Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.24

ChaosOmega (5) - Kop, Quilford, Dinare, Wrong Song, elusive
elusive (4) - xRECKONERx, ChaosOmega, hitogoroshi, Cheetory6
Kop (2) - Ankamius, PeaceBringer
PeaceBringer (2) - Stabulous, Untrod Tripod

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, May 9, 2015, at 11:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-09 23:30:00).

Moderator Comments

Ankamius replaces GuyInFreezer. Thank you!

Deadline has been extended by 48 hours.

[elusive]

Phone posting will be on later

Agree on deadline extension

Hito I don't know too many are using you as a shield to justify not explaining reads or cases

Cheetory is scum probs he should know better

I'd have to ISO hito and meta to know

also cheetory agreed to meta PB but hasn't

[elusive]

Chaos re list questions

[Ankamius]

hi

I've played with some of you before. Most I haven't.

There's no way in hell I'm fully integrating in two days, so if there's a specific incident that I should look into to get started at least, that would be helpful.

[xRECKONERx]

Yay @nk!!

[PeaceBringer]

Oh my god

Mod: given activity levels and replacement, can we get more time

this

[elusive]

Love the deadline, let's see if ya'll can bring game or not

[elusive]

@Equinox, as of #578 I'm voting ChaosOmega.

Ankamius:

Dinare Vs. Otolia

Kop and PeaceBringer joined the anti-Otolio wagon (being covered by Stabulous while he's on extended VLA)
Dinare's main argument still isn't quite clear to me, Otolio said something about being "prey" or I guess drawing scum and Dinare didn't like that
Otolio made a semantics kind of slip with "if I flip town" instead of "when I flip town" which was Kop's main argument
PeaceBringer's main argument was that Otolio who reached L2 at one point needed to claim or be policy lynched
Otolio refused to claim at all which was bad
ChaosOmega attacked Kop's case on Otolio
My read on Otolio is that he's weird but I'm not sure if its "language barrier\foot-in-mouth" weird or "scum weird"
PeaceBringer also doesn't always follow SVO in language but he explained that as the norm for him. I looked at his two town games and one scum game and he was more active\worked harder in the town game vs. the scum game where he was laid back. That's why I'm leantown.

Hito

In his own words, "Accountability. Town want to be held accountable to their actions; scum, their words. I used to have a decent set of "scum tells" but I've boiled it down to the tiny handful that actually work. They all tend to involve accountability in one way or another."

I don't like his playstyle and find it annoying. That doesn't make him scum though, probably seriously derp town though since his reads seem off to me. He also stated that he often doesn't read players right and gets them killed for stupid reasons. I imagine that he'd try to self-correct but that doesn't seem to be the case.

XReckoner

- Basically sheeping Hito down to the language and avoiding much day one discussion\analysis. Day one is rough and a mess but why wouldn't you be active and at least scum hunt? Why be so passive and put the work on others.

PeaceBringer

was the counterwagon to ChaosOmega and my wagon seems like a counterwagon to ChaosOmega. So while the Otolio, PeaceBringer wagons came to L2 or so quickly - the Chaos wagon keeps being derailed with people who can't post reasons.

I also don't like

Chaos'

putting me as town without reasons and then doing a 360 to vote me as scum when it becomes convenient for him to do so. Chaos also using Hito as a shield to "sheep" is bad since Hito himself has stated that his meta includes killing players for stupid reasons. I mean its not like Hito is in the MS hall of fame or a player of repute so sheeping him seems like a scum move on the part of XReck and Chaos. When their targets flip town they can point to Hito and say, "But we were just sheep..baa .."

I'd like to see

Cheetory6

under extreme pressure.

He's played with me in DOA to the finish and he was logical and careful with his reasoning there. What he said made sense and he was active and engaging with all players and also the voice of reason. Here he seems to be focused on the popular wagons (or Kop) and little reasoning\logic. Bad Cheetory6. Also didn't follow up on the meta read on PB and seems to be questioning for the sake of questioning but not actually working things out. His whole line of questioning for my change on PB was based on why I wouldn't think that scum would do suboptimal stuff. I always assume that scum have their A game on and that town is the one derping stuff up.

WrongSong

, I don't know his scum meta. His town meta is to be mislynch bait so wait and see with this one. Null to lean town.

Dinare

, I have the most null read on the this slot. It's like I can't get a grasp of it. He states he's newer to mafia so is it that?

Untrod Tripod

has been under the radar, seems to have some history with XReck? Also with Quilford?

Kop

, only have town meta on this one. If he wouldn't mind sharing his off-site scum links? However, I see the point he was trying to make about Otolio's scum slip and it doesn't feel like his cases are fake. The reasoning behind is decent and you can see the mental progression.

Can you tell me what you know of or think of Hito, that's the lynchpin. I can see town or scum motivation behind the way he's working, probably lean town but if he's town then scum are using him as shield.

[Ankamius]

First thing that's interesting: Cheetory6's response to Otolia's 'slip'. He knows why.

[xRECKONERx]

Day one is rough and a mess but why wouldn't you be active and at least scum hunt? Why be so passive and put the work on others.

because it's too hard, ill scumhunt later when there aren't 13 players

I won't get killed and then I can start being good it's fine

[Ankamius]

I'm about halfway through Hito's ISO and I'm getting the feeling that he's trying to snipe posts. Something about it feels hollow.

[Ankamius]

Yeah, I don't like hito. Individual posts don't have any issues I can see, but the ISO as a whole doesn't feel town.

UNVOTE: Kop

[PeaceBringer]

Day one is rough and a mess but why wouldn't you be active and at least scum hunt? Why be so passive and put the work on others.

because it's too hard, ill scumhunt later when there aren't 13 players

I won't get killed and then I can start being good it's fine

oh what a boat load of crap

[PeaceBringer]

of course that was in response to 1st sentence... avoiding night kill is a different motivation than waa waa waa it is too hard...

[Stabulous]

Wrong Song why not lynch Guy then? He has contributed nothing and that kind of play is wack.

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

Stabulous, do you think reading PB as lean town for trying or posting at least is wrong? Do you see scum somewhere in his posts or others?

That's a strange post. Yes, I think reading PB as town for posting is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard during my brief tenure on this site. I do indeed see scum in his posts. It's not as strong as I'd like it to be, but his play thus far has been scummy and I think he's the best lynch for today in terms of scumminess and information gained from the flip.

[Stabulous]

607- is this a list of reasons why you don't like us as people or are you planning to share useful reads about anyone except Chaos? I think your xreck comment is scummy as well. I agree he's been useless, but when he clearly states that he doesn't like to do anything day one, how is that alignment indicative? You're just trying to finger someone as an easy lurker lynch, there is almost no content in reck's ISO by which to form any sort of read.

[Cheetory6]

Slightly tipsy. Still excited about graduating wooooo.

also cheetory agreed to meta PB but hasn't

Lol. Didn't realize I was on a tight deadline.

He's played with me in DOA to the finish and he was logical and careful with his reasoning there. What he said made sense and he was active and engaging with all players and also the voice of reason.

That's just like.. not true? I don't really want to look through DoA again right now, but I'm pretty sure I focused pretty hard on 1-2 people most of D1.

Here he seems to be focused on the popular wagons (or Kop) and little reasoning\logic.

So being the second vote on that wagon means it's a popular wagon? Are you kidding me elusive?

I always assume that scum have their A game on and that town is the one derping stuff up.

So I'm on A game as scum but I'm also much more logical and playing better as town. Gotcha.
And ftr my vote was here in the first place because I disliked you more than the best alternative for a lynch at the time [Chaos] and Kopwagon wasn't happening so fucking whatever and a half at your bullshit about me knowing better. You're literally just going through the fucking motions this game and your careful unvote and all that bullshit come across as super likely to be scum trying to look good rather than town actually thinking about shit.
You can play up the overdefensive bullshit all you want, but it's coming across as a lot faker than it usually does atm.

First thing that's interesting: Cheetory6's response to Otolia's 'slip'. He knows why.

I do? What?

[Dinare]

And this makes sense in your head? I was going to stop discussion on me by making a seemingly baseless OMGUS vote on Kop, but you saw through my clever ruse?

People have a tendency to look at the leading wagon before looking at others. Notice what your vote does to the Vote count

Spoiler: VC before 356

Vote Count 1.14

Otolia (3) - Dinare, PeaceBringer, ChaosOmega
Kop (3) - hitogoroshi, Cheetory6, Wrong Song
Dinare (2) - Otolia, xRECKONERx
PeaceBringer (2) - elusive, Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (2) - GuyInFreezer, Quilford
ChaosOmega (1) - Kop

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

Spoiler: VC after 356

Vote Count (altered)1.14

Kop (4) - hitogoroshi, Cheetory6, Wrong Song, ChaosOmega
Otolia (2) - Dinare, PeaceBringer
Dinare (2) - Otolia, xRECKONERx
PeaceBringer (2) - elusive, Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (2) - GuyInFreezer, Quilford
ChaosOmega (1) - Kop

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

It was an attempt to get people to look at Kop instead. It also has the effect of deflecting from Otolia, since he drops a slot on the VC.

Elusive, why is it that you have shown repeated instances of not paying attention to the game. Believing I demanded Otolia to claim, not knowing SKOT is an alt of PB, Asking Chaos to relist questions,(questions directed at whom, exactly, you?) Voting an empty GiF wagon with only 24 hours until deadline at the time. And yet, you have shown that you're accurately paying attention to votes, and paying enough attention to post a reads list. How do you reconcile this?

Ankamius: Welcome, primarily what are your thoughts on Chaos' and Elusive's ISOs? Since those are the most likely lynches right now.

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos re list questions

Relist what questions?

People have a tendency to look at the leading wagon before looking at others...It was an attempt to get people to look at Kop instead. It also has the effect of deflecting from Otolia, since he drops a slot on the VC.

I mean, sure, people pay attention to wagons. But if a wagon is leading in votes, that means people have been looking at it and voting. It's not like Kop had no attention on him. Look at the vote counts you posted, he was tied for the most votes before I even voted for him.

Here's a game, Dinare. Rank these from most to least likely in your opinion:
1) Otolia/Stab & I are both town
2) Otolia/Stab & I are both scum
3) Otolia/Stab is town & I am scum
4) Otolia/Stab is scum & I am town

[Ankamius]

Cheetory6: Yes, you do. You just saw (technically wrong since this was back in around December or so, but the game just ended a couple weeks ago) a scum get lynched day one because of a slip very similar to this. I'd have expected you to have

something

to say about it rather than just dismissing it entirely.

[elusive]

Chaos said I'm not answering things, what has he asked that I haven't answered?

Dinare, it's possible some of that is being in multiple games and also meta-ing some people from this game. Do you have anything in particular you're asking?

As for xrevk, I've seen scum use that tactic to not give reads plus he's sheeping Hito. Why isn't he reading and commenting? I don't buy that excuse from anyone.

Stabulous, no I think you're missing how useful that post is. Try reading more carefully and hey while you're here give an update on otolios reads.

My vote on guy got me my desired results, we have an active player. I should do quilford next but we probably don't have time.

Anyone who uses nonsense to not play the game on day one, when it is difficult to ascertain anything, is actually prevention town and prs in particular from having a clear sense of the game and where people's thoughts are.

Oh and cheetory we have a deadline so I assume you'd want to meta PB befor then or were you hoping that getting me mislynched would save you the trouble of following up with your statements of intent?

[elusive]

Oh and DOA is linked in my wiki, it's a hard game to forget and your plays title from there to here is quite different.

Stabulos oh and follow up on your PB read please. I'm always surprised by where people are FOS ink and where they are voting.

[Quilford]

is it weird i'm not certain any of the four wagons atm are on scum

[Quilford]

hold on a sec, what, have we hit deadline??

[Quilford]

oh, the op says no but the latest vc says yes. so i'm assuming equi just forgot to update in the latest vc.

anyway i will do a bit of reading and then maybe change my vote