Mini 1653: A Game of Pokes - game over

[havingfitz]

WRT FA post 1045 - I would agree with you that viking and random are not buddies. They coooould potentially both be town but I would bet the farm they aren't both scum. If one of them turns out to be today's lynch as is most likely the case, and flips scum, I would consider the other one town.

As for that belief inferring I should be vehemently defending viking....I don't defend people I do not know are town. If I knew for a fact he was...I would, but I do not. And while his ISO did not scream town to me...it didn't scream scum either.
Inverse to that train of thought...I have inadvertently been advocating against a viking lynch up to this point by virtue of my continued pushes towards random.

WRT wicked post 1046 -

- What is there to like about FA's post?
- Why, as town, would I prefer a replacement to a lynch over someone I believe to be scum?
- Would a replacement absolve the slot of all my suspicions towards it? I think not.

Still plan on summarizing my suspicions towards random (hopefully in the next few hours).

[FA_Q2]

Point taken.

That does make sense.

[massive]

I don't see Formerfish letting his team kill Slandaar N1 after the rumble Slandaar and Riblet had D1.

Is that because you know FF's metaor because you wouldn't have done so yourself?

I don't play meta. It's more about the Riblet v Slandaar fight from D1 -- I don't think if you have a scum in that fight, that you want to prove one half of that fight is town.

[Formerfish]

Rando why am I scum here? Is it because I'm putting pressure on you? I tend to do that with people I think are scum. Maybe you meant to post why I am scum but forgot to hit submit.

[Formerfish]

Fitz, why no interest in FF for now?

Massive what conclusion do you reach with Aris being the one to push hardest for handcuffing?

Honestly, this rubs me wrong.
It looks like he saw an opportunity to shift the focus off of Viking and jumped on it, even though I was definitely not the one pushing hardest for it.
I really just wanted acknowledgement either way.

Not saying for sure scummates, but the tone of that plus a scumviking flip would be a decent place to start tomorrow.

Won't hammer now, but happy to at some point.

... seriously? Massive comes out and says that he was wrong, that it wasn't viking pushing it in the context he was thinking but you. And I'm scummy for asking if his conclusion changed with the additional information? Get the fuck out of here.

[Wickedestjr]

- What is there to like about FA's post?
- Why, as town, would I prefer a replacement to a lynch over someone I believe to be scum?

- Even if you acknowledge that viking and random are most likely not partners, I still think your read on viking is strange given how much you have pushed for a random lynch. How likely is it that random is scum?
- Well it seems that most of your case against random revolves around his lack of contribution/interest in the game. random hasn't given us much information to work with, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want a replacement. It might not change your mind but it could at least strengthen the scum read that you already had. If town, a replacement could also yield a scum hunter that puts more effort in.

[massive]

Just for clarity's sake.

Aristophanes is the one who suggests Randomidget vig Kop. It's not scummy as it's presented as "Oka and Kop are both sketchy, Random should vig whoever we don't lynch."

Vikingfan is the one who pushes the plan and continuously asks who Random is going to vig.

Vikingfan is also the one who miscredits the plan, so that's something to keep in mind.

[Aristophanes]

Fitz, why no interest in FF for now?

Massive what conclusion do you reach with Aris being the one to push hardest for handcuffing?

Honestly, this rubs me wrong.
It looks like he saw an opportunity to shift the focus off of Viking and jumped on it, even though I was definitely not the one pushing hardest for it.
I really just wanted acknowledgement either way.

Not saying for sure scummates, but the tone of that plus a scumviking flip would be a decent place to start tomorrow.

Won't hammer now, but happy to at some point.

... seriously? Massive comes out and says that he was wrong, that it wasn't viking pushing it in the context he was thinking but you. And I'm scummy for asking if his conclusion changed with the additional information? Get the fuck out of here.

I appear to be guilty of missing the context here.
Will keep an eye on you, but I see what you're saying.

I don't see Formerfish letting his team kill Slandaar N1 after the rumble Slandaar and Riblet had D1.

Is that because you know FF's metaor because you wouldn't have done so yourself?

I don't play meta. It's more about the Riblet v Slandaar fight from D1 -- I don't think if you have a scum in that fight, that you want to prove one half of that fight is town.

I suppose not.
Wouldn't he the first time I've seen something of the sort though, and having replaced the spot, not the one arguing it himself, I could still believe it.

[Randomnamechange]

Rando why am I scum here? Is it because I'm putting pressure on you? I tend to do that with people I think are scum. Maybe you meant to post why I am scum but forgot to hit submit.

Ok. I messed that up. I think rhe scum team is probs Viking and fa then ff? As you are mostly PoE

[massive]

I don't play meta. It's more about the Riblet v Slandaar fight from D1 -- I don't think if you have a scum in that fight, that you want to prove one half of that fight is town.

I suppose not.
Wouldn't he the first time I've seen something of the sort though, and having replaced the spot, not the one arguing it himself, I could still believe it.

Yeah, I don't know. I went back and re-read it and Slandaar was still pushing to lynch the slot, even after Formerfish replaced in. Slandaar is a notorious tunneller and it IS possible that scum killed him to let scum-Formerfish have some time to come into the game. ... either way, it's not something that needs to be sorted today, I don't think.

---

The only thing my re-read has really done for me is make me wonder how on earth Kop is still around.

[massive]

Vote Count 3.4

vikingfan(4): Kop, randomidget, wickedestjr, FA_Q2
Not voting: Aristophanes, vikingfan, Formerfish, havingfitz, massive
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

I'm also a little concerned that NO counterwagon has popped up at all. No one is even SUGGESTING lynching anyone but viking.

[Aristophanes]

Vote Count 3.4

vikingfan(4): Kop, randomidget, wickedestjr, FA_Q2
Not voting: Aristophanes, vikingfan, Formerfish, havingfitz, massive
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

I'm also a little concerned that NO counterwagon has popped up at all. No one is even SUGGESTING lynching anyone but viking.

That is odd, you're right.
But what does it mean!

[Formerfish]

It could mean one of four things.

1. Wagon on town driven by scum.
2. Wagon on scum driven by bussing scum.
3. Wagon on scum being led by town.
4. Wagon on town driven by town.

Unless that post wasn't sarcasm, then I'll change my answer.

[havingfitz]

OK...sorry for the delay....lots of RL going on. Though it's not like I see a lot of other people doing similar efforts. But I digress.

Here is a summary of what I have found suspect wrt randomidget's play up to this point.

D1

- My initial D1 suspicions. Unusual to see someone anointing others town so early in a game (i.e. after 1 post!). It came across as buddying imo. WTH knows someone else is town after 1 post!?

General suspicion....he has been active lurkish IMO. He has been slow to respond to the questions he has chosen to respond to and his responses for the most part have been lacking. Ex his reason/s for voting massive D1. It's hard to keep making shit up when you are scum.

Later in D1 he urges people to vote who they strongly want lynched and follows this up shortly with a revote on viking. I.e. he strongly wants viking lynched. He then joins late on the D1 Oka wagon...and begins D2 with an immediate (shortlived) vote on viking. This begs the question why no "vig shot" N1 against someone you strongly wanted lynched both D1 and to start D2. This doesn't jive with random's post 1006.

Please read my post 289.

This is hypocrisy based on this. I.e. finding fault in others for what you yourself are doing.

Please read my post 399.

D2

Another stellar vote/explanation from random..

Another stellar vote/explanation from random..

Please read my post 779.

WTF?.

D3

So D3 arrives and a second shot has not occurred. random is pissed. Vig claim is not confirmed.

random insinuates that Saul was killed because he was on the right track.. This despite the fact Saul had been replaced almost a week earlier and was not the NK posted by the mod.

Please read my post 913 for an earlier summary of randomidget suspicions and post 919 for even more summary.

In post 920 random repeatedly refers to the NK as being Saul (not EPM) and also mentions he wasn't 100% sure viking was scum. This seems inconsistent with earlier (and subsequent comments regarding viking. And the continued references to Saul strike me as odd.
Scum love NK speculation since they control most NKs. random doing a good bit of that D3.

Please read my post 961 for expounded on thoughts regarding random's repeated references to a Saul nk.

random's post 963 comments regarding his Saul / EPM confusion make no sense. What Saul was doing should not have mattered to scum because Saul was no longer in the game. EPM's opinions were all that mattered and he had not made them clear yet. How is this scummy? Well...assuming random is scum....he had a town read on Saul and EPM was an unknown factor. Getting rid of proposed town reads is more of interest to scum then getting rid of proposed scum reads.


post 1038 doesn't jive with post 898. Why the back and forth?

********************************************

There it is. Not as summarized as I had intended but essentially all of my suspicions laid out.

I still prefer random's lynch over any others.

VOTE: randomidgit

[Randomnamechange]

So fitz suggests a counter-wagon after massive criticizes rhe lack of inr. Interesting.

[havingfitz]

Riiiiight. Aside from the fact I've been on you the entire game and had promised a post on you.

[vikingfan]

Mod, any chance we can get an extension to the deadline while we wait for a replacement for Kop? I'd rather not be lynched without a full game.

For me, I find it very interesting that there is absolutely no counterwagon. Nobody has even TRIED going anywhere other than me (other than me and occasional other people going for idget). This, IMO, is not good for town because when I turn up town, vote count analysis will do absolutely nothing, just like day 1. Now, obviously, you guys don't know that, but even from a neutral point of view, this is still a bad thing because whether you think I will turn up scum or town, the fact that everyone was on my wagon won't do much to actually tell you who scum is. If you believe I'm scum, then scum are obviously bussing me to try and blend in with the crowd, and if you believe I'll turn up town, then you're in lylo with 3 days of vote counts and precious little information to be gotten out of them.

ANd I don't see how my wanting a replacement for rando is scummy when rando had basically disappeared. It's always better playing with a full game, especially as town. fitz blatantly misreading my post doesn't sit well with me.

[vikingfan]

I don't play meta. It's more about the Riblet v Slandaar fight from D1 -- I don't think if you have a scum in that fight, that you want to prove one half of that fight is town.

I suppose not.
Wouldn't he the first time I've seen something of the sort though, and having replaced the spot, not the one arguing it himself, I could still believe it.

Yeah, I don't know. I went back and re-read it and Slandaar was still pushing to lynch the slot, even after Formerfish replaced in. Slandaar is a notorious tunneller and it IS possible that scum killed him to let scum-Formerfish have some time to come into the game. ... either way, it's not something that needs to be sorted today, I don't think.

---

The only thing my re-read has really done for me is make me wonder how on earth Kop is still around.

Kop's around because a wagon hasn't built up enough to lynch him. he was prime material yesterday and we were going to have random shoot him to eliminate a scum target but that didn't happen, rando claimed he went for me instead and made up a case I was scum off that and people really haven't looked at Kop since. I'd be all for a Kop wagon given his and Kelbris's play but it's hard lynching an empty slot right now, otherwise i'd be all over it.

[Iknal]

Vote Count 3.5

vikingfan(4): Kop, randomidget, wickedestjr, FA_Q2
randomidget(1): havingfitz
Not voting: Aristophanes, vikingfan, Formerfish, massive
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 26/05/2015 1900 UTC +10
(expired on 2015-05-26 19:00:00)

Extended 3 days.

Searching for a replacement for Kop.

[Aristophanes]

(Either that or someone can hammer and give Iknal the night to find someone, but whatevs. More discussion is good and stuff)

And yes, 1061 was sarcasm.

So fitz suggests a counter-wagon after massive criticizes rhe lack of inr. Interesting.

You're not playing stupid again, are you?

Viking, I too would be okay with a Kop lynch, but as you say, perhaps that is better for another day?
I know we are getting close to losing this and I don't like it, but what can we do when it seems everyone has placated and is just cool to lynch whoever the wagon is on?

[vikingfan]

(Either that or someone can hammer and give Iknal the night to find someone, but whatevs. More discussion is good and stuff)

And yes, 1061 was sarcasm.

So fitz suggests a counter-wagon after massive criticizes rhe lack of inr. Interesting.

You're not playing stupid again, are you?

Viking, I too would be okay with a Kop lynch, but as you say, perhaps that is better for another day?
I know we are getting close to losing this and I don't like it, but what can we do when it seems everyone has placated and is just cool to lynch whoever the wagon is on?

The other way we could go is just to lynch the slot given all the scummy behavior that's happened around it but i don't like doing it when the original players are no longer around to defend themselves and the new player will be stuck defending stuff he didn't do. The trouble is, the slot is still scummy as heck and at least 3 of us are willing to go after it.

Here's the thing i find interesting. If I was really scum, you'd expect to see scum out there defending me given the state of the game and that's not happening. Everyone is blending in though attacking and voting me (and if they're not voting me, they've indicated they're happy to lynch me). This as compared to days one and two where there were heavy wagons on different people. When the scum haven't yet lost a member, do you really think they're going to start off day 3 by bussing a fellow scum member without even trying to raise a counterwagon? Or do you think they're going to latch onto the easiest scum target possible? I think we all know the answer to that which is why I'm glad we have an extension.

[massive]

Viking, I too would be okay with a Kop lynch, but as you say, perhaps that is better for another day?

What other day do you think would be a good one to lynch Kop on?

I know we are getting close to losing this and I don't like it, but what can we do when it seems everyone has placated and is just cool to lynch whoever the wagon is on?

^^ Scumposting.

To anyone else who feels like they're just floating along, happy to lynch whoever the wagon is on: if you have someone else that you would like to push as a viable candidate, how about giving a case on them and trying to change people's minds?

When the scum haven't yet lost a member, do you really think they're going to start off day 3 by bussing a fellow scum member without even trying to raise a counterwagon? Or do you think they're going to latch onto the easiest scum target possible?

Why do you think that you are the "easiest scum target possible"?

I'm V/LA through the next week but will be phoneposting a bunch.

[FA_Q2]

Vote Count 3.4

vikingfan(4): Kop, randomidget, wickedestjr, FA_Q2
Not voting: Aristophanes, vikingfan, Formerfish, havingfitz, massive
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

I'm also a little concerned that NO counterwagon has popped up at all. No one is even SUGGESTING lynching anyone but viking.

That really is not true.

Random was a counter for awhile and there have been some other votes. I was scum reading Fitz for awhile for one. None of them really gained any steam though. It is interesting though because I would have expected scum to push a lot harder on random than it seem they are doing if viking really was scum.

[Formerfish]

I'll be here today or tomorrow.

[FA_Q2]

What is the new deadline?

There does not seem to be any action here at all and we might well miss it at this rate.