Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 12:39 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

In post 521, Cheetory6 wrote:From earlier posts in the day, PB was saying that he'd just come back from a hiatus and I kind of get the impression that he's used to being run up a lot as either alignment and has residual annoyance from that? I think him getting pissed off at Otolia here makes sense to me in that context? I think it makes sense to me that he'd be mad as either scum or town so kind of feeling null about it overall.

Let me give you my "Mafiascum" history. I learned the game at Footballguys.com at a style of game called "Werewolf." I looked to play more games at the time and came here. I played within the culture at the time which was filled with people not posting. "No lynches" were the day 1 norm which I stuck around and argued against over and over and over. I played as much as possible and was voted "most prolific" for a year (see my wiki). I was even on a scummy committee for 2004 or 2005. However, the attitudes of people behind the scenes couple with the pace of play and "lack of engagement" attitude resulted in my leaving the site.
I came back last year after someone who I played mafia games with over at goal-line blitz mmorpg (when they played there) was over here, he convinced me to come over. I came in with an attitude already but tried playing. The current culture caught me complete off guard and initially overwhelmed with the attitude and did not know how to take it. I tried. I replaced out of 3 games where I happened to draw scum and it was different elements that escalated my frustration with trying to play here. Since I replaced out as scum 3 times, site admins had to ban me, as though my intent was not to only replace as scum and it was instances particular games, well, the action was appropriate structure. I then came as an alt and meant to blend in, but I couldn't help being antagonistic and engaged in an opening to game that I knew would get reactions. While under the alt, I did alt slip and so the connection became known. My original intent was not to be antagonistic. I finished out games and decided I was done. StrangeCoug dropped me an PM looking for folks for his game so a I came back. The pace here now is actually something that works for my work and life schedule compared to what I play at. I have looked at other "mafia" sites and they have even stranger culture then here that I know I would not adapt to. SO here I am trying and trying not to "tweak" at the culture elements that do not make sense, but I still do so. That is even strange because by nature I am amiable and like to get along with folks, so my demeaner in these games and counter-cultural tendencies I guess is really a "release" of sorts. It probably relates to my reactions to what I consider "self" involved play.
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 12:41 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

The games that started at Footballguys.net moved to an off-site private website. You would have to be approved to be at the private site, the games do not have public access. I can dig up a recent footballguys game though I think.
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 12:45 pm

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here is a smaller game- whoda sinkitis is me fyi
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/i ... me-thread/

it is a smaller game for that culture...
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 12:50 pm

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most recent game played there- https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/i ... me-thread/
I was not able to play in that game as given my schedule I knew I couldn't keep up but it should give you further idea of the culture.
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 12:53 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

fyi the private website is www.packmentality.net and members would have to be admin approved...
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 1:37 pm

Post by Equinox »

Vote Count 1.21PeaceBringer (4) - Stabulous, Wrong Song, ChaosOmega, Untrod Tripod
ChaosOmega (3) - Kop, Quilford, Dinare
Kop (3) - Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, PeaceBringer
elusive (1) - xRECKONERx
Wrong Song (1) - hitogoroshi

Not Voting (1) - elusive


With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Thursday, May 7, 2015, at 11:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-07 23:30:00).
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:04 pm

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PeaceBringer, I looked at these two games where you are town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6506533
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5340325

Can you link to two most recent scum games from your topics?

Also what does SKOT mean?

I know I asked this but how do I do the Dinare style hyperlinks that are all pretty and neat?
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:07 pm

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Also, it feels like we come from opposite spectrums. For me reasoning and cases are optimal and pro-town and also the only way to play this game (using analysis and debate). In fact, I think I've probably ignored or otherwise thought lesser of players incapable of providing reasoning. Even if I am gut vibing someone, I'll try to figure out where that vibe is coming from\what's setting it off as there must be something even if minute.

How do you scumhunt? Or on what basis?
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:20 pm

Post by elusive »

In post 440, GuyInFreezer wrote:Post

May replace out if this continues.


Make a wish...

Cheetory, was there something you asked or are you passive gonna do this?
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:31 pm

Post by Cheetory6 »

cheetory6 wrote:I want to know why the speed of a wagon has any merit on your read on PB.
Let me actively form this into a question because apparently it's not apparent enough that this is me asking you things:
"why does the speed of the wagon on PB influence your read on him?"
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:35 pm

Post by elusive »

Scum resist fellow scum wagons and derail them, in my experience or at least stall them or try to distract. Whereas when a wagon moves so quickly its probably town because no one's trying to block it whether scum or white knighting town.

Anything else?
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:42 pm

Post by Cheetory6 »

Bussing isn't a thing?
Kop counterwagon or WrongSong counterwagon couldn't be a thing?
Tell me more.
Tell me why scum wouldn't WK a townlynch.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:43 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

In post 531, elusive wrote:PeaceBringer, I looked at these two games where you are town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6506533
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5340325

Can you link to two most recent scum games from your topics?

Also what does SKOT mean?

I know I asked this but how do I do the Dinare style hyperlinks that are all pretty and neat?

Sharpest-knife-on-tree
no scum games so far this recent play... and under PB the 3 were replace outs. There are a couple as SKOT I think...
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:47 pm

Post by PeaceBringer »

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58466 Age of Apocalypse- Marvel


the other 2 were The Wire and Revolution but haven't time to dig up the link right now..
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:51 pm

Post by elusive »

In post 536, Cheetory6 wrote:Bussing isn't a thing?
Kop counterwagon or WrongSong counterwagon couldn't be a thing?
Tell me more.
Tell me why scum wouldn't WK a townlynch.


Tell you more what?

In what world would scum want to bus to lynch their own partner on day one when there are other wagons or lynches available? Is scum that subpar in their abilities?

Usually scum FOS their buddies and vote someone else. I've only seen one player who actively cast suspicion or voted a buddy for "town cred" but didn't pursue the lynch at all. Therefore, again are you saying scums are derptards or something?

WK? Explain shortcuts or I don't care.

I can't tell what the latest vote count is or when and how people jumped on to who and I don't know for sure what PeaceBRinger is but the way the wagon exploded within one day after I'd been voting him for a while seems off and weird.

His two town games that I checked out don't look massively different either from this game except 1 or 2 small things but I don't have any scum games from him to look at. I don't have time now, but can you meta him Cheetory?
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 2:59 pm

Post by Cheetory6 »

elusive wrote:WK? Explain shortcuts or I don't care.
Whiteknighting.

elusive wrote:In what world would scum want to bus to lynch their own partner on day one when there are other wagons or lynches available? Is scum that subpar in their abilities?
So you're trying to tell me that you think scum would 100% never jump on a wagon D1 for cred if they thought that it was pretty likely it was going to go through?
I'm pretty sure a lot of people bussed ika in DoA, so not sure why you're acting like that'd be unusual.

elusive wrote:I can't tell what the latest vote count is or when and how people jumped on to who and I don't know for sure what PeaceBRinger is but the way the wagon exploded within one day after I'd been voting him for a while seems off and weird.
How is it weird for a wagon to grow quickly when there's literally a day left in the cycle?

elusive wrote:can you meta him Cheetory?
Shoor.
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:21 pm

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Cheetory, who do you think on PB's wagon is bussing him?
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:25 pm

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I'm asking you why you think nobody is bussing him. I don't have a hard stance to take on PB because I don't feel particularly strongly about him being town or scum. I want to know why you were so quick to back off his wagon and your vote there because wagonspeed feels like a cop-out way to base your read on him if you thought he was scummy enough to warrant a vote in the first place.
Was your vote just not that confident or what?
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:29 pm

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Can you tell me why I voted him? Or paraphrase?

No, my day one votes are rarely confident. I kind of 1 vs. 1ed him a bit and don't have a strong feeling of scum. That's basically it. I didn't really get to 1 vs 1 anyone else, would probably want to with WrongSong and xReck and ofc want the lurkers to replace out or be gone.

An unofficial votes thing:

PeaceBringer (4) - Stabulous, Wrong Song, ChaosOmega, Untrod Tripod
ChaosOmega (3) - Kop, Quilford, Dinare
Kop (3) - Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, PeaceBringer
elusive (1) - xRECKONERx
Wrong Song (1) - hitogoroshi

I'm not going to vote PB as I'm unsure of that. I could see Chaos as lean scum because of his Otolio defensiveness.

Kop seems okay to me so far but I only know his town meta.
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:30 pm

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Cheetory, because if I were scum I would never bus on day one. Like that seems fatalistic and also unnecessary. FOS one day one but not bus. Do you have experience of scum bussing on day one and winning? It seems like very poor play though.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:33 pm

Post by Cheetory6 »

elusive wrote:Can you tell me why I voted him? Or paraphrase?
I assumed most people were scumreading him based on things that looked weird in his ISO.
Like him asking Otolia to claim at L-2.
Honestly I didn't look at your vote in particular though.

elusive wrote:Kop seems okay to me so far but I only know his town meta.
Why does Kop seem okay to you?

P-Edit: In the game I just hosted scum all bussed each other on D1 and won partially because of that. I can get that maybe you wouldn't do it, but why assume nobody else would?
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:40 pm

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The trick with scum is to do things not anticipated if they work together. It is hard to get folks to actually work together as a team, especially with no day talk. You cannot assume anything with scum. The things often "picked" out for looking "odd" are really nothing that scum actually would do. Like me pressuring for a claim at L-2 because I could easily put them at L-1... I had made threats of intent to hammer as SKOT at L-1 but that really is not effective way of getting past the lolly-gagging over claims that goes on.
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:43 pm

Post by elusive »

Cheetory,

I've only seen one player actually vote their buddy on day one on MS and then quickly move on to another wagon so my pool of experience with scum is different from yours. Why would I assume people to do something I consider suboptimal?

Kop from memory seemed to be making reasonable posts, his tone didn't feel off. He stated some things I was thinking as well. Also his questioning of ChaosOmega for reasoning behind votes made sense to me. If you vote someone there should be reasons and you should be trying to interact\get info. His questioning of CHaos who does limited reactions in thread with most also made sense.
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:44 pm

Post by elusive »

I also feel that I am slightly biased against PeaceBringer because of the way he writes, it's a little weird and I'm trying to adjust for that.
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Wed May 06, 2015 3:47 pm

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I'm not expecting you to assume it, it just seems weird that you've ruled it out and ruled out that scum could whiteknight a lynch on a townie. Speed of wagon just seems like a really strange reason to get off of someone's case, but I'll make a note to check out your vote and see whether it seems like it's being casually made or not.

His questioning/vote of Chaos also immediately followed hito saying that Chaos looked sketch and that Kop's vote on Otolia looked sketch.
He then tried to convince hito to jump on board COwagon instead of voting for him.
Doesn't that look a little bit sleazy to you? Like, look at the timing of it.

I'm gonna go eat pizza now.

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