In post 467, Nachomamma8 wrote:THINGS ALL PLAYERS SHOULD BE DOING:
- Comment on Lucky getting shot after the weekend. Do you agree with this shot?
- Vote on the referendums in 466. If you have an additional case/comment on your vote, please post using the format to make linking easier.
- If your name is: West, millar, Perpetual Nonsense, or enomis, please post more/make more of an effort to engage with the readslist in 462 so that I can get a more comprehensive read on you. If you are on the scumlist and my read on you is incorrect, please also make more of an effort to interact with me and talk about my reads.
Yes. Shoot lucky. I think at this point, your rationale on Lucky is good enough. I still think lucky is town, but I think it's worth the shot. The most important thing is that Lucky reads everything no matter what before your shot is made. RedCoyote I think can have more utility later on and there's more in terms of connections that I'd like to see grow before I'd want to see Red's flip.
In post 466, Nachomamma8 wrote:
1.1
Target: Vonflare
Accuser: Nachomamma8
Rationale:
I didn't like that he put out that readslist early game. There's a very distinct difference in how town and scum approach readslists and that's generally that town players form readslists because they're trying to have a comprehensive place to put their reads while scum are making a readlist just to show content and look town and, considering vonflare didn't really have any reads he was confident about, it definitely seemed like the latter. I also didn't like how he immediately went from scumreading flubber and nullreading Nonsense in his readslist to not scumreading flubber; I can't see why he as town would back down from that read so quickly without any sort of explanation at all. The "template" excuse also falls sort of flat since a template of "oh let me copy paste names from the front page" really isn't difficult at all. I also don't like the excuse for being late on the "shoot me" discussion being that he was ninja'd for 20 minutes straight, although this point isn't a particularly strong one for me. I have trouble seeing him misremembering what exactly happened and coming up with the ninja'd excuse. I also don't like how harshly he's fallen off.
Evidence:
184 (Readslist),
190 ("Ninja'd"),
221 (Flubbernugget Contradiction).
YEA (0): people who voted yea here.
NAY (0): people who voted nay here.
1.2
Target: CB
Sponsor: Nachomamma8
Rationale: CB's posts this game have rang very genuine to me. Theory in 158 seems like it's coming from town since that's very certainly not what happened in the mafia thread. Talking about the vonflare trap in 238 additionally seemed like a bit of a paranoid but overall a very genuine concern which I also liked a lot. The paranoia directed towards pablito in 287 for the "you seem like you know I'm town" is excellent excellent excellent, and the theory for the twitter post originally posited in 238 being followed up on in 337 looks absolutely fantastic because it shows that he's still thinking about and revisiting old lines of thought. This is a very town mindset.
Evidence:
158 (Gunbearer Strategy),
238 (Trap/Initial Twitter Post Suspicion),
287 (Pablito Suspicion)
YEA (0): people who voted yea here.
NAY (0): people who voted nay here.
1.3
Target: Wanderer
Accuser: julienvonwolfe
Rationale: Here our friend Wanderer proposes normal mafia playing techniques (voting, lynching those with the most votes) as if they are incredibly useful scum hunting techniques. I'll admit that there's a reason that we use them in every other game, just about, as getting people to state their opinions is good for town, but I don't like the suggestion that we coerce (or constrain, perhaps) the gunbearer. From my perspective, the gunbearer is confirmed town, and any majority opinion of players will include scum joining and maybe even steering the wagon. I trust the gunbearer more than the collective will of the players, in other words.
But what really rubs me up the wrong way is the 'cosmetic' vote (because of course votes don't matter anyway, right, guys?
) and then the jumping on people like dcl and vonflare, both of whom seem to me to be more divisive than scummy.
Evidence:
177
YEA (0): people who voted yea here.
NAY (0): people who voted nay here.
1.4
Target: Wanderer
Sponsor: Nachomamma8
Rationale: The "I'm trying to figure out to post without dropping towntells" statement in 259 is one that I've been thinking about a lot lately and I very strongly feel there's no way in hell it comes from scum. The frustration with the suspicion surrounding her in 441 is additionally a really good post if scum, and the last post of 383 is good aggression that seems very unlikely to come from scum who was just coming under a lot of pressure towards someone that just backed off. I will probably explain this read further in player-specific rebuttals since there's a lot of suspicion on the slot but I can't really see a scenario where I shoot her as long as I hold the gun.
Evidence:
259 (Towntell post),
383 (Backlash against enomis),
441 (Shoot me and get it over with)
YEA (0): people who voted yea here.
NAY (0): people who voted nay here.
1.1 NAY. Do not shoot for that reason, I don't agree with the suspicion.
1.2 NAY. Do not shoot, is very, very town.
1.3 NAY. That rationale does not stand up for me.
1.4 NAY. I do not buy that argument, and I think wanderer actually falls in the middle for me at the moment, but would not agree on putting wanderer in either town or scum pile based on that argument.
Don't forget you can disagree with the rationale but yet still think someone is scum and want to see them shot.
As such, with vonflare, I see
#382 as significant for the future. I'd be willing to see vonflare shot just to see if there's any connection then to Red or Maxwell. I see vonflare as opening up further discussion and making self known despite previous reads being completely blank. vonflare's defensiveness also seems very distracting from anything else. I'm changing my mind on vonflare being town now. I am starting to see how von can be scum. That being said, my vote remains NAY on 1.1 because the rationale from nacho does not match mine.
In post 345, MaxwellPuckett wrote:
Finally, pablito: That voting system. I like it. You suggested it. I kind of expected you to try and implement it too. Why are you not doing that?
When you suggested it, you were looking for opinions or better ideas than your own, right? And I agreed with your idea, so naturally I should be the one to 'force' everyone else to go along with it too? First: what? And second: It's not something that can be forced. Everyone has to agree, or at least the majority needs to agree, before something can be done.
Nacho: How do you feel about pablito's suggestion? If anyone can lead that off the ground, it'd be you, and I think it's something we can do.
Everyone:
Same question.
I am glad Nacho and wanderer started it off. Maxwell,
No
we do not have to agree. This is a lynchless game. Agreeing is the least of our worries. The whole theme of this game is about not agreeing. You wanting to put the implementation of the system to agreement by the majority...well it sounds like you're pussy footing again.
FoS: Maxwell yet again
In post 453, MaxwellPuckett wrote:pablito: I'm a bit confused. You said you expected more from me than from Wanderer, which, while flattering(?), does not make much sense to me. I've never played a game with you before, and Wanderer has considerably more games than me. This is my first non-Newbie on the site, ie my third game. Are you saying that you've read up on both of us, and think I'm the better player, or did you think I had a strong start in this game, while Wanderer did not, and now I'm not living up to your initial expectations?
As for my thinking Millar is not vengeful: Lazy play. There's a difference between laziness and lurking, and there it is. Millar is currently bored with the game, and that makes me think town or vanilla maf, not vengeful. I believe vengefuls would be doing more to avoid being the shot. Doing things that don't involve blatantly saying that Flubber will be the shot, for instance. I don't think a Millar shot is worth it.
But, apparently Nacho is avoiding Vengefuls, and would like to be shooting in inactives for that reason. I guess I can understand that, as Nacho wants to stay alive and be more useful, it's just the opposite of what I'd like to do. But since I haven't been able to propose an active shot of my own, I guess I can't blame anyone for going the inactive route. So, considering that, I guess Millar is as good a shot as any? But I'll look at Wanderer's proposals right now.
As for why I treated Maxwell and wanderer differently despite both talking about my voting system - wanderer clearly did not understand it. Pass given. Maxwell has not yet stated any difficulty with understanding it. Pass not given. That being said, I did force Maxwell to comment on the system whereas wanderer did so voluntarily. That is because I had a gut feeling on Maxwell and I'm pressuring Maxwell to fit my initial read. I will not deny I am hyperfocused on Maxwell and overly biased.
@Nacho - replying to your 468.
I agree with your rationale for your viewpoint, but if I become gunbearer, I'm holding all non-voters accountable and putting them on my short-list. The more non-voters not in the game, the easier it will be for those left behind.
Also the referendum system was used in a lynch-based game. It helped guide discussion. Here in this game, it will help somewhat, especially since very few people are actually voting. I fully expect the GB to make a decision independent to his/her own scum-finding tactics. The GB is already confirmed town and his/her continuation in the game relies on the shot taken.
Sup, later.
