Open 595: Elemental Mafia (Town Wins!)

[farside22]

101 - Flubber is a scum read. No vote though, instead she focuses on Bella. Classic scum move, FOS buddy (Flubber) but vote !town! (Bella)

253 - Her read on Flubber is 'paranoid'. Not scummy though, just someone to be watched.

330 - Can you explain this comment, Farside. Why did you want me to be town?

877 - If you thought Flubber was scum and you were going to attack him, why do you need to reevaluate? You were right, so there should be no need for reevaluation. This makes no sense.

As well as this, besides her brief stint on the Papi wagon (which after she got off she made sure she avoided like the plague; switching between Con and RMM) all of her scum reads throughout the game seem to be on people who I feel good are town. She also fits the bill for scum pushing CW to Papi.

I was following Flubber as scum based on town meta I had but I wasn't married to that read.
Con did little to nothing but give bad reads and lurk.
I felt better about my scum read then following someone else.
I needed to reevalute because again I'm a tunnel type. I wasn't expecting Flubber to be dead so I needed to check the thread to see interactions between Flubber, papi and then vs others.
Which I did.

[farside22]

Also I wasn't around after because I got busy, which I said in thread

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, but you showed very little suspicion towards Flubber throughout the Day.

The way Con went about his reads (or lack of them) was town, I explained this somewhere I think. It was weak reasoning to pursue him.

Also, if you ended D1 thinking RMM was scum, why did you not start D2 in the same manner?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And this one is in it's very own post because I think you have ignored this twice.

Can you explain your comment to me in 330?

[farside22]

OK, but you showed very little suspicion towards Flubber throughout the Day.

The way Con went about his reads (or lack of them) was town, I explained this somewhere I think. It was weak reasoning to pursue him.

Also, if you ended D1 thinking RMM was scum, why did you not start D2 in the same manner?

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

And this one is in it's very own post because I think you have ignored this twice.

Can you explain your comment to me in 330?

Because of ongoing game reason.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

I did vote ConMan, but it was on a perceived slip and at a time when I wasn't fully caught up (I had skimmed a fair few of the recent pages)
You come into D2 looking to attack Flubber. You ended D1 thinking RMM was scum. Why would you not continue attacking RMM? It has nothing to do with Wrong/RMM, and everything to do with the progression/change in your reads on Flubber/RMM.

Your '

I was scum reading Flubber and was going to attack him

' comment feels disingenuous.

Because of ongoing game reason.

I'm going to come back to this when I can. This is bullshit though.

VOTE: Farside

[BlueBloodedToffee]

888 - What wagons were probed Dave? Can you be more specific.

892 - Wanderer, can you elaborate on Dave's reasoning 'looking town' for not voting Papi?

I don't particularly like that you have commented on two dead people and both of your reads happen to be correct. I don't know why you included them.

Can you explain scum read on Lane?

893 - Farside, 'lack of interactions' for why RMM is scum is weak. I think everyone has had a lack of interaction with RMM.

894 - Farside, why are you hard town-reading Dave?

[farside22]

You voted con at some point towards the end of the day so....??
My read changed because papi flipped scum as did Flubber.
I explained why I think wrong is scum over rmm already.

I did vote ConMan, but it was on a perceived slip and at a time when I wasn't fully caught up (I had skimmed a fair few of the recent pages)
You come into D2 looking to attack Flubber. You ended D1 thinking RMM was scum. Why would you not continue attacking RMM? It has nothing to do with Wrong/RMM, and everything to do with the progression/change in your reads on Flubber/RMM.

Your '

I was scum reading Flubber and was going to attack him

' comment feels disingenuous.

Because of ongoing game reason.

I'm going to come back to this when I can. This is bullshit though.

VOTE: Farside

Because papi flipped scum. It's natural to change views when a player flips something you don't expect and check yourself.

You should explain why that is bs. We have an ongoing game.
You want to explain why it's scummy to want you to be town like at all.

[farside22]

888 - What wagons were probed Dave? Can you be more specific.

892 - Wanderer, can you elaborate on Dave's reasoning 'looking town' for not voting Papi?

I don't particularly like that you have commented on two dead people and both of your reads happen to be correct. I don't know why you included them.

Can you explain scum read on Lane?

893 - Farside, 'lack of interactions' for why RMM is scum is weak. I think everyone has had a lack of interaction with RMM.

894 - Farside, why are you hard town-reading Dave?

There is only one scum and one sk.
Do you want to explain to me why you are asking me about a town read when (1) there is no more pairs and (2) you think I'm scum for wanting you to be town

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would Papi flipping scum point you to Flubber? Like, it seems counter-intuitive to start looking for scum on the wagon of someone who flipped scum.

I can't explain it because ongoing. When I can, I will.

It's a weird comment to make. I could understand it if we had played together before or something like that, but we hadn't.

PEdit - Can you explain why you're hard town reading Dave please?

[farside22]

As for lack of interaction, if you read at all Flubber ISO he midly attacked rmm but never said anything toward wrong at all. Flubber said nothing about papi until you attacked him.
So I was thinking scum didn't attack each other based on the two who flipped and there lack of interaction.

[farside22]

Why would Papi flipping scum point you to Flubber? Like, it seems counter-intuitive to start looking for scum on the wagon of someone who flipped scum.

I can't explain it because ongoing. When I can, I will.

It's a weird comment to make. I could understand it if we had played together before or something like that, but we hadn't.

PEdit - Can you explain why you're hard town reading Dave please?

Scum buss. You do realize that somewhere right?
Plus as I said Flubber voted papi and then switched to con for pretty bs reasons in my view. So I went with rmm.
I'm not explaining my town read till you respond to why your asking me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I do. But again, it still seems counter-intuitive to search for scum on the wagon. Plus, you showed very little interest in Flubber throughout the Day, if you thought he switched to Con for BS reasons, why didn't you call him out on it? Why go for RMM instead? Why not Flubber?

I'm asking because it looks like you have just assumed Dave is town. I would like to know what he did that made you so sure he was town.

[farside22]

I do. But again, it still seems counter-intuitive to search for scum on the wagon. Plus, you showed very little interest in Flubber throughout the Day, if you thought he switched to Con for BS reasons, why didn't you call him out on it? Why go for RMM instead? Why not Flubber?

I'm asking because it looks like you have just assumed Dave is town. I would like to know what he did that made you so sure he was town.

I didn't have a lot of time that day I switched my vote.
I was going to come back but RL got in my way and I just zoned out with other games I think.
When I was able to come back the lynch happened.

Sigh fine, I hate explaining town reads so bare with me.

[farside22]

Minot sure why you say it counter intuitive to search for scum on the wagon if you know they tend to bus when necessary

[TheReverend]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Who here other than toffee has a list of "not lynching ever"?

[farside22]

Hmmm I realize upon review of Dave I have no clue why I was town reading him so strong.
His last post came across as town but prior to that I realize he was pretty negative towards the papi lynch and his review of Flubber is pretty bad on what he found.

[farside22]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Who here other than toffee has a list of "not lynching ever"?

I didn't even think of that.

Rev: what is your thoughts on Dave.

[TheReverend]

I'm not at home so I don't have my notes to hand. I'll ISO him now.

[TheReverend]

This suggests that ConMan is the 3rd scum. Flubber and ConMan voted each other, possibly to distance. ConMan's only vote is on the CW.

Yeah I can see dave scum. This here looks to me like classic scum attempt to link town to scum so dave has an easy target if flubber dies.

At a theory level only, the SK is likely to be someone who was scumreading Flubber. I have someone in mind already but it will take some reading to verify.
At a WIFOM level, the SK might be someone who wasn't scumreading Flubber, trying to get us to pursue someone who was.

This smacks of someone who is concerned about the SK after flubber died.

He was also soft defending papi.

Yeah dave is a good shot for 3rd scum.

[farside22]

Good that means wrong might be town.
Bleck

[farside22]

God not good.

Sigh

Vote: Dave

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Toffee is the SK.

Alright, I'm fairly confident that Farside, Reverend, ConMan and Lane are town. I don't think I will vote for any of these people, ever.

This is the mindset of someone who isn't even thinking about the SK. He's determined we're not scum due to interaction, but how can he know we're not SK? Why would he never lynch us in the game when he can have no way of knowing if any of us are SK? There's four people here who he won't lynch? This is not a natural town position in a game with a SK.

Yeah, I'm not SK.

You're right though, I'm not even thinking about the SK right now. I have no idea how to find a SK.

I genuinely have no idea what I'm going to do when we lynch the last scum.

Hmmm I realize upon review of Dave I have no clue why I was town reading him so strong.
His last post came across as town but prior to that I realize he was pretty negative towards the papi lynch and his review of Flubber is pretty bad on what he found.

See, this makes a lot more sense.

I think you were town reading Dave to appease him and gain his vote.

[farside22]

[Wanderer-nl]

@BBT: 586 is where dave is mostly reluctant to vote papi. It felt genuine to me, not quite sure why. Also hindsight, he's referring to a post of flubber as well as almost defending the papi lynch, which is a lot of association in one post.
I included them because I read before they flipped. It also matters how I read them for my other reads. For instance: someone pushing hard on a townread of mine will look more scummy to me.
I explained my read on lane in 906, it's not a strong scumread that's why it's null-scum (see 892)

PEdit:
A lot of new posts, a lot of new things to consider.