Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Untrod Tripod]

let me consult my team about this singer/aronis dichotomy

reck thinks singer looks town

[Titus]

@UT/Mastina, Vote Aronis then please. Let's get a scumwagon going. Let's face it here. None of us are getting the wagon we prefer. I'm not getting Singer. Mastina's not getting DV. UT's not getting Shadow. We all agree on Aronis. We have a limited timeframe to get this done.

[Cheetory6]

DV's not happening because question marks.
All of the question marks.
Mastin yell at Titus about why her reasons for defending DV are bad.
And then you can call me scum and wag your finger at me or whatever.
If you don't engage anyone and just keep saying that people are scum without trying to push it nothing is going to happen.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT's not getting Shadow

why not?

and why can't I get gamma?

[Untrod Tripod]

and additionally just because reck says it that doesn't mean I'm gonna do it

[Untrod Tripod]

furthermore, I'm of the opinion that we need to bust out of this rut we're in

I'm convinced that the town is being corralled into mislynches

we need to go for something NEW

[mastin2]

Wtf mastin. Why did you claim because of a roleblock??

Because I'm a fucking bulletproof doctor, baning me would be a horrendously stupid idea, I warned you not to, and I was absolutely not bluffing when I made the threat that I would claim to stop it?

I don't think cheetory looks nearly as town as everyone else seems to but baneing him over everyone else doesn't seem like something that's going to happen in two or so days and I don't think it's even remotely worth the sludgeslide of words that would be required to make it happen, especially when he's not even a strong scum read.
I wanted to be ACTUALLY cheeky about something in this game to try to make scum's minor night choices less predictable but don't bane UT because I fully intend to help kill him tomorrow. I've kept seeing little genuine things from him over and over like with mastin and his forgetting ffery and his general frustration at the game but none of them are actually scumhunting, and none of them are things that he wouldn't or couldn't actually feel and believe as scum.

(This post by Gamma is pretty town, though.)

Ok so I apparently missed her actual claim but even still, she's either going to die because she's the doctor or scum can take a gamble with her.

Bulletproof. fucking. doctor.

There was no way the choice to boon should have been on anyone other than me. Again, like I said, the decision to boon CDB was INCREDIBLY scum-driven.

Especially considering...hey, you know that big choice we had on D1? About how

my protections will show

? (Yes, that's for MY role. In essence, if I successfully protect...YOU GUYS KNOW IT.) "Lots more uncertainty (about the validity)" with me is bullshit given that. (Though, "lots more uncertainty" with regards to how the role works is, as I said, why I who haven't fullclaimed should have been booned over CDB who did.)

Incidentally, Gamma's stance (boon an unknown) is while not as optimal...much, much, MUCH better than booning CDB.

[Untrod Tripod]

shh

no one cares

[Titus]

UT's not getting Shadow

why not?

and why can't I get gamma?

Because Shadoweh is town given Singer's treatment of Shadoweh, there's nothing to the case you're presenting me and my team agrees. If you are deadset on that lynch, feel free to keep trying with new reasons. Show me where Shadoweh is leading us down the wrong path. I don't see it, and I'm not going anywhere I don't see.

I absolutely agree we need to bust out of this rut we are in. We need something done here. Yet, no one really is wanting to look at the Bulba wagon for the scum that are on it.

[Untrod Tripod]

yeah I'll admit it's a low-impact-player lynch

but that post by Shadoweh I quoted originally is SUCH a just-actin-casual scumpost

I think it's a great place to start

[Titus]

DV's not happening because question marks.
All of the question marks.
Mastin yell at Titus about why her reasons for defending DV are bad.
And then you can call me scum and wag your finger at me or whatever.
If you don't engage anyone and just keep saying that people are scum without trying to push it nothing is going to happen.

shh

no one cares

UT/Mastina/Cheetory, I care. I care about what Mastina says. I get NOTHING about why Cheet has such a hard on for 4ity. Same with Mastina. If Mastina could focus more on WHY DV/4ity are bad this game, rather than just saying Tales of You/lurkage that would be awesome. Like specific posts. Give me reasons why. Like I did for Singer. I will read them. I have to see a why before I feel a let's do this. Rarely do I get gut feelings on XYZ is scum without evidence.

UT, the same goes for you and Shadoweh. Can you bring me something more along those lines? Her ISO is not that big. I don't get the push, so maybe I need a new perspective. I know my weaknesses which is why I'm asking you to try to put your thoughts onto my wavelength rather than dismissing them entirely.

[mastin2]

Alright I'll say it since you seem to be too dense to acknowledge it: statements like "I'm a dead woman" or "I'm a walking dead woman" don't come from someone who's bulletproof without stipulations.

I of course will, for once in my damned life, shut the fuck up about the details of my role, tempting as it'd be to respond to this.

boon cdb

I like his ability and think he's town.

(This in particular is a godawful vote. DV's was bad, but this was worse.)

Incidentally, Titus's 4693 is so ridiculously right it's not even funny.

The doctor doesn't have as many choices to make as the tracker in theory could have. From the scum perspective, they have to plan their kills as if Mastin is correctly targetting anyways.

(This, incidentally, is evidence why a boon on me would have been better. Because my choices are far more narrow and more reliable to produce tangible results, whereas CDB's are a shot in the dark at best.)

(8)

ChannelDelibird:

singersigner

, Oversoul, TellTaleHeart, Shadoweh, ChannelDelibird,

DeasVail

,

vezokpiraka, Aronis

[L-1!]

(4)

mastin2:

Titus,

Cheetory6

, Formerfish, Bulbazak
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Untrod Tripod

(1)

Oversoul:

Gammagooey
(3)

No Boon Vote:

ActionDan,

Espeonage

, mastin2

Esp wasn't around to boon-vote pretty much, but that CDB boon wagon is as I said, awful. UT's TTH boon is objectively bad though I honestly am not scumreading it (I just think it's bad regardless), and gut reaction is actually the opposite. Butyeah, other than the possibility of Cheet being scum (he may be my third-strongest scumread, but I'm fully aware of the possibility I could be wrong), everyone I suspect that was around supported CDB. A known, easily-nullified, entity, over me, an unknown, potentially-hazardous-to-deal-with one.

(I excluded Gamma because Gamma notably didn't want to be on there, hammering mainly thanks to deadline.)

If anybody traced me last night, you're an asshole.

Sorry. I traced you. I wanted to be sure you are town and now I am 95% sure.

(That bit about it being scum's doing? Still very much possible.)

[Cheetory6]

I don't have a hard on for 4nx. I have some strong townreads atm, but nothing strong in terms of scumreads.
I'm more just baffled that you feel confident that you can hard-defend DVslot when it's relatively a blank-slate.
The best way I can put it, is that I feel like townAronis is just as likely as scumAronis to vote Bulba for survivalism and ISOdiving Aronis in this game vs other games didn't show much of a difference in playstyle. You're painting him as being blatantly scummy for a lack of content, where his meta would indicate that this is just how he plays. He could be scum for it, but I don't see it as being particularly indicative one way or the other.

In my experience, when the game settles into a comfortable place for scum, they tend to spread their votes out. I feel like that happened here and there are too many variable players on the Bulbawagon for me to feel confident in saying Aronis is scum while UT/CDB are able to hide behind PRclaims and potentially be skewing the wagon there. I think hunting off Bulbawagon is more likely to yield scum. 4nx is my best bet atm for who the scum off the wagon would be.

I need to stop being lazy and read back/organize my thoughts on him though. That will probably come tomorrow night because I'm currently getting ready to move.

[Titus]

@Cheetory, When you're absolutely getting in an angry tizzy for me suggesting your read on DV/4ity is nothing more than a lurker and suggesting you look elsewhere, it looks like you do have a hard on for the slot.

I understand you're baffled, but I don't think you've ever played with town me. Scum!me you've seen. Everything is carefully orchestrated to get the result I want. Doublebus in the game you modded, designed to get an end result. The only agenda I have as town is the truth. The truth to me is much more defined in gamestate and facts which cannot be twisted versus playstle and behavior which can be.

Even if we supposed to hunt off the Bulba wagon, I'd want to hunt for scum actually doing something to create this gamestate. This is a seasoned group of players. I doubt we'd all be fooled into chasing our tails by lurking scum.

@Mastina, don't you lurk again. That's all I have to say about your love affair right now. You are leaving me high and dry and then coming back and saying I'm great. I can't win the game by myself. I'm not a vig.

[Titus]

yeah I'll admit it's a low-impact-player lynch

but that post by Shadoweh I quoted originally is SUCH a just-actin-casual scumpost

I think it's a great place to start

You see what I did with Singer. I don't want you to analyze the content, but grab me multiple posts. Tell me what her agenda has been this game as scum. Show me a world where Scum Shadoweh is possible. You don't need to be as wordy as me but show me how. What was she doing each minor and major day phase that promoted a scum agenda?

[mastin2]

vote: DV

yay friendship.
But seriously though, I really fail to see how anyone can't get behind a DVwagon when it's literally been waiting to happen for-fucking-ever now.

(I mean, yes, this does kinda give me pause about my reads*, but seriously, doesn't take a genius to tell that DV if scum as I so firmly believe is going to get lynched, thus, bussing would be optimal.)

*My basic working idea is to bane/lynch them on an individual basis, interactive tells be damned, until there's some better info to go off of.

dv looked town early and ffery loved a lot of it

And had DV near the list of preferred lynches by the end of D1.

oh - the only reason titus isn't 100% [town] is because nacho usually has uncertainty in his titus reads. not having uncertainty is ironically a source of small uncertainty.

Lynch on me is dumb because we should at least pretend to still care about ffery

Vote: Titus

The care just oozes from you

:goodposting:

This is why Dan is town.

(Also, Esp as scum.)

Do not do the thing (lynch me) =/= Not completely sold on this slot because our team knows we have difficulty reading the player.

This defense reeks of bullshit, too.

knowing my alignment I don't see the resultant no lynch to be incriminating for him.

(If pie were reading this game, she would probably tell me that no-lynching is effectively the same as a mislynch for scum right now.)

Right now, I could probably give a tentative readslist, pending my catchup.

[Titus]

@Mastina, I'm not so sure on the last part about the no lynch being as good as a mislynch. I'll have to run the numbers again. During my insomnia last real world night, I realized something hinky happens after UT dies.

[mastin2]

Surviving townbloc:

TTH
Titus
Shadoweh

Town:

Oversoul
ActionDan
ChannelDelibird

Townish:

Gammagooey
Formerfish/Marquis

Scummish:

Untrod Tripod
Aronis
vezokpiraka

Scum:

Cheetory6
Espeonage
singersigner
DeasVail

Approximately.

[Titus]

9 alive, 4 scum.
Lynch two scum that day.
Scum kill three.
Endgame is 2 v 2. Scum win, as they will not lynch themselves. So 10 is lylo with four scum.

If we no lynch here, and presume scum kill two in UT/Mastina/CDB/TTH, then we wind up with 14 alive at daybreak tomorrow. We could then theoretically, no lynch (although optimalness would be debated) and force an 11 player lylo. If we didn't no lynch on Day 3, then we would have at most one lynch to play with.


If we lynch and guess wrong here, that puts us at 13 alive tomorrow. The game would be a pure mylo, forcing a no lynch situation as any mislynch would hand scum the game.

[Titus]

Surviving townbloc:

TTH
Titus
Shadoweh

Town:

Oversoul
ActionDan
ChannelDelibird

Townish:

Gammagooey
Formerfish/Marquis

Scummish:

Untrod Tripod
Aronis
vezokpiraka

Scum:

Cheetory6
Espeonage
singersigner
DeasVail

Approximately.

I'd move Cheetory up a bit (few things give me pause but overall townish) and DV up due to the gamestate. Aronis and Vezok would move down a bit. UT moves up as his latest play has improved dramatically and there's another reason you'll see why.

[Oversoul]

This game is absurdly scum sided.

[ActionDan]

It really isn't.

We're just in what feels like a shitty situation because the lynch we're on right now would be Day 4 in any other game and we've no-lynched/mislynched up till this point.

And tbh it's not *that bad* just yet.

[Titus]

This game is absurdly scum sided.

Why?

Any game where scum have a shit ton of PR info is going to help scum immensely but I'm not seeing where this is scumsided.
We have/had a bulletproof, a doctor bulletproof, a tracker, a possible watcher, a universal backup, a sort of innocent child and that's just the revealed PRs. We also had two lynches per day which means that town can immediately react to the results of a flip. The fact we can't get the second lynch going is not an indication of poor balance, but poor play on our part.

[ActionDan]

Also mastin gives me the tiniest bit of hope for the future.

With the future being in the form of a dead Espeonage

VOTE: Espeonage

Top two wagons atm make me want to cry

[Titus]

Also mastin gives me the tiniest bit of hope for the future.

With the future being in the form of a dead Espeonage

VOTE: Espeonage

Top two wagons atm make me want to cry

There is an Aronis wagon you know, from yesterday. We can't afford to be going off on our own atm.