Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Mina]

...he also called your slot scum D1, MS. :/

I appreciate that you have a lot of conviction in what you're arguing and are genuinely trying, and I'm sorry for not seeing eye-to-eye with you.

ETL, you know, the slightest attempt to persuade people on Patrick, even after your death, might be nice? Since it feels like you only turned on him after he argued with you.

[Metal Sonic]

uuuuuuurghhh

this I how ETL's motivation was killed

[Metal Sonic]

...he also called your slot scum D1, MS. :/

I appreciate that you have a lot of conviction in what you're arguing and are genuinely trying, and I'm sorry for not seeing eye-to-eye with you.

ETL, you know, the slightest attempt to persuade people on Patrick, even after your death, might be nice? Since it feels like you only turned on him after he argued with you.

Promise me that if ETL flips town, and I get shot instead of you, you instavote quil in Lylo

[Metal Sonic]

It's not only that I have conviction


Whenever I have this strong a feeling, I've never been wrong before

Okay, I've only been on this site for 2 years, but still.

[Mina]

You're making me feel bad. ._____.

[Metal Sonic]

How did ooba do it!


Answer: he didn't! I dragged him for a walk around until day 7 and would have won if not FOR THE FUCKING NIGHTLESS

don't make the same mistake that abr made

We have inside knowledge Mina
That makes us closer than anyone in this game.

[Metal Sonic]

Well anyway, saying more won't actually help


How about you do some meta research on your own? I think you already have my quintessential piece of scum meta, so my alignment is easy pie.

I listed a couple of my towns games on page 93. My pushing style is very ugly nasty, I am already being very civil here lol

[Mina]

Quilford, whats in your head? You must have more than just boring back and forths with ETL and now bbmolla.

Apart from what I've just mentioned on molla, my head sez:

- I wish ETL would actually be online and keeping up with the discussion consistently, instead of visiting the thread once every two days and doing a catch-up style series of posts that contain reactionary nonsense. YES i know you can't because you post from work and have RL issues, BUT it would assist so much in reading you.

- Patrick is likely town. Gaaaah. I wish I could hook up into your limbic system so I could actually get a better sense of how you feel when you're playing the game, because it doesn't really come across tonally and it's the one thing that probably stops you from being much townier in my eyes. How emotionally do you play face to face mafia? Curious but will probably have no bearing on my read haha.

- If I thought Mina could be scum, I would be suspicious of some of her recent posts about me which look like they're trying to maneuvre into a more null read on me. But I don't, lol.

- How in the sweet banana plantation do people scumread me? KILL THEM ALL.

Find me a single post in any of Quilford's scum games that sounds anywhere near as sincere and natural and as non-surface-level-scumhunting as this. Go on.

(I would really like Patrick's thoughts now. And...ETL's thoughts. *sigh* Rereading hasn't been comforting.)

[Metal Sonic]

Mina, that isn't a very townie post, it was a lot of filler and easily fake able. A lot of metaphors and it has 0 analysis inside. Also, he is pretty relaxed because nobody was scumreading him. Read his last 40 posts and you are going to have to tell me whether his scumgame facade had been broken or not



Since you're a lovable butterfly I'll log on my computer and try to find a similar sounding quote. But it's past my bedtime

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mina - it is largely due to the argument he had with me, where he gave literally nothing valid as reasons for calling me scum. Why you are not even looking at that and going "...er.... yeah..." is beyond me. It is blatant. Disgustingly so.

Additionally, sthar has brought up several points against Patrick, which I posted.

You think quil is town. I think ms is town. Why do you refuse to look at anything I tell you? Nevermind that I'm shitty at trying to explain it, look for yourself, please. It is so painfully obvious in his ISO. Please. It is better if you see it anyway, than if I try to explain it badly.

[Metal Sonic]

iamsteve: Okay. The structure of your first post confused me.

--

mykonian is a terrible lynch. His attacks on Dannflor and Kenobi were perfectly sound at the time. I almost joined him on the Dannflor vote, and Kenobi's SSK vote was very poor indeed.

Justin is a much better lynch.

In posts #121 and #122, he goes after Kenobi big time. Each paragraph insinuates that Kenobi is scum and all the questions he asks are designed to get Kenobi more defensive and flustered.

e.g. "Can we take it that you have now abandoned lists as a part of your developing game style based solely on the criticism your first list received? Or that your play style includes immediately changing any behavior that is challenged?" what is this.

In light of questions such as these, and the fact that Justin never explicitly said 'Kenobi is scum' or put down a vote for Kenobi, saying of mykonian 'Hunting for weakness is not the same thing as hunting for scum.' strikes me as super hypocritical. Especially since mykonian's vote for Kenobi was for legitimate reasons (the really bad L-1 vote, and the dodgy replacement request once he came under fire for it).

VOTE: Justin

I get that you don't like lists. I'll make sure I spread out my reads from now on. Mmkay? mmkay.

Can we take it that you have now abandoned lists as a part of your developing game style based solely on the criticism your first list received? Or that your play style includes immediately changing any behavior that is challenged?

Kenobi, why would you worry about sounding defensive and why would you agree to abandon an element of your game that you clearly found useful just because it was criticized?

All these questions would've been answered by Kenobi with some variation of 'no, I'm just a defensive newbie' or 'because I'm just a defensive newbie'. Regardless of whether you think those answers are bad, they're already things we know, so this attempt at putting pressure on Kenobi strikes me as a good way to generate a lot of meaningless noise.

All of the votes being thrown down recently strike me as pretty terrible including Kenobi's, mykonian's, Wolfy's and Justin's. Ugh blugh.

Still, it's a bit of a bad reason to keep your RVS stage vote on him. The wagon in general isn't very inspiring. And he's still at l-1 for some reason, while few on his wagon really expressed a will to lynch him. It smells.

SSK is doing absolutely nothing at all. I don't see any reads from him except in the form of his Dannflor vote. His words are all game theory or playstyle related. They might as well be MD posts for all the specificity in them. He's scum.

I want to lynch Pyrotechnics. They produced too much setup spec and prior games analysis Day 1. Their incessant arguing with other players reads less genuine and more as a means to manufacture emotion. They seem to be attacking people for what they perceive as being incorrect rather than attacking people for what they perceive as being scummy. Also, they're hugely obnoxious.

Garuda still bugs me for the circumstances surrounding their terrible vote on Klick. The line they claimed sounded fake did not, at all, and I don't feel any Nacho-town vibes coming through. That said, they do come off better in their argument with Pyrotechnics.

Nero comes off as town on this page. Mhork's arguments are very bad, but I don't think he's scum. He seems too oblivious to how bad his arguments are.

I hate everyone talking except Nford.

???

is my voice soothing

We are soothing. We are N y Quil.

-- Quil

these are the best examples


certainly he will up his game in team mafia, even more so if he sees you in the playerlist

[Metal Sonic]

mina


i concede your point that quilford is easy to read.

i agree fully.


he is obvscum and he just changed his meta to subvert you, knowing that you're in the game

i scored 100% too. in fact i was in game 1) the 2nd fortnight.

[Metal Sonic]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

read this iso mina

read it

[Metal Sonic]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

this is a scum iso mina

you know it, i know it

[Metal Sonic]

THAT'S IT

I'm throwing down against Quilford. His meta links make me even more positive that he is scum; heck I read him 100% as well, and in fact in Second Fortnight I got a townread on him at post #300, and scumreading scum even earlier.

You want META? EAT MY TASTY BUSTER META

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go (speed up to 1464)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=58544

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

@Patrick, summon CDB for this meta piece

---

Let's see, I was scumreading quil beginning at post 400 when Molla remarked this (really late):

metal sonic still thinks Quil is scum btw

he says that walls =/= quil town

This was a reference to posts 400++, read that page again

Okay so there's no googly eyes moment like I had with Mina with anyone else who I think is town.

But I do like Patrick, because he was the first to bring up Alchemist. Until then I was kind of iffy about Al, because Al was asking too many questions and responding to people's thoughts rather than having any original ones of his own, but I also thought he hadn't spent a lot of time on the site (he's definitely the least experienced player here) #55 was too cheeky for newbscum, and he could just be newbtown. So I had kind of filed him under 'look into later' in my head.

But when Patrick brought up #121, I was like 'maybe I should take a closer look'. Then I realised that Al had posted

literally no reads

, almost all of his posts were part of trivial back-and-forths with people, and that he had done no digging after people's motivations of his own.

So I credit Patrick with putting me onto my first substantial scumread. I also like his meta-awareness about how Day 1 lynches tend to pan out in #311, because I find it very very relatable.

I am given slight pause by how easily he dismissed a lot of the early game in #121, and I'm unconvinced by his read on serra, but on the whole I think he's likely to be Town and at the very least isn't somewhere we should be going with today's lynch.

@Mina, I'm certain you know what I was referring to when I told molla "walls =/= town"

[Patrick]

(I would really like Patrick's thoughts now. And...ETL's thoughts. *sigh* Rereading hasn't been comforting.)

What are you looking for thoughts about? I am honest to god losing my will to live as my eyes glaze over more and more crap. I feel more comfortable with my vote than I probably was 24 hours ago, but mainly because Metal Sonic has repeated himself so many times and in such large letters that I think he believes it. It's obvious to me that you're town and you're worried that if I'm scum I'm going to coast to a win off this lynch, but what the shit do you want from me? We don't have any investigative roles alive so we're never going to have definitive evidence, eventually you just have to make your bed and lie in it. Like I said, I had my period of fear and paranoia that Quilford might be playing me for a fool and that I'd look like an absolute idiot if I allowed him to win while a bunch of people were screaming the right answer at their screen. Hell, I even had a period about you simply because of how absent you were from most of the day, even though I'm fully aware there are reasons for the absence. I just don't think we're doing anything now other than maybe taking a few years off our collective lives.

I don't think ETL's switch to me is much of a tell either way, and her response to my explaining why I think she's scum was exactly what I expected. I had zero interest in getting into some stupid pendantic debate that will add even more pages to this game and allow ETL to create even more noise. If you think it's going to say something important about my alignment, then I'll do it, but you'd better have a damn good reason.

If you have something interesting to talk about then go for it. I'm just not interested in waiting until the last second for the sake of it, especially not when it will force me to stay up into the small hours to see whether we've won or not.

[Patrick]

Additionally, sthar has brought up several points against Patrick, which I posted.

Points brought up by sthar that I can find:

he doesn't like Patrick because he is trying to set up multiple lynches and assuming the game goes another day rather than ending today with the lynch of his supposed scumread.

Already responded to this, and it's sheer nonsense. I'm considering the possibility that you're town because I'm not so arrogant to think I'm 100% likely to be right, and everybody (including you) is doing the same. I could equally accuse you of trying to set up multiple lynches by discrediting me.

sthar says you are attempting to take the "moral high ground" in order to justify lynching me on rather than logic. he says it's a scum tactic.

No, I thought that taking the time to type out and post that letter was pretty offensive, and my opinion of both of you went down as a result. I don't even know what scum-motivation you're assigning to me; you think I'm trying to get you lynched because you insulted someone? No idea what you're arguing here.

sthar says Patrick is trying to discredit metal sonic by trying to make it look like everything he posts has an agenda. He says he's doing the same thing to me by dismissing everything I say as AtE when it isn't and suggesting that sthar's broken rules when he hasn't.

Maybe I have a different understanding of the word agenda to most people here, since Metal Sonic seemed surprised by this. To me it's patently obvious that he came in with an agenda, since he stated it in his very first post of the game. I don't mean that he has a scum agenda. As for you, I do feel that your posts contain a shiton of hyperbole and noise, often replacing actual substance. I do not get the slightest feeling that you're evaluating your points or sthars points and trying to decide whether they're valid. I get the feeling of someone throwing everything including the kitchen sink, and I've had this feeling from you in alot of the arguments you've had with Quilford.

[Patrick]

I just did what I said I wasn't going to. I seriously don't think more multi-quote debates is what this game needs right now.

[Quilford]

Hi. I'm here again.

[Mina]

Currently I can't think of a better place for my vote than Alchemist. I think serrapaladin comes closest, but I've changed my mind a few times on whether his last two posts are genuinely scummy or just a different perspective on some things. No other vote really appeals to me at the moment.

I am given slight pause by how easily he dismissed a lot of the early game in #121, and I'm unconvinced by his read on serra, but on the whole I think he's likely to be Town and at the very least isn't somewhere we should be going with today's lynch

I wasn't interested in trying to make hay about a bunch of stuff that struck me as null, especially when there was more something interesting to go after.

FWIW, I'm also unconvinced by my read on serra.

What did you mean by this here?

(Because I legitimately think you're a GREAT fit for a serra partner based on interactions--the first quote is an example to why.)

[Quilford]

Mina, Patrick is dead on in #2365.

The fact is, my brain could come up with compelling reasons to make me want to lynch pretty much anyone in this game. ETL because she has not made a single good case on anyone all game, her poor logic and frequent appeals to emotion. MS because of his tunnelling on me and because of BB's poor Alchemist vote and ETL vote at the end of Day 2. I look bad because of my poor to nonexistent interactions with serrapaladin / Johnny. Patrick because he's been defending me at points... also the stuff in your PEDIT -___- You because of your lack of posting today, and because your spiraling self-doubt could just be a facade to set up for LYLO.

AND it could come up with compelling reasons for me not to lynch anyone in this game. ETL's tone often swings really town. MS sounds genuinely convinced I'm scum. I am incapable of playing how I am in this game as scum. Patrick has made some incredibly solid points picking apart ETL and looked town around the Johnny lynch. Almost every post you make screams townie trying to figure the game out.

You just have to take the plunge. All this means is that scum is playing well, and the player to me who looks most like scum-playing-well as opposed to actually town is ETL.

[Quilford]

I do understand your desire to make peace with your reads before almost certainly dying tonight. But short of finding some rock-solid evidence, it's just self-serving. Spare me having to vote in the middle of my uni tutorial. Spare Patrick having to stay up until 2am.

[Patrick]

What did you mean by this here?

(Because I legitimately think you're a GREAT fit for a serra partner based on interactions--the first quote is an example to why.)

I meant that I was pretty unsure about his alignment? It's what it says on the tin.

If you're asking about the second quote, the bunch of stuff I thought was null was in the first 4 pages. I said that I wasn't interested in picking at it when I thought alchemist looked legitimately scummy.

[Metal Sonic]

Just look at quilford' last 40 posts and tell me it is not fucking identical to quil's scum meta

[Quilford]

Is it identical to my scum meta? Or have I changed my scum meta for this one game? You can't have it both ways.