Micro 465: Molla's New Roles Mafia - GAME OVER

[Taly]

Taly, other than the SK game you referenced earlier, do you have a completed (or finished, whatever, I always get those mixed up) scum game of yours I could look at?

Actually, no I haven't. I'm serious.

I never fucking roll scum. X_X I can link you all my games to confirm if you don't believe me.

[Taly]

Saul, if I were scum targeting Sns/Yakko

Do you really think I'd keep him alive until lylo - AFTER waiting for a replacement?

Specifically if I targeted him my role PM last night? 632 He confirmed this.

Plus, he killed House. House was ON his slots ass last dayphase - do you really think scum would pass up an opportunity to get an assured-vote of themselves in lylo?

I'm not faking or lying about anything.

[snscompt1]

I can read but, I mean, what are you waiting on me for? I'm conftown now; it's your job to convince me that Taly is scum and you aren't.

As I said above: My making comments just tells scum what to say. I have things I want to look at that I can't here, and I really hate that you can't answer of the questions I put to Yakko, so that just sucks.

I will ask why you're not voting for Taly, that's just standard play in LyLo. Let's say I decide he's scum, do you want to hammer for some reason?

I was waiting to see if Taly's post screamed scum to you. Apparently not. Some things just stand out to me and I think others think the same way.

I was on mobile, which is why I said I wouldn't really be posting until late last night or today. I'm now at a computer. Doing voting and tags and such is a pain on mobile.

However, I am curious, why does it matter if I vote Tally? You have the deciding vote regardless. If you decide that I'm not town and vote me, then I die. If you decide Tally is scum, as I hope to show you, and you vote her, I'm obviously going to vote her. So what does it matter? You won't be voting until you're certain, right? This isn't important, and we can discuss it post game I suppose.

VOTE: Taly

[snscompt1]

Also, if I were scum.

Why the fuck would I target you to see my role.

Then try to get you lynched in lylo afterwards?

Why would you target me at all? That's one of the reasons I was confused. You're saying I'm scum and plan to vote me the next day. Why didn't you target Saul? As scum you'd want to target Saul to get him to vote me, and town!you would think the same way. So asking me why you did what you did is redundant as I'm not you and can see no clear reason why you did.

[snscompt1]

Plus, he killed House. House was ON his slots ass last dayphase - do you really think scum would pass up an opportunity to get an assured-vote of themselves in lylo?

I'm not faking or lying about anything.

I checked Houses posts from yesterday and he barely posted. He more or less said "yakko is scum by PoE". That's all. He never made a case despite how much you tried to get him to do it for you.

You say you're not faking or lying. If you were actually town, you wouldn't need to say that because you know you arent. It seems like you're moreso trying to convince yourself that you're not scum compared to Saul.

So, for the first lie, stretch of the imagination, whatever you wish to call it, please quote on the previous day where House was "ON his slots ass".

I didn't kill House. I have no more shots left, and I obviously didn't die. So it wasn't me.

You've come up with this argument as to why I killed House, so let me return the favor by sharing what I think happened.

House was a Rolestopper. He could potentially cause scum to not make a kill. You needed that gone. In addition, he already confirmed your role and supported you because of that role. Now you kill him before he changes his mind so you can say "House said I was town and knew my role" even though he's dead.

[snscompt1]

Remember House? Yeah, I'm sure you killed him because he probably would be voting for you again today.

Speculation and wifom. You could've killed him to make this argument. And other things I've already stated.

[snscompt1]

I'm self confirming I'm town, and backing up with my role. Shouldn't you be doing this as well?

Confirming you as town? Uh, no.
Confirming myself as town based on my role? Uh, no. Role is not alignment indicative. Furthermore, if I had a scum role, mine would be more town than yours since mine would punish town for killing scum. Not very balanced. But like I said, role does not equal alignment.

Yes, you said that maybe my role consisted of telling people the role I wanted them to hear. You're painting what I've said as my role and what it does as entirely something else.

This is a "New Role" game. I threw it out there as a possibility. I've already stated I don't think that that is the case, so how am I painting a picture without a brush? I'm not the Picasso Painter

I targeted your slot since the beginning of the game? Where did this come from? I've announced suspicion of your slot, yes, but I never gunned to get you lynched and I always had other suspicions and thoughts that took priority over yourself at the time. Also, I was NEVER at a full "distate" with your slot, I've said I wasn't fond of what I've seen and I found it scummy, but you're blowing my interactions with your slot out of what it is.

Will come back to this later.

Honestly, if you were that much of a problem - I would have NKed you already, I'm not a fucking idiot. I don't take chances in mafia especially when I'm scum.

How would you know that I would be a problem? I hadn't posted any content yet? I didn't even know who was the last town out of you and Saul. You're making an argument based on information you didn't have at the time but do now.

You say Yakko was a lurker as if it wasn't a negative thing... He wasn't paying attention to the game? Why is that not at least somewhat raise for concern? Plus, why are you targeting me now because I'm sure as hell not the only person who has targeted your slot for it.

No, Yakko lurking was a negative thing. But I'm saying from what I saw, he wasn't watching the game at all. Scum watch the game and lurk, which is the argument you're trying to present. He wasn't. I know his role. His posts show lack of coherence. Not paying attention isn't a concern besides requesting a replacement. He eventually did get replaced.
I'm "targeting" you now because you're proven scum. Why would you want me to target anyone else? Would you like me to target dead players or Saul? Who would you like me to target? I haven't started making arguments until today.

Are you kidding me? You do know that I didn't vote for you in D3 because I was WAITING for a replacement. Do you honestly think I'm this dense? Why in the HELL would scum just sit and wait for "possibly a little less competent" player come in and let them fuck themselves over?

I... Sns, your argument makes no sense.

By the way, if you are saying "OMG YES." like you've "caught" scum, where is your vote to back it up? Otherwise, why are you now coming out with these BIG posts trying to paint me as scum saying "YOU'VE MADE THE BIGGEST MISTAKE KEEPING ME ALIVE. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAH!"?

I thought you were going to explain your shit TOMORROW, not randomly just wait for me to respond.... Then launch a post against me?

Sigh... House really was right about you being scum.

This is just a mess. You're really using a lot AtE right now. With just a tad bit of flailing.
None of this makes any sense.

[saulres]

Hey where'd my post go? I had a medium-length post and it's gone. Dammit.

I don't want to figure it out again. Basic gist was I'm going to be looking at stuff today when I get some downtime at work and I'm sorry for sns he replaced into such a horrible slot no matter what his alignment. And I'm hoping if sns is town that he can find an actual scumslip on Taly's part or can convince me that Taly's interactions with MoP point to Talyscum more than Yakko's interactions point to Yakkoscum because right now it doesn't look good for sns at all.

[saulres]

I don't want to drag this out. sns's next post will determine if I hammer him or if he finds one of those things I'm looking for and it gives me fuel to turn my suspicion around.

[saulres]

Sorry sns.

[snscompt1]

I have more reasons I found that further prove Taly being scum and can post them in 5 minutes as I already have it typed up and mostly finished.

However, you're saying that this post I'm making now determines the game. I'd rather not waste it on arguments that won't look at without discussing it.

Instead, I have a question for you Saul:
What the hell are you doing?

There has been no case AT ALL made against my slot that makes me scum besides Yakko being inactive. You've done nothing to help this.
I have found quite a few reasons proving Taly is scum. You've made no comment on those.
You said it's up to me to change your mind. Are you excluding yourself? You're done with the game and just quit if I don't do a good enough job convincing you?

You're willing to bet the entire game on this. You won't go digging and see how Yakko wasn't scummy at all? That falls on me only? Bull.

I'm quite pissed right now that you're just saying "fuck it" and going to hammer if you don't like this post. Drag out the game? It's been 1 day since the thread opened. I've been actively trying to show you how Taly is scum.

Before you give up, read my posts again. Read Taly's. Then if you still feel like saying "fuck it", I won't stop you. I'm not as invested in this game as you should be but at the moment, I seem to care more than you. You decide who dies. You decide the game. Don't fuck it up.

[snscompt1]

OK, we'll see how your heads play in this game. I just think it's cleaner if you had a less volatile reaction. However, I don't believe scum would say that out of the gate(A reason why I am liking the McMenno push, but I want an answer from him). So I am thinking you're being genuine in your response to me for the most part. Very slight town lean.

I do feel that 164 is townie from MoP.

The first two interactions Taly has with MoP, both giving reasons for him to be town based on....being genuine?

Why does everyone on the McMenno wagon have at least 1 vote on them? I find this interesting. Could there be a connection?

counterwagon shenanigans if he's scum?? idk. hard to say without knowing his alignment? who was this question to?

your vote is good tho. even though i'm unsure about how to feel him/his wagon, i feel oddly apathetic towards the wagon due to.. how he's handling it? i don't know if that's the best way to describe it.

....bulge isn't caught up >_> i guess he doesn't get a say this time.

This set off alarms. Not at first, but after I found Taly was scum. MoP is directing him to keep the vote on McNuggets. Tally was on the McChicken wagon and put him to L-1. Perfect scum spot. Not the person to throw the hammer if wrong, and yet far enough at the end of the wagon to make it seem natural.

I would have expected McMenno to claim an alignment along with his role

*blink*

*blink*

Um... What? Why? Isn't it obvious what alignment he'd claim?

Yeah, he would claim town. But the thing that is weird, is that he didn't claim town? He is at L-1, shouldn't he have made a connection between his ability and alignment? That would have given us more than just a "his ability isn't specific to an alignment, so we should wait to see if he is true." Asking him to claim wasn't just to see what he could do with his role-abilities, but to see how he would answer it.

I could be looking into it too much, but it catches me off guard where McMenno didn't say anything about his alignment. It could be he was trying to avoid saying something he shouldn't.

286

Nice try, please provide a reason, or thought - if you think menno is scum, then give an intent and say how so.

that's really not wierd. EVERYONE claims town, it's obvious and unneeded.

Tally has been obsessed with claiming alignments all game.

Why?

Because he's scum. He messed up. Why would a true townie ask someone elses alignment? They wouldn't. Taly insists that his role makes him town. How?
Since when does a role equal alignment in these type of games? It doesn't. Taly has been trying to convince everyone that he's town based on his role. That's scum just trying to find an easy way to make a win through invalid reasoning.

Why is this slot scum?

Taly has been off since the beginning. I took the time to show that as soon as I found out you were town. I'm not scum. It's right there in front of you.

[saulres]

I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm not as good as I used to be. I think I lost my confidence after the Pet game.

I also don't want to fuck it up, but I feel I will no matter what I do. I think the things I wrote in the post I lost explain a bunch.

So, the problem is, the things you see as scummy are how Taly's been all game. Search the thread for "read the game" and you'll see. But my meta search of him shows that's kind of how he is. I don't find scum in that, I find it a playstyle.

But if you want me to, I'll put together the case I have for Yakko being scum and Taly being not. I will say that there were a

lot

of things which I thought point to one slot, and then the other, and then said "It could be either of these and I have no way of knowing", such as why shos was killed N2 -- I can come up with reasons for anybody having done that.

A lot of my reasoning comes from what I see as the MoP interactions with the two slots, as well as what I've felt from other things. I'll get the quotes for the MoP interactions in a minute here and highlight the pertinent parts. The "other things" are mostly "Yakko was getting townreads from out of nowhere, while Taly was hesitant". Yes, I know scum can be hesitant to keep their options open, so again I come back to Yakko saying --

Oh, you've posted again, I see that when I go to get his quote. Let me read.

Okay, the thing about him associating role with alignment? I don't see that as scum, I see that as obtuseness. I don't think it's calculated, you have to present it that way whether you're town and you do or you're scum and you want to present it that way.

Where was I? Oh yes. Yakko.

Hello peeps. I read through and nothing stuck out except some meta stuff? Idk the whole fluff vs trolling thing very minuscule and trivial. Shos no clue what to think of them.

Made of people seems town to me.

The good cop seems easy enough to read imho. House is an enigma to me. umm Von flare don't like the self vote and definitely dislike a lot the Unvote immidiately after. though the self vote was looking for scum on their part. It makes me think them town for now. That's all I recall will read through again tho.

The vonflare townread there is bizarre to me. The MoP one makes

no

sense, because MoP didn't say anything game-related at all before then. There's

nothing

to get a townread on them from by that post and yet Yakko had it. Can you explain what might be in MoP's posts before 84 that would give

anyone

a town read on them? I'd love it if you could. And then 87 is just incredibly uncomfortable. So that just stands out to me more than Taly's "genuine" comments.

[snscompt1]

Thank you for responding and not just hammering. I feel like I can work with you.

I don't need you to present a case as to why you think Yakko is scum and why Taly isn't. I just need to make sure you understand why you're voting before you do. I've seen no arguments against me making me scummier compared to Taly. If you have them hidden away, fine. You get to decide. I just want to make sure you think about who you decide to vote for before just doing it because I can't see myself as scum, nor Yakko.

You said that Taly is pretty much just being Taly, that's fine. I've never played with him and only meta off of games I've played with that person if at all. However, someone can act the same regardless of alignment. Just because they act the same as they did in one of their town games, doesnt make them town.

I wish I could explain Yakko's thought process. I really do, but I can't. Every time he posted it looked like he randomly read a few posts and made up reads based on nothing. I can't explain him any better than you can and I'm the one that replaced him. Imagine how infuriating this is for me?

As for getting a townread on MoP. I can't give you that unless I make it up. I already know he's scum. Searching for reasons as to why he would be town would be me looking for something that isn't there, and then exaggerating it. I don't see MoP as town.

[saulres]

Spoiler: This is what I mean by obtuseness

I would have expected McMenno to claim an alignment along with his role

*blink*

*blink*

Um... What? Why? Isn't it obvious what alignment he'd claim?

You should dissociate role claims from alignment. My role, for instance, is provable, but says absolutely nothing about my alignment.

Made nine semi newish roles, made two of them randomly mafia.
Certain roles may or may not have been chosen to definitely be town.
Mafia can use nightkill and action in the same night.

at least tell us who you targeted.

Seriously, can you READ THE GAME? He answered this already.

And we know there's only 1 scum left because the mod said so. I've already quoted it once and don't want to do again.

READ THE GAME

Players may vote for No Lynch. A No Lynch will be hammered at half of living players, not half-plus-one.

So only 2 votes.

I think there were more but you get the idea. All of these were directed at Taly.

But I'm back to having patience. It's hard for me. So I would now like Taly to come in and explain to me why he didn't seem to be reading the game, without it going back into a rant. The evidence is in my spoiler, Taly, and that's just me. can you please explain what was going on?

pedit: Right, I know you know MoP's not town but that highlighted bit? That struck me as odd when I lived through it, before MoP's alignment was revealed. I'm asking you to look at the content of MoP's posts objectively and see if there's anything in there that's alignment-telling to the point that someone

could

have gotten a townread off of them.

I said it before, and I'll probably say it again -- it

sucks

that Yakko disappeared and isn't here to explain his thinking. Because this: "Every time he posted it looked like he randomly read a few posts and made up reads based on nothing" is pretty much the description of what scum often do; they have to make up reads because they already have all of them.

[saulres]

That's really why I was thinking of it dragging out -- because I've been thinking about the interactions with MoP ever since yesterday began in game, and that's a long time... I realize it doesn't seem that way to you because you're fresh to the game. I've just been obsessing about it for

far

too long...

[snscompt1]

You can fuck right off.

ugh i'm crazy against personal attacks so i've given bulge a stern talking to

sorry house

What is with the hostility here?

wwe're like good cop bad cop but bad cop was too bad for good cops likings z

UNVOTE: House

Sorry for the harshness. Wasn't meant to be a personal attack by any means, sorry if it came across that way. Anyway, you can be town for your recent posting.

Thinking shos could be some sort of Jester-ish role. If not, he needs to get his head out of his ass and play. But I don't think it would be safe to lynch him today. Good vig-shot, though.

@McMenno, what do you think of House's 47 (and, subsequently, saul's 63)?

Also, just to clarify, the "good cop, bad cop" thing Bins was talking about is just an incidental difference in playstyles. This isn't a gimmick account. Basically, it should be pretty obvious which one of us is posting.

The only townish thing I can see is him apologizing and trying to put aside being aggressive to try and work with House. He explained that he wasn't doing it on purpose but rather just how he is. He seems sincere. However, that's the problem with Hydras. He did something wrong and his other head caught it and corrected it. So it's hard to tell what Bugle was really thinking compared to what bins told him to say.

That is literally the only thing I can possibly see MoP being town for. The rest was pointless.

[snscompt1]

I've knew what you meant by Taly being obtuse. Now that I know he's scum, I can only assume it was done on purpose. Why? To cause confusion. Unfortunately, as I've stated, I see things that you won't because I KNOW Taly is scum. You don't.

the description of what scum often do

I would like to change this to "sometimes". However, you're right, I didn't view it like that. I know Yakko was town, so I only assumed that he was just giving a half assed effort because he was lazy and not committed. Coming from your view though, I can see how it could be scummy.

[saulres]

I'll tell you something else that's not going to help. When I played Animal Rescue, I was sure that KK was the last non-town, but I let him talk me out of it in LyLo and town lost because of that. I still bear that scar until today and I don't want it to happen again. Yesterday I had my pecking order. From town to scum it was Taly, Yakko, House. (Yes, House, I thought you were scum because of several things I can go into post-game, and scum made a big mistake killing you last night because I can't see any scenario where I

wouldn't

have voted you and given them the win.) So sns, if you're town, you're not only fighting what Yakko set you up with, you're fighting something you can't control at all.

I really wish I were killed last night. I still can't figure out why I wasn't.

No worries about me hammering today, I'm in a weird place in my head (not game-related) and I'm not going to end the game when I'm feeling this way.

[snscompt1]

So sns, if you're town, you're not only fighting what Yakko set you up with, you're fighting something you can't control at all.

That makes me feel a bit better if we end up voting me. If you do, no hard feelings, it's just a game. You win some, you lose some, you make mistakes. I've made my fair share.

Thanks for discussing. I'd like to see how Taly replies to all this.

[saulres]

Why the fuck would I target you to see my role.

I really don't understand why you picked him to see the role, instead of me. Can you explain your thinking there?

[Taly]

OK, came back to a bunch of walls.

working on a reply

[Taly]

Also, if I were scum.

Why the fuck would I target you to see my role.

Then try to get you lynched in lylo afterwards?

Why would you target me at all? That's one of the reasons I was confused. You're saying I'm scum and plan to vote me the next day. Why didn't you target Saul? As scum you'd want to target Saul to get him to vote me, and town!you would think the same way. So asking me why you did what you did is redundant as I'm not you and can see no clear reason why you did.

I never was 100% confident in my scumread on you in D3, that's why I was consenting with a No Lynch.

I also said in D3, I was going to target you or Saul, of course.

I was also never 100% confident in my townread on Saul.

Saul already sent me what he thought of the current players through his

"BBmolla's Game of Cards"

(yeah, how the picture will be referenced)

I wanted to see how you, Sns, would react to me sending you my Role PM confirmation, since my gut already told me that Saul was thinking I'm town over you.

You come in D4, verifying I sent you my PM. You also raised the idea that my role was possibly what I WANTED other people to hear.

"Nosy Neighbor" <<< Do you see an exact flavor role like this? It's created and DESGINED to give the players ROLE, not what the player wants others to think their role is.

I couldn't have made up a role myself if it wasn't already real or given to me(Otherwise, it wouldn't have been truthful solely on mechanics). This game is MEANT to be full of new-roles. Do you really think I'm pulling random roles and abilities out of my ass?

I sent you to the PM for a reaction - you tried to use my role against me. Which is only what I might think scum would do. Why?

In lylo and in this entire game:

Scum wants to mislynch town. There's no other way for them to win.
Town wants to figure shit out. So that they can win.

House believed me as my claim was truthful, because he was town - realizing it was helpful information.

You killed House so I would supposedly have "no leverage" when you tried to misrep and kill me. Since... He supposedly already "caught" you. Whereas I, was trying to see how truthful you were.

Here you are, using the information I've given you, against me.

Why are you saying what I "SHOULD" be doing if I were scum and town?

You obviously don't know the mindset of a town right now because your play is conducive to a scums wincon.

I didn't target to corner you, I targeted to see if I could reveal you; which - it worked. Because Saul never hammered you the instant I voted you. Which is confirmedtown - Why?

Town doesn't hammer people right off the back in lylo, scum does that only when they know town can die.

I know I'm town. Saul is closest to conf-town right now.

Then that leaves you. Scum.

I'm not going to continue to rebuke your misrepping of my arguments, you're no longer my concern. I know you're scum, and frankly - if you PAID ATTENTION to my posts, you wouldn't need to argue with them as you are now.

Thank you for responding and not just hammering. I feel like I can work with you.

Cute, so no matter what I say to sway you to believe differently - you're just going to try to make short retorts without trying to come to a resolution other than getting me mislynched to conceal your win.

[Taly]

Plus, he killed House. House was ON his slots ass last dayphase - do you really think scum would pass up an opportunity to get an assured-vote of themselves in lylo?

I'm not faking or lying about anything.

I checked Houses posts from yesterday and he barely posted. He more or less said "yakko is scum by PoE". That's all. He never made a case despite how much you tried to get him to do it for you.

You say you're not faking or lying. If you were actually town, you wouldn't need to say that because you know you arent. It seems like you're moreso trying to convince yourself that you're not scum compared to Saul.

Sorry Sns, if I had a case on someone I would have fucking dished one out, feel free to think of yourself as that special, though.

Also, what the FUCK gave YOU the IDEA - that I was trying to convince YOU that I was SCUM OVER SAUL?

Have you been reading? I'm certain you're scum, why would I need to convince you of anything?

House was a Rolestopper. He could potentially cause scum to not make a kill. You needed that gone. In addition, he already confirmed your role and supported you because of that role. Now you kill him before he changes his mind so you can say "House said I was town and knew my role" even though he's dead.

Sorry Sns, but did you read House at all?

Taly, I'm going to ask you to tell shos what role you are tonight in order to demonstrate your ability directly to him.

I still have my doubts about him and want to see his reaction to your role.

That is where I directed Taly to target shos so I could roleblock him because I thought the last scum was one of him or Yakko.

House ROLESTOPPED ME. My role and abilities were completely ineffective.

But even then, Shos got killed.

That leaves either Yakko or Saul to kill shos. I'm pretty sure Yakko (you) killed Shos.

Because shos was suspecting Yakko.

[Taly]

664

I'm pretty busy and sometimes a flake, even when I try not to. I'm working on it, Mafia is mentally and time-consuming at times.

Me not always intuned with everything said in a game or everything involved is town-tell from me at times, mostly due to honesty.

I'm a lot more focused and refined when I'm scum, as you may have seen in my SK-game with House in it.

For confirmation, there is a game where it got me mislynched in D1. It's currently on-going, but you can look at my wiki and see it - it's updated to it saying my status is:

"Sadly Dead" >>> There's only 2 options.