Battlestar Galactica Mafia - Game over!

[curiouskarmadog]

Where the fuck is this coming from? I never said I didn't believe you before, I don't even know what was there to believe in, you only claimed now. I noticed there was something between you two and that there was more to your screening vote on him than just a random obsession, but it didn't bother me so I never thought much about it.

aww man, had a reply all ready for you then I went to pull the quote where you indicated you thought my push was scummy....it wasnt there. sooo

got you mixed up with someone else, for some reason I had you and Brain in the same box in my head.

[curiouskarmadog]

We're not getting lynched.

your buddies already set in their voting?

[sangres]

Screen: ooba

What changed between these two posts?

---

The clock ticking down changed. Our preferred screen choices' wagons had lost steam and were going nowhere. If we can't screen a player who would form the center of a strong town block, the next best choice is a player we think is scum and less likely to be lynched today.

ooba - scum, ooba doesn't do shit when he's scum. example: in the Recks Retrospective Rehash game he had 71 posts over three game days.

I hold Nacho to be one of the best players to reading me on site - since he's played with me as both scum and town.

- You've ignored site wide activity levels. My posting tanked in ALL three of my games. (This is the third)
- While the "doesn't do much when scum" is partially true - I tend to put in a LARGE amount of effort at the start of the game since I find players to fix early reads and then selectively pick info that supports those reads.
This is my initial post in Reck's game.
Nacho knows this.

Seems like a very hasty judgement\read on your part just to justify the screen vote.

You're actually bringing up questions I asked Nacho about the Reck game, because I remembered your post about all the possible scum roles from the original games even though I replaced into that game very late. he pointed out your activity level and focus over the full three gamedays you were alive in that game.

re other games you're in, that's something I haven't looked at.

[sangres]

screwed up the quotes.

Screen: ooba

What changed between these two posts?

---

The clock ticking down changed. Our preferred screen choices' wagons had lost steam and were going nowhere. If we can't screen a player who would form the center of a strong town block, the next best choice is a player we think is scum and less likely to be lynched today.

ooba - scum, ooba doesn't do shit when he's scum. example: in the Recks Retrospective Rehash game he had 71 posts over three game days.

I hold Nacho to be one of the best players to reading me on site - since he's played with me as both scum and town.

- You've ignored site wide activity levels. My posting tanked in ALL three of my games. (This is the third)
- While the "doesn't do much when scum" is partially true - I tend to put in a LARGE amount of effort at the start of the game since I find players to fix early reads and then selectively pick info that supports those reads.
This is my initial post in Reck's game.
Nacho knows this.

Seems like a very hasty judgement\read on your part just to justify the screen vote.

[/quote]

You're actually bringing up questions I asked Nacho about the Reck game, because I remembered your post about all the possible scum roles from the original games even though I replaced into that game very late. he pointed out your activity level and focus over the full three gamedays you were alive in that game.

re other games you're in, that's something I haven't looked at.

[sangres]

from my perspective, in the few games we've played together, when you've been town there's been a strong degree of convergence in our reads during the early game. Your first few posts echoed a lot of stuff I'm thinking about in our prior games where you were town. In my catch-up read, I didn't get any of those kinds of vibes from your posts.

[sangres]

We're not getting lynched.

your buddies already set in their voting?

It's this sort of reaction that has been pinging for me the last couple days btw. This kind of narrative-weaving could come from some kind of deep confirmation bias, but it looks like the kind of lazy push that I often see coming from scum.

[sangres]

And before this becomes a case of the tomorrow tomorrows:

My flavor had a weird wording that revealed that Saul is a Cylon flavor-wise (think something along the lines of talking about how much Saul hates "other Cylons" and you'll be pretty close).

This is the flavor related reason that makes me think BRO is scum. I don't see any competent moderator (and I especially don't see two competent moderators) calling a player Cylon in flavor and Human in wincondition because that is confusing as shit and stupid. Added evidence of this is 1) Nikanor's role PM, which doesn't call him a Cylon in flavor, and also additional people not claiming Cylon because I'm sure more than two show Cylons exists in this game but it wouldn't surprise me at all if people just didn't know because they weren't called Cylons in their flavor. I also don't know how "You are a Cylon. Can you trust yourself not to be a Cylon???" works in role PM form, but the champion's answer is that it just doesn't.

For bonus nothing to do with flavor reasons, there's a very strong scum motivation in what he's focusing on and how he's focusing on it. He's focusing entirely on derailing and responding to the push on him while supporting people calling him town: discrediting attackers is BRO's natural response to a wagon on him as scum (see: Capcom) and I don't like how he's fallen into that same mindset here. I don't think it's genuine to immediately start suspecting someone the moment they suspect you (ala Andy, Valila): if town, I expect BRO would still most definitely attack the players attacking them, but he'd give them time for their suspicions to form as opposed to the immediate pretty much OMGUS that he's been displaying lately.

I also don't like how he reacted to my initial push: I can name a bunch of reasons why BRO taking his classic scum approach with our slot would be a really, really bad idea, so reactions like 747 where he has a misunderstanding of my read on him that is almost most definitely caused by skimming demonstrates he isn't actually looking at my attack and instead probably has a predetermined direction for how he's going to react. I also don't like his later conclusion with the quiet vote: the most accessible reasoning for the vote is that he thinks I'm pushing him for the same reason everyone else is, but in that case, I'd expect a bit more anger, frustration coming from his end. I would also expect him to understand that isn't the reason I'm pushing him as town: as scum, he'd be more inclined to just shoehorn my argument into the "CYLON = SCUM" one. If he thinks I'm scum for some reason based on the second line being bad, I would expect him to at least put a little effort into responding to the new reasoning.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nacho, why should I change my vote from Toog? Is Toog town in your opinion?

[Nikanor]

Nikanor, tell me again your thoughts on Sangres?

I've been thinking he is more likely town than not since his reads list. It looks really well thought-out and it flows naturally. Their reads are also pretty similar to my own, which helps.

I didn't like his push for a screen to the exclusion of everything else at all, I didn't really understand what town motive he could possibly have for it and I personally thought it sounded fake and overblown as hell, although yeah, it is a pretty odd way for scum to play.

This is pretty close to how I'm feeling about ckd now. His posts just look fake. Especially the accusations against Toog and Snow recently.
It's not that odd for him to act that way as scum though since it'd a) give him and his scum team a reason to avoid the screen, and b) make him look town without having to really contribute anything. Like, it's easy to say that it's odd for scum to play that way, but it's not really telling because it's an odd way for town to play as well.

[Tammy]

brooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[ValiliaRei]

@SnowStorm

You're going after Toogeloo for pushing for NAA to be screened. Why aren't you also pushing ckd for the same reason? The bulk of his posts have been calling for NAA's screen without explanation.

Well, why do you ask me about ckd when several other people voted to screen NAA for no real reason?

pedit: it looks like ckd did have a reason to want to screen NAA after all.

@SnowStorm

- Yes, other people were voting to screen NAA, but you were saying Toog had urgency and certainty. Ckd had urgency and certainty, too, to the point of saying that if we don't screen NAA we should lynch ckd. And yes, he did say what his reason was eventually, but at the time you made that post pushing Toogeloo, he hadn't.

here is the funny part. Once I claim, everyone will yell at me for claiming. or say I flaked. awesome win win here. awesome.

actually..the more I think about it.

you get a partial claim, because I am pissed. If he is scum, they already know.

I got a role, it is linked to Axehole. At a certain point in the game, I get an ability...but Axehole ultimately decides how I use it. I do not know (obviously) his alignment. If he is scum, it is bad for us. if he is town, probably good for us. (there are others bits that explain how this works exactly).

wouldnt it have been easier to just go with me on this? I mean we had nothing to go on..It was obvious I had some reasons.

Yes, curiouskarmadog... That is called painting a target. Very good observation. Night kill is guaranteed to be a townie, I'm just stating a preference... It aligns with your wish to self-lynch if I don't get screened (which by the way, self-lynch plays directly against our win condition).

This makes NAA's interactions to ckd look really weird. He's said he is painting a target on ckd, but why would he want to get rid of the powers he has access to whether he was scum or town? I don't see a motivation for NAA (as town or scum) to do that to ckd unless he thinks (or knows) that ckd is scum. Even then it's still odd considering he supposedly has control of ckd's powers.

@ckd

- You never said why you weren't feeling the Toogeloo wagon.

@Nikanor

- Where do you see ckd attacking Toogeloo? All I can find is him saying he doesn't feel the Toogeloo wagon.

[Tammy]

naa has said more than once that he thinks ckd is 100% town.

I don't trust naa's motivation, reads or anything, but.

[Nero Cain]

Way to be elitist.

[Tammy]

Shhhhh

I really try not to be. I do really just love everyone!

[ValiliaRei]

I get that he's been saying 100% town. He's been saying it in a really flamboyant way, though, almost in a way that seemed sarcastic.

[Tammy]

VOTE: broSEIDON

[Porochaz]

Lets go with this...

vote LLD

Time to do something.

[ooba]

Tammy is very definitely a she by the way NAA.

I know its early on in the day, but I would like player not voting to at least give a preference.

And I'd like these people -

Bookitty (2) - Nikanor, RIP
RIP (1) - SnowStorm,
Tammy (1) - NotAnAxehole

Not voting (2) - sangres, Lady Lambdadelta

To either shit or get off the pot.

Make a case or get on a better one.

Lets get this screening out of the road, and start discussing the lynch.

This post makes me think you're the kind of player who likes moving towards a lynch\consensus that is acceptable with your reads - and not waste time with vanity wagons.

Lets go with this...

vote LLD

Time to do something.

Then why vote LLD? Zero votes before this.

[Porochaz]

Yeah I realise... I just want LLD to do something, because she has been useless so far, and I was kinda hoping I could make her react by stating she needed to be replaced, but instead what we got was 2 crappy questions. (ie. prod dodges)

I also don't like any of the main wagons now. The third place wagon on sangres is a bit shit, toog needs to wait until tomorrow when his partner comes back and I still have issues with the BRO wagon, but I do realise it probably has to happen.

Im frustrated by a lot of people in this game and Im not sure where to go next.

Meh I'll be an ass to LLD tomorrow.

vote BRO

[Nikanor]

naa has said more than once that he thinks ckd is 100% town.

I don't trust naa's motivation, reads or anything, but.

naa said it was an attempt to get ckd nightkilled.

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor

- Where do you see ckd attacking Toogeloo? All I can find is him saying he doesn't feel the Toogeloo wagon.

I guess I was mistaken, then. Not sure how I confused that.

[Tammy]

naa has said more than once that he thinks ckd is 100% town.

I don't trust naa's motivation, reads or anything, but.

naa said it was an attempt to get ckd nightkilled.

Oh I missed that. I just remember reads list with 100% town, trust me.

[Porochaz]

naa has said more than once that he thinks ckd is 100% town.

I don't trust naa's motivation, reads or anything, but.

naa said it was an attempt to get ckd nightkilled.

Really? That seems... (like something NAA would do) scummy.

[Bookitty]

I'm waiting for a vote count (in case he is already at L-1) but I plan to vote BROseidon. There are just too many questions regarding his Cylon claim imo.

[SnowStorm]

@SnowStorm

You're going after Toogeloo for pushing for NAA to be screened. Why aren't you also pushing ckd for the same reason? The bulk of his posts have been calling for NAA's screen without explanation.

Well, why do you ask me about ckd when several other people voted to screen NAA for no real reason?

pedit: it looks like ckd did have a reason to want to screen NAA after all.

@SnowStorm

- Yes, other people were voting to screen NAA, but you were saying Toog had urgency and certainty. Ckd had urgency and certainty, too, to the point of saying that if we don't screen NAA we should lynch ckd. And yes, he did say what his reason was eventually, but at the time you made that post pushing Toogeloo, he hadn't.

There is a big difference between Toog's and ckd's pushes though. While ckd was strongly pushing NAA, for a reason that wasn't apparent to us, Toog had said he'd like to use the screen on other players but voted to screen NAA for no reason. ckd wanted to screen NAA by force, he cared about the screen target, Toog didn't.