Paradise Lost - [Game Over]

[farside22]

Do you know why he has grapes as scum?

Nope.

Do you know why grapes doesn't seem to care that ABR hasn't called him scum prior to today?

Uhhhhhh, nope.

Then you have elb. Who's he pushing for scum today? Would you say he really pushed his case at all yesterday...?

He is saying Cho/grapes scumteam. Not pushing very hard though. The only thing I really recall him pushing enthusiastically was me last Day.

Elbirn hasn't done anything pro-town today. He's mostly just defending himself.

I was showing why grapes comment was off and noting elb's play.

Thanks for helping...

You can't treat lists like they're all numbered and evenly quantified

Which is why i asked to put them ordered.

In either case i got an interesting theory.
What if Cho, lufan, and lalaladucks is the scumteam?
Look at the playerlist and tell me what you see.

Sorry but reading through duck this round she reads natural and carefree and I see her working things out.
Lulu has just read as vi most of day 1 and 2 to me.
As for cho, I tend to always read him as scummy. Always.
I have yet to figure out his town meta vs scum meta.

[lalaladucks]

Guys, listen to farside, she's good.

I was showing why grapes comment was off and noting elb's play.

Thanks for helping...

Hahahahah okay, guess I took you too literally then.

Yeah, so I'm thinking Albert is one of those Albuquerque demons and guess what? I'm onto him so he wants me dead.
Well, Albert, you're messing with the wrong ducksgoat ._.

.___.

.____________.

[Glass]

So here's the thing, if, and only IF we lynch someone outside the 2 sinners, i want all the 2 sinners on the wagon (including myself since my sin's unimportant).
Considering the fact that the 2 sinners are still alive, the chances of one of them being scum at the very least, is high, which means that a lynch may not cause instant game over (haven't done the exact math yet), and even if they were all town, we were likely to lose with a mislynch today anyway.

If we lynch someone outside the 2-sinners the wagon should be:
SH, glass, grapes, 2 of the 2-sinners (whichever 2 we think are most likely scum)
If we lynch lala, the wagon should be:
SH, glass, grapes, lufan, Cho

I'm not convinced that there even is scum within the 2-sinners, though. It makes sense that if scum is in the 2-sinners they would kill Gaiden, but it also makes sense for 3 scum without 2-sin to kill gaiden since there is enough sin to guarantee victory if we ever mislynch.

ftr, I'm currently thinking that the scumteam is farside/grapes/Elbirn

See at first I thought this would mean town Grapes. Like, I don't see any real pressure for scum to want to bus here, so for Grapes to be universally scumread seems odd. What do you make of Cho townreading Grapes though, especially given your consideration that Cho is scum?

Depending on how many of the 2-sinners are town, we could be in LyLo for the rest of the game, so yes there is reason to bus. If you have 3 scum in a LyLo situation why wouldn't they just bus 1 to clear the others? What do you make of Cho townreading grapes?

Yeah, so I'm thinking Albert is one of those Albuquerque demons and guess what? I'm onto him so he wants me dead.

Mmmmmm... I think you are mixing up cause and effect.

[Sakura Hana]

ducks: I'm scumreading you because you keep bringing sin as a reason not to lynch you, when in reality lynching town today is game over anyway and i'm playing with that mentality, you keep saying you're town but you keep doing nothing townie, you keep accusing ABR of being "bad at scumhunting" for scumreading you, so what does that make grapes and muffin who scumread me D1?. Heck you said Gaiden was killed to point the finger at you, but no one aside from me brought it up, and i did even wait to see if someone else would bring it up, which would bring that theory credibility, but it didn't happen which made the theory even more viable. You are doing zero scumhunting, you haven't expressed your reasons for scumreading ppl, you say you scumread ABR because "he's wrong", you never explained why you scumread grapes, and you sheeped ABR's case onto farside and then you flipped your read there because "similar reads".

[Sakura Hana]

Depending on how many of the 2-sinners are town, we could be in LyLo for the rest of the game, so yes there is reason to bus. If you have 3 scum in a LyLo situation why wouldn't they just bus 1 to clear the others? What do you make of Cho townreading grapes?

Nope there's no reason for scum to bus in LyLo, they need a single mislynch to win, and the Gaiden kill points towards them being in a "Good Position" so they dont really need the extra towncred.

[Elbirn]

...Heck you said Gaiden was killed to point the finger at you, but no one aside from me brought it up, and i did even wait to see if someone else would bring it up, which would bring that theory credibility, but it didn't happen which made the theory even more viable...

If anyone cared, my conclusion regarding Gaiden being the nightkill = He was being townread /

Scum wanted me to use that as a reason to keep pushing town-Lala (I come in, see dead Gaiden, "See guys Lala did it again, she killed someone who wanted her lynched!)

/ there's scum within the 2-sin players, who wanted to use the others as a sort of shield, so they picked a 1-sinner. Said players with 2-sin are Cho, Lufan, LaLa, and ABR.

I kinda feel like you don't even read my posts, Sakura-senpaii~ v.v

[Sakura Hana]

No, i mean that no one brought it up as a reason to point the finger at laladucks. If scum killed him for that reason i'd be seeing at least somene bringing it up.

[Elbirn]

That makes sense, but I could see a world where scum were counting on me to do that for them given my tunnel vision on Lala yesterday.

....Tinfoil hat theory, Farside is the scum I'm wrong about, using my play this game and her experience with me in a previous game (Where I harped on her the whole game) to predict that I would use dead-gaiden as fodder to continue deathtunneling Lala.

[Elbirn]

See at first I thought this would mean town Grapes. Like, I don't see any real pressure for scum to want to bus here, so for Grapes to be universally scumread seems odd. What do you make of Cho townreading Grapes though, especially given your consideration that Cho is scum?

Depending on how many of the 2-sinners are town, we could be in LyLo for the rest of the game, so yes there is reason to bus. If you have 3 scum in a LyLo situation why wouldn't they just bus 1 to clear the others? What do you make of Cho townreading grapes?

See I disagree. I feel like we're so in the dark right now that scum is just waiting to pick up a win TODAY, which would mean no bussing. Why bus if they can get a win today? The only way I could see a bus today would be if less of the 2-sinners are town than we think (therefore, we're not actually in a lylo situation)

I don't really know what to make of Cho townreading Grapes, other than it means that Cho is townreading Grapes. With a majority suspecting him, it would make sense for Cho to bus if they're both scum. That isn't happening here. If Grapes is scum, his other partner *IS* bussing. Do scum split themselves up when it comes to bussing or what?

[Cho]

I explicitly said I was nullreading grapes. Stop selling my reads for what they absolutely aren't.

[Elbirn]

You seem pretty upset considering no one drew any negative conclusions from your read on Grapes.

[Cho]

This is the issue I have with Sakura's list "analysis" - just taking the 3 bottom names means practically nothing without the levels of each read in the list.

I'd also like to think if I were scum I'd be townreading grapes just to stand out. Typically committing like that isn't scum but rather town dissenting from majority in a lylo situation.

[Elbirn]

Cho The Bulge Seraphim, SIN, SIN
Sakura Hana, SIN, SIN
Albert B. Rampage, SIN

grapes
Glass

farside22, SIN
lufan131, SIN, SIN

Elbirn, SIN

lalaladucks, SIN, SIN

-----

Town, null (I cannot figure out at all anymore if part of a scumteam would want no sin so town could get it or if they would be ok with getting sin in order to help push things), drifting between nulltown and nullscum (as in I keep thinking different opposing things about these players and farside in particular I keep reading wrong and while I don't want to lynch her I also kind of do if only it didn't probably have a huge margin of error there), nullscum and I think the only lynch I actually want atm, and scum.

Also, my lack of townreads this game annoys me probably more than it annoys you.

And to be frank this was convoluted as fuck, so having Grapes listed as your second highest on the list (aside from conf-town Sakura and yourself, which is a given) is kind of understandably confusing.

[Cho]

You seem pretty upset considering no one drew any negative conclusions from your read on Grapes.

I think you're scum trying to co-opt Sakura's flawed analysis to use it as you need it, and I'm "upset" because I pointed this and the huge room for error in it out to her earlier only to get what basically amounted to an "ok sure" in response.

[Sakura Hana]

I did ask for you to arrange stuff from Towniest to Scummiest, i never asked for "tiers" thing or anything and all I said is that for you grapes "wasn't in your top 3 scummiest", if you misunderstood my words that's your own issue, but it still worked out either way.

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 5.4

Elbirn [1] - lufan131

Not Voting [8]

- farside22, Elbirn, Glass, grapes, lalaladucks, Sakura Hana, Cho, Albert B. Rampage

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

.

Deadline is May 17, 2015, at 10 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2015-05-17 12:00:00)

[lalaladucks]

ducks: I'm scumreading you because you keep bringing sin as a reason not to lynch you, when in reality lynching town today is game over anyway and i'm playing with that mentality, you keep saying you're town but you keep doing nothing townie, you keep accusing ABR of being "bad at scumhunting" for scumreading you, so what does that make grapes and muffin who scumread me D1?.

Are you seriously comparing Day

1

to Day

5

?

Heck you said Gaiden was killed to point the finger at you, but no one aside from me brought it up, and i did even wait to see if someone else would bring it up, which would bring that theory credibility, but it didn't happen which made the theory even more viable.

._. it was an issue likely to be raised by anyone, including town and I think the demons were waiting for someone else to bring it up because they'd look a bit suss if they did, don't you think?

You are doing zero scumhunting, you haven't expressed your reasons for scumreading ppl, you say you scumread ABR because "he's wrong", you never explained why you scumread grapes, and you sheeped ABR's case onto farside and then you flipped your read there because "similar reads".

I actually am trying to figure out the game and it is not easy.
Not scumreading Albert solely because "he's wrong" but, I'm telling you, in

two

out of my two completed games, I've been a VT, like I am once again, and scum have pushed me as being scum. The first time the strategy failed, when it was carried out by a newb, the second time, when it was scumHouse, it worked and scum won.

[lalaladucks]

That makes sense, but I could see a world where scum were counting on me to do that for them given my tunnel vision on Lala yesterday.

....Tinfoil hat theory, Farside is the scum I'm wrong about, using my play this game and her experience with me in a previous game (Where I harped on her the whole game) to predict that I would use dead-gaiden as fodder to continue deathtunneling Lala.

Weird, but I kinda agree with Elbirn on this one :/
Elbirn are you actually town? How can this be?

[Sakura Hana]

Huh, seems like massive's right about your reads being dependant on whether someone agrees with you or not.

[lalaladucks]

:{ I guess there's a correlation.

[lalaladucks]

Because when they agree with me, I think they're on my side and that side is town. But I guess that's really dumb since RC did the same thing with his buddying.
Ugh, this game is so frustrating.

I just don't have time to reread and analyse.

[Sakura Hana]

=/
Well with the dead people so strongly against lynching lala i'll just go for the other one.

Vote: Cho

[lalaladucks]

Do dead agree with a Cho lynch? Cause I'm having doubts about bitch!demon!Cho.

[Cho]

No no no no no.

Sakuraaaa.

[Cho]

I have no idea why they're townreading lalala but you can't seriously tell me you think she's town over me.