding back the

mother of all deathglares

at ETL right now, side of Anti.

Mastin

, why do you think Fferyllt and Nacho would be okay with a bane on Singer?

Because it's not a lynch on her.

...But seriously, they'd accept it. They would value keeping 'town' alive and not mislynching, thus no lynch on her, but doing a bane is a good way to keep her in check in case they're wrong--something they'd be happy to acknowledge as possible, especially as a compromise--while also in a way helping to ensure her survival.

[Oversoul]

No duh. I just had to rant and scream at you all day to get people to listen to it.

She's confirmed town now, Mastin. Had nothing to do with you ranting or screaming about it.

[Titus]

@Singer, Yesterday people were asking me why I townread GiF so hard. You asked me why I thought GiF was killed to fuel your tunnel vision. I can see that. It's absolutely a town perspective to put everything out on the table when I know it

provided that's good to reveal

. Also, many people have asked me to be more humble and look at what I can do to improve. So yes, I can see given GiF's flip that maybe scum thought he was a PR. Not doctor specifically (as they couldn't crack what role he had). By the way, your reads list sucks. We are not baning Mastina.

I've been over your inconsistencies in this thread before. Mastina, Shadoweh and I all happen to think you're scum (and that's the bottom). Yet, I know me and everyone here knows me that if I start walling cases, I hit a point of no return. Given there is a red flag with pushing your lynch (FFery never reading Empire wrong), I am going to take a step back and actually review what you do.

@Cheetory, I'm a little surprised by the lack of confirmation of TTH and DeasVail not being pissed about TTH's promise. TTH said something about his relationship with DV and being able to confirm himself as town. Generally, having knowledge about the setup is usually indicative of scum rather than town. If I'm understanding TTH's role right, he knows what a bane or a boon is. Given low numbers of scum, informing scum of banes and boons makes sense. So TTH actually goes down based on the reveal (although I know that's not a popular opinion). DV also goes down a few notches because I'd expect more of a reaction but it almost looks like he ignored it.

@All, the Mastina bane is terrible guys. Mastina's town.

[Cheetory6]

Titus, TTH is like.. almost basically innocent child levels of conftown.
If scum has information in their rolePM about the Lock then the equivalent VT mentioned in the choice would almost certainly have it as well or at the very very very least TTH would not have confidence levels to make this kind of claim without having to seriously worry about a CC. I think you're misunderstanding exactly what the situation is. Read the choice again and then read TTH's claim again and then we can talk more about it.
Also, TTH is a lady. Not sure why everyone is missing that.

[Titus]

I'll review it tomorrow Cheet but I, by default, am skeptical of any informed claim, particularly if a player uses it to confirm themselves. Could I be wrong, sure. I admit that, but I'm not going to put TTH in confirmed levels of town because they claimed a role that looks scummy to me. That doesn't even make sense. That's like saying someone claimed miller, and then saying they're confirmed town.

[Cheetory6]

It's like.. imagine there's a role in the opening post which is confirmed to be on townside.
This is comparable IMO.
Short of like hardcore shenanigans on hito's part, but I don't really think this setup is designed to throw borderline bastard curveballs at us.

[mastin2]

Mastin

, how involved is your team with your reads/this game? Why did you want TSO lynched?

Mara's been afk the entire time basically. notscience is much the same. pie's recently got into the game, and it was ironically pie that thought TSO was scum--third on the scumlist of pie's, actually. TSO was a nullread of mine. pie's read the first 40 pages of the game, and is trying to work from there.

How none of you saw the warning signs to the growth of the lynch is beyond me.

It

was

a deadline lynch, of our first lynch timeframe, Oversoul. We actually went over the clock to get

that

much. But yes, all the same I did see the signs. I chose to ignore them because...well, honestly I don't have the slightest idea why. singer joined, I noted it as a red flag, but I didn't do anything. No clue why.

[Titus]

Where's the bastardness? Mafia is a game of information. If Mafia can share and give out selected information to control the game AND confirm themselves, that's their best play. I don't consider it bastard. While yes, TTH can be town. He's not confirmed town. I know I literally just had this argument in another game. There's a difference between what feels good and what is actually true. He can be town, and I certainly don't want to lynch him at the moment but I don't think he's 100% OMG town.

I just finished an off-site scum game where I withheld a bunch of information and got myself to be read as confirmed town, as scum. It allowed me to get away with a lot. Getting confirmed town status is a landmine for scum, so no one gets to be self-proclaimed conftown. That's also dangerous because scum then know exactly who to suck up to if they actually are town.

[Titus]

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... zen-Throne

^^ For Cheetory. It's a bastard game but I was a witch (aka redirector) and got myself cop checked.

[Formerfish]

@Singer, Yesterday people were asking me why I townread GiF so hard. You asked me why I thought GiF was killed to fuel your tunnel vision. I can see that. It's absolutely a town perspective to put everything out on the table when I know it

provided that's good to reveal

. Also, many people have asked me to be more humble and look at what I can do to improve. So yes, I can see given GiF's flip that maybe scum thought he was a PR. Not doctor specifically (as they couldn't crack what role he had). By the way, your reads list sucks. We are not baning Mastina.

I've been over your inconsistencies in this thread before. Mastina, Shadoweh and I all happen to think you're scum (and that's the bottom). Yet, I know me and everyone here knows me that if I start walling cases, I hit a point of no return.

Given there is a red flag with pushing your lynch (FFery never reading Empire wrong), I am going to take a step back and actually review what you do.

@Cheetory, I'm a little surprised by the lack of confirmation of TTH and DeasVail not being pissed about TTH's promise. TTH said something about his relationship with DV and being able to confirm himself as town. Generally, having knowledge about the setup is usually indicative of scum rather than town. If I'm understanding TTH's role right, he knows what a bane or a boon is. Given low numbers of scum, informing scum of banes and boons makes sense. So TTH actually goes down based on the reveal (although I know that's not a popular opinion). DV also goes down a few notches because I'd expect more of a reaction but it almost looks like he ignored it.

@All, the Mastina bane is terrible guys. Mastina's town.

Titus, talk to me about the bolded.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Bane: Mastin

Also, btw, justsayin, I've explicitly claimed having a role similar enough to CDB's that I vouched for him yesterday, so that should tell you, "Hey, maybe DISABLING that would be a BAD IDEA".

[Oversoul]

You mean a role as hard to get off as CDBs? One that probably never work?

[Titus]

@FF, Again... *sigh*

FFery and I had a big argument in Uncouth mafia. I told her my VCA confirmed clears are 100% never wrong. She fought me tooth and nail and made me feel like shit. I fought FFery this game on her read on Singer being town until she said her reads on Empire were never wrong. I've been looking for some plausibility in that read since. I would have wanted that if I presented something that was 100% never wrong. Her behavioral reads, on a whole, also are better than mine. It's something worth setting aside lynching her. As of right now though, any ability in her hands is likely to be used suboptimally so I have zero problems baning her.