Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

vezokpiraka · Post Post #5950 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:22 am

Ah. That claim is horrible but I still want aronis dead.

Titus guide me.

Gammagooey · Post Post #5951 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:24 am

it's legitimately possible they're both scum.

but 4nx is verrry likely scum with that claim and in case aronis isn't I don't want him to have to claim yet.

Oversoul · Post Post #5952 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:24 am

Why would DV trace Espeonage if DV was town reading Espeonage for almost the entire game?

Before Minor Night 2, DV made a really big post explaining why he thought Espeonage was town. You don't use your trace like that if you think the person is town.

Titus · Post Post #5953 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:37 am

Vezok the response to you.

In post 5952, Oversoul wrote:Why would DV trace Espeonage if DV was town reading Espeonage for almost the entire game?

Before Minor Night 2, DV made a really big post explaining why he thought Espeonage was town. You don't use your trace like that if you think the person is town.

You trace the people you're feeling paranoid about, and could be mislynch wagons.

I do see the Viktor tracking claim being real. Viktor traking is a relatively weaker power-role, it detects only one scum and comes with additional baggage that makes him look scummy if he claims that. I don't see scum putting together a claim with a suspicious PR here. I'd expect something more traditional, ala gunsmith. That claim would be much better than a Viktor cop. Given Viktor is essentially someone who can just claim that he traced the entire time and get away, putting a Viktor counter role makes sense.

If there wasn't a role that could detect Viktor, why wouldn't they say that Viktor IMMUNE to all traces. Instead, the role says that any trace on Victor will "return no result".

Target a player. If they detected and you were not Traced, you will receive the name of the player they detected. Otherwise, you will receive no result.

Again, no result. The word choice is key IMO.

I like the idea of eliminating players as Viktor. If 4ity was scum, why would he eliminate players as Victor? He could say something like that Minor Night 1, tracked TTH, got no result. Given we know that TTH was

already

fucked with by Vezok, claiming that makes more sense than clearing Singer of being Victor.

He then using his trace on someone widely scumread to protect them or readjust his reads.

When he clears them both of being Victor, he votes with them. He's still totally wrong, but the narrative there makes sense to me.

Titus · Post Post #5954 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:39 am

In post 5950, vezokpiraka wrote:Ah. That claim is horrible but I still want aronis dead.

Titus guide me.

We don't lynch 4ity. Mislynching is the worst thing we can do here. He has to give us another result before we lynch again as I highly doubt scum will kill him.. CDB can track him (if you still think it's plausible that CDB will get a result at all).

If we don't lynch Aronis, we no lynch. That is the proper play here.

Oversoul · Post Post #5955 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:42 am

In post 5953, Titus wrote:If there wasn't a role that could detect Viktor, why wouldn't they say that Viktor IMMUNE to all traces. Instead, the role says that any trace on Victor will "return no result". Target a player. If they detected and you were not Traced, you will receive the name of the player they detected. Otherwise, you will receive no result. Again, no result. The word choice is key IMO.

I mean that is basically a modified Ninja. Given the fact that all traces will fail on Viktor, it would be easy to narrow down suspects to WHO is Viktor based on Trace results. I don't think we actually need a specific role to get that.

Oversoul · Post Post #5956 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:43 am

In post 5953, Titus wrote:I like the idea of eliminating players as Viktor. If 4ity was scum, why would he eliminate players as Victor? He could say something like that Minor Night 1, tracked TTH, got no result. Given we know that TTH was already fucked with by Vezok, claiming that makes more sense than clearing Singer of being Victor.

This makes no sense. Traces do not stop Detects from going through. Only other Traces stop Trace.

Gammagooey · Post Post #5957 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:45 am

i now support lynching titus for being awful

after we lynch 4nxi3ty

and ut

and shadoweh

so
eventually

Oversoul · Post Post #5958 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:46 am

Vezok, why did you Detect Tammy with the boon?

Titus · Post Post #5959 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:47 am

@Oversoul, we can only narrow down who Victor is if we risked outing all PRs. Too risky. By having a Viktor cop, we can narrow down who Viktor is, and have people claim traces if they failed on people that 4ity has not checked.

The implication of which one of you people traced me was that TTH traced and did not detect. So I'm not sure on your second point.

Oh and I am posting if there's a question directed specifically at me and I'm here.

Titus · Post Post #5960 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:48 am

In post 5957, Gammagooey wrote:i now support lynching titus for being awful

after we lynch 4nxi3ty

and ut

and shadoweh

so
eventually

Wow, I'm just awful really. That's it. I'm actually thinking your rush here to condemn 4ity is terrible despite some of his claim you believing. But it's horrible in a logical sense. You've got one worldview and you're not even listening to reason.

Titus · Post Post #5961 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:49 am

Oh I forgot. Viktor just saying he traced causes all trace results to fail.

So Viktor would claim VT here. No questions asked. So he can't just be detected by failed traces.

Gammagooey · Post Post #5962 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:51 am

titus

i've already explained exactly why I think what I do about the claim

I think it's very likely made up by scum and you using hito's wording of Viktor's ability to defend 4nx when it needs to be worded that way to function with how it returns no result when the tracer is also being traced is fucking horrific.

Gammagooey · Post Post #5963 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:53 am

also

literally EVERY TRACE IN THE GAME HELPS TO ELIMINATE VIKTOR

saying he's town for claiming something slightly more powerful but still useless against 3/4ths of the scum team is mind bogglingly stupid.

Oversoul · Post Post #5964 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:53 am

In post 4741, TellTaleHeart wrote:If anybody traced me last night, you're an asshole.

Wait, why is this an issue? Traces do not prevent Detects from going through?

Titus · Post Post #5965 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:54 am

In post 5962, Gammagooey wrote:titus

i've already explained exactly why I think what I do about the claim

I think it's very likely made up by scum and you using hito's wording of Viktor's ability to defend 4nx when it needs to be worded that way to function with how it returns no result when the tracer is also being traced is fucking horrific.

So basically reading the first post is horrible? Yeah. I should have listened to UT on you. Shame, if he could have actually given reasons.

You've not said ANYTHING of substance on 4ity's claim being horrible. You just said, this part sounds true, but that part sounds bad. So I'm going to jump straight to the bad part. You're not asking WHY? Why would scum do that? Town?

You're just shoving it down our throats. Yet, that's exactly what happened with Bulbazak.

Titus · Post Post #5966 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:55 am

In post 5964, Oversoul wrote:
In post 4741, TellTaleHeart wrote:If anybody traced me last night, you're an asshole.

Wait, why is this an issue? Traces do not prevent Detects from going through?

Nope. Detects work even if traced. Traces only block Traces. Read the first post again.

Oversoul · Post Post #5967 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:55 am

In post 5959, Titus wrote:@Oversoul, we can only narrow down who Victor is if we risked outing all PRs. Too risky. By having a Viktor cop, we can narrow down who Viktor is, and have people claim traces if they failed on people that 4ity has not checked.

The implication of which one of you people traced me was that TTH traced and did not detect. So I'm not sure on your second point.

Huh?
You don't need PRs to out themselves to narrow down who Viktor is. All it REALLY takes to find Viktor is to get a no result on a Trace on Viktor. Everyone has the Trace ability. That is not outting a PR.

What do you mean "implication of which one of you people traced me"? No one has said that they traced you. TTH has *never* traced. She has been detecting all game.

Pedit:

Yes I realize that, I am just wondering why TTH said that specifically.

Gammagooey · Post Post #5968 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:56 am

@oversoul-no, tth tried to trace last night

probably n1 too? but im not sure about that

Gammagooey · Post Post #5969 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:57 am

oh no nevermind he did detect dv n1

vezokpiraka · Post Post #5970 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:57 am

In post 5958, Oversoul wrote:Vezok, why did you Detect Tammy with the boon?

This looks like rolefishing.

I chose tammy because she was my bet for widely towmread scum. I wanted to know this in case of weird claims.

Oversoul · Post Post #5971 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:58 am

It is literally not rolefishing since you claimed it earlier. But sure, enjoy your Tinfoil hat.

vezokpiraka · Post Post #5972 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:58 am

I think I'll vote 4nx. I want tth chime and tell us his detect result.

vezokpiraka · Post Post #5973 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 5:59 am

In post 5971, Oversoul wrote:It is literally not rolefishing since you claimed it earlier. But sure, enjoy your Tinfoil hat.

Yes it is. If I say for role related reasons you know I'm PR.

Titus · Post Post #5974 (ISO) » Sat May 16, 2015 6:02 am

Espy claimed a trace on me, but that's beside the point. You misread that sentence.

TTH said that specifically because his trace failed. His trace failed logically because someone else traced him or he hit Viktor or a VT. If no one traced TTH that night, we knew that TTH's trace target was VT or Viktor. Yet, now we know nothing because Vezok traced TTH.

Yes, we do have PRs out to determine who Victor is. VTs trace. Our PRs detect. We go around claiming traces, then we confirm who is a PR and who is a VT.

A trace on Viktor actually confirms nothing. Any Viktor, given the fact if someone traced them is going to claim to trace every night.

VT Trace (TTH) + VT Trace (Target) = no result = false positive on Viktor.
Vezok trace TTH === Auto No Result
TTH traces Viktor == No result.

^^ Those are the three scenarios we could have had.