Newbie 1608: Snow Cones (Game Over)

[Keyser Söze]

@Rosen: "How'd Enomis take the words out of your mouth about Bulba when his post 31 was about Reubus?"

Sorry, will try to explain as clearly as possible:

Enomis said "How do you present somebody as scum and convince everyone to follow your vote?"

I viewed Bulbs' earlier post as doing this: "Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees."

Bulb presented a simple opinion, insinuating your intro was fake. He then invited anyone to agree - I viewed it as 'laying the foundation' for a vote on you.

[Keyser Söze]

I like Bulbs' defence.

He could have said I was talking s##t and thrown a vote on me, but he explained each point clearly and calmly. He wasn't afraid of me flagging his post. Idk if anyone else agrees.

Zoom in. "

Idk if anyone else agrees.

"
Is this post snark or sincere? It looks set up so you could claim it's either, so how about you clarify, Keyser? Post 65 has more snark-shielding.

Excellent understanding Rosen.
It was a "snark" fest.
I will use [] next time.

It sounds like Enomis had a problem with me "town-reading" Bulbazoorus

[Reubus Swagrid]

Currently I'm looking at:
- enomis' third vote on Reubus Swagrid
- Bulbazoor's "Idk if anyone else agrees" comment

Well here's my thoughts;

His third vote on me is interesting, he votes me for weak reasons but who can blame him? We are only 3 pages in and our other 2 SE players and a few others in general haven't posted very much. While he may be creating pressure on me that could be for a scum or town related motive, for now I can't really say which.

Bulbazoor's comment can be one of two things, it could be a noobtell because I personally remember posting something like this in my first game as a VT, purely because I wanted people to back what I was saying and I felt as though I needed the support of others to make a good case on someone, or it could be him looking for approval as scum. Judging from his last few posts I get a new townie vibe from him.

Ill anwer all your concerns with me.

I would like to start out with reu and that "idk" comment. By that comment I just wanted to see everyone elses foses. Im not following the crowd, as you see in votes. Reu, why is it you are looking so much into me and enomis and are not even looking at the other players.

I have only made 3 posts, there isn't much actual content to focus on this early in the game especially given our circumstances I'm hardly looking into anyone until now and once again

so much

3 posts and only 1 lightly related to you and one directed at enomis

[Reubus Swagrid]

@Fragg, is there a reason why you sound like a mafia newb in posts 39/43, but then a seasoned scumhunting pro by post 51?

I had to look back if you were the same person quick learner eh?

It's almost as if you're worried

[Reubus Swagrid]

Okay to be frank I'm thinking that Keyser is acting pretty scummy here, so I'll get this out of the way.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Keyser

To start off he was the only one to let people know what his playing style was; not something anyone else did and kind of strikes me as odd. Then he votes Reubus for conforming, only to turn around and say that he himself is guilty of it? Interesting.
Post 34 also piqued my interest, but that may be just me.
I think all of his arguments are really weak and he seems like he's latching onto everything that could look scummy, in the hopes that it may look scummy to the rest of the town, too.

@enomis IC guy: in 31 are you saying that the alignment indicative argument itself is scummy?

Hypocrisy also has connotations with being scummy? I'm not saying that it can't come from scum but what makes you think that it is coming from scum? What in particular piqued your interest about #34? Or do you explain and link that with your conclusion as to why he's scum?

This isn't the most solid read for someone who is "pretty scummy"

[Keyser Söze]

@mod

Vote count please.

Any news on mantis or miteymouse?

[superbowl9]

In response to post 68,

I can see where you're coming from with the first part.

Yep I pretty much agreed with the IC on that one, we share an opinion. Woohoo.

I'm not telling you to not attack someone, I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious your post attacks frag, which is kind of hypocritical in a post that says talking shit is bad.

How would you know that it's a classic if it's you're first game? Admit it, you're not a newb .

"Mine is cookie dough ice cream served on a hot waffle. Perfection.
Have any of you played with eachother before?"
"Please keep your fluff off this thread please"

Just because you can't get through a few words without falling asleep doesn't mean the speaker's the problem. I didn't think I'd have to tell anyone this, but clearly you think that a notification of when you can expect a post is somehow a bad thing, so I felt the need to explain that not everyone can sit on the thread and spam all day. If you think I'm posting too much fluff, lynch me or replace out, because it's certainly not looking that way to me.

I believe I've already stated that I don't want to break the rules, despite your encouragement for me to do so (oh hey look another contradiction). It wasn't that important anyways, so just disregard it. It'd definitely be a violation of the rules if I brought it up, nor is it a very concrete argument. I retract whatever I said about it earlier.

@enomis is post 31 you said reubus' defense looked a bit scummy to you. Were you saying that an argumentation that something isn't alignment indicative itself is scummy or the way/context in which he implemented the argument was scummy?

I think 74 is Keyser's worst yet. The way he phrases this - "It was quite clear I was being sarcastic. Idk if anyone else agrees. I was waiting for someone to naively bite on that... " makes him sound like a dick, because even though it was "quite clear" he was being sarcastic it's a mystery as to who he was attacking. Rosen said it best, " It looks set up so you could claim it's either."

@Reubus: Good point, let me explain. I think the hypocrisy of Keyser undermines his arguments and shows how shaky his opinions are, and I think scum are more likely to simply turn around on their arguments, since they're trying to make things they know aren't scumtells into scumtells. Thus they don't really know which arguments they make sound sound to the town or not, and thus try to get lot of arguments out and latch onto the ones that people agree with and turn back on the ones people don't agree with. That's exactly what keyser's been doing; making relatively safe prods at others without actually voting. Hope that helps.

"I don't care about votes really" -Keyser
Let's get this wagon moving then, people.

[MiteyMouse]

Hey everyone. Sorry about last night. I'going to get a post in while I eat.


I have played with Reubus and everyone else is new to me I think.

34 Keyser said something about a relaxed Townie not being so irritable (paraphrasing). I'm not sure anyone can be relaxed right now. And I would think the Scum are more relaxed than Town. They have more information than the rest of us do so, this stage would be easier for them. The other thing to note is that the majority of the players in here are newer so fear of being lynched will still be there. Even if they know that it gets more information. Wait, then in 54 you say you are scared...is that of votes? If so, wouldn't a relaxed Townie be less scared? See where I'm going with this?

Question: what is everyone's mafia experience? A number of you seem to have a good grasp of the game and I'm urious.

Keyser, I find it interesting that you are looking at Bulb for his ot sure if anyone agrees (paraphrasing) comment but, not at Superbowl for his "but, that's just may be me" comment. Care to explain?

Nice catch with 54. Care to explain Fragg? Nevermind, you did...the problem with posting as you read.

Bulb, you didn't FOS Rosen, you voted her. I don't see a tag for FOS so, you have to just bold it I think.

[Keyser Söze]

"It'd definitely be a violation of the rules if I brought it up, nor is it a very concrete argument. I retract whatever I said about it earlier." - too late, you've said it now. Don't promise something then not deliver. For future reference, don't post anything at all if it is futile/evasive/mis-repping - otherwise you waste my time looking over your mistakes and conjectures.

"Let's get this wagon moving then, people." - this is embarassing. I think you're having a poor game, mate. I might use this as my sig.

Yet more fluff and promises to not rule break. I think a modkill would put you out of your misery, but fortunately for you, I town read you - a townie having a nightmare. Thus, we need you alive.

"making relatively safe prods at others without actually voting." - you haven't been reading the thread. I've already voted, unvoted, and clearly spoken about my scum/town reads (there are only two I have no reads on). I only vote for my lead scum reads. If you want to waste our time rallying up a "wagon" and lynching a townie please continue, but I would love to hear your thoughts on other people at the same time.

[Keyser Söze]

34 Keyser said something about a relaxed Townie not being so irritable (paraphrasing). I'm not sure anyone can be relaxed right now. And I would think the Scum are more relaxed than Town. They have more information than the rest of us do so, this stage would be easier for them. The other thing to note is that the majority of the players in here are newer so fear of being lynched will still be there. Even if they know that it gets more information. Wait, then in 54 you say you are scared...is that of votes? If so, wouldn't a relaxed Townie be less scared? See where I'm going with this?

Hi MiteyMouse, thanks for joining the party
Yes, at the start I found Fragg's response and vote very sensitive (which I originally interpreted as a nervous scum - but since then, through my interactions with him, I believe his reaction was sincere. Town-read now.

Keyser, I find it interesting that you are looking at Bulb for his ot sure if anyone agrees (paraphrasing) comment but, not at Superbowl for his "but, that's just may be me" comment. Care to explain?

Can you re-post/explain this please?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, good point, let's bump this and wait for Bulbazoorus' response:

I fos rosen because of how se seems to ignore my vote on her. She i not even responding to me and the vote. If you are going to do so, please respond. To my vote Rosen. I would like some input from super and mantis also

Hold it! Rewind!

Btw guys. My fos now is

VOTE: Rosen

Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees.

You FOS me because my intro seems forced to you, but now it's because I didn't respond to your vote? You were essentially asking others to agree with you, but I don't see a question for me. Are you sure it doesn't seem forced to you because it put a vote on you?

[MiteyMouse]

On the first point Keysey, fair enough. Reads and how we see things can be very fluid. I just wanted to make sure your contradiction was noted. Null tell really though as, reads and our own in head rules can change

The second point. You were looking at Bulb for his not sure if anyone agrees comment but, in 48 Super says that something in one of your posts piqued his interest and the says something along the lines of that may just be me (paraphrasing). I was wondering if you missed that comment or if it didn't bother you.

[MiteyMouse]

Oh...I forgot to add, Keyser do you have mafia experience?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, the point I was grilling Super on. It sounded like he had something meaty to share about me, which intrigued me, but then he said if he revealed what it was it would be rule-breaking or something. So that came to a disappointing dead end.



"Oh...I forgot to add, Keyser do you have mafia experience?" - yeah, I've been playing since Xmas (probably 10 forum games so far). A few similarities/differences to the mechanics/behaviour, but still the same game.

[Bulbazoor]

I fos rosen because of how se seems to ignore my vote on her. She i not even responding to me and the vote. If you are going to do so, please respond. To my vote Rosen. I would like some input from super and mantis also

Hold it! Rewind!

Btw guys. My fos now is

VOTE: Rosen

Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees.

You FOS me because my intro seems forced to you, but now it's because I didn't respond to your vote? You were essentially asking others to agree with you, but I don't see a question for me. Are you sure it doesn't seem forced to you because it put a vote on you?
---
Keyser 46: How'd Enomis take the words out of your mouth about Bulba when his post 31 was about Reubus?
---

I like Bulbs' defence.

He could have said I was talking s##t and thrown a vote on me, but he explained each point clearly and calmly. He wasn't afraid of me flagging his post. Idk if anyone else agrees.

Zoom in. "

Idk if anyone else agrees.

"
Is this post snark or sincere? It looks set up so you could claim it's either, so how about you clarify, Keyser? Post 65 has more snark-shielding.
---
In response to Keyser's 66: I don't begrudge Super's 47, but his 52 does raise big question marks. Clarify as much as you can, Super. If you're worried about rule breaking, I'm sure you can check in with the mod.
---

Charmander and Bulbasaur, but no Squirtle? I guess I'll take the grass-type.
VOTE: Bulbazoor

My time zone is PST, my posts will usually be in the evening unless I'm having a slow day at work.

Last time I played, RQS was fairly common. Has that fallen out of favor, and if so, why?

Rosen,btw, can i ask you something? Why did you start off by asking about RQS? Were you worried about it affecting you game?

I like RQS, it appeals to my sense of whimsy. I checked around other games and didn't see any, so I thought it was the new board standard.

Rosen look at me. I never changed my reason. I just noticed you were not responding to my vote. That argument is a strawman completely. Did youever see me say " oh this is my reason in that second post? No!
As for the vote on me, it has no influence. The reason I fos you is because so far you and reu are the scummiest to me. I may be wrong. But, can you atleast see things from my Pov?

[Bulbazoor]

Enomis 37 and 69: Twice you've asked us to say you're scum. Is there a guilty conscience at play?

There she goes agin. Asking little useless questions. Saying " am i scum to you" and being scum are two different things.

[Bulbazoor]

I coukd clear myself if I wanted to.

[Fraggernaut]

My experience in Mafia is very minimum. I've played one game of video Mafia, & the terms are different.

I coukd clear myself if I wanted to.

Bulb was that a soft?

[Bulbazoor]

My experience in Mafia is very minimum. I've played one game of video Mafia, & the terms are different.

I coukd clear myself if I wanted to.

Bulb was that a soft?

Well, please hit me if you want to. Spank me please.

[Bulbazoor]

No soft btw.

[Bulbazoor]

I really feel a vote count can help us at this stage. My rosen vote will not be changing as she still hasnt gotten that scum vibe off my back and i feel she still isnt defending agains my position. All she says is " oh his reason changed." I never changed reason and I never said anything to indicate i did. Rosen seems to not understand how as time passes, you notice things about their posts that werent there since the beginning. As they post new things, their style changes. You see the different style in their play besides the useless rvs at the beginning of play.

I dont see why everyone is on me because of one sentence. I suggest you start reading my other lines also.

[Keyser Söze]

My experience in Mafia is very minimum. I've played one game of video Mafia, & the terms are different.

Fraggs, evening. Would you agree with this scenario:

I realise your vote is on me right now... but imagine that I'm "town" for one moment
I believe there are only two votes on me at the moment, you and Super (two townies I trust for now).
Would you agree that your two votes on me, makes it

unlikely

that both of you are the two mafia?
It's either one of you are, or none.
i.e I believe it would be foolish for the 2 mafia to wagon the same person. It would either be 1 or none.
Agree?
[Maybe something to look at later if I'm NK'd/lynched]

I coukd clear myself if I wanted to.

Bulb was that a soft?

Yes, a roleclaim was not needed this early under no pressure

MOD

, where are you? - vote count please.
PRAYING

MANTIS

, where are you? - please contribute.

[superbowl9]

"It'd definitely be a violation of the rules if I brought it up, nor is it a very concrete argument. I retract whatever I said about it earlier." - too late, you've said it now. Don't promise something then not deliver. For future reference, don't post anything at all if it is futile/evasive/mis-repping - otherwise you waste my time looking over your mistakes and conjectures.

I don't recall promising anything, and here's some things you can do to not waste your time: Take my word that what I was saying didn't matter, or vote me. I'm not going to say anything else about this, as I've already retracted my statement.

Yet more fluff and promises to not rule break. I think a modkill would put you out of your misery, but fortunately for you, I town read you - a townie having a nightmare. Thus, we need you alive.

I can't say the same for you. What's with these fluff accusations? I haven't said anything that's not an argument or of substance or trying to make some point for a while now. What's the reasoning behind your read btw?

"making relatively safe prods at others without actually voting." - you haven't been reading the thread. I've already voted, unvoted, and clearly spoken about my scum/town reads (there are only two I have no reads on). I only vote for my lead scum reads. If you want to waste our time rallying up a "wagon" and lynching a townie please continue, but I would love to hear your thoughts on other people at the same time.

True, you were the first one to make a serious vote, but iirc the keyser/reubus timeline went something like this: you voted him for some trashy, hypocritical reason (one line of "argumentation" and a couple denouncing your reasoning), then didn't talk about him at all and then unvoted him. That's anything but a solid vote. I'd also like a reads list from you (plus reasoning if it's not too much to ask), as when I went back through your iso for reads I found a lot of "soft" reads, I guess you'd call them, because you didn't actually come out and say that this person was scum or that person was town. I've actually been kind of tunneling you, because you post so much that i've got my hands full responding to everything you've been bringing up about me.

[Keyser Söze]

"I'm not going to say anything else about this, as I've already retracted my statement." - as long as you don't delete the original post! I forgive you.

"What's the reasoning behind your read btw?" - certainly. I dont think mafia would want to engage in a heated one-on-one like we have. I think scum lies in the camp who have watched me slug it out with Fraggs, then slog it out with you. I can sense how you believe everything I have been doing is scummy, but I've been trying to get reactions from the start from everyone. I hate having null-reads on people.

""soft" reads" - definitely, it's day one. Anyone who charges in saying someone is mafia for definite should be looked at on D1. The moment I have a strong read I will announce it loudly, this will probably come later.

"I've actually been kind of tunneling you, because you post so much that i've got my hands full responding to everything you've been bringing up about me." - keep tunneling though, I'm interested to see who else jumps on. As I posted earlier, both you and Fragganator can't be the two mafia.

Only one or none

.

I currently put enomis in my scum-read camp, for his third vote on Reubus. Enomis hasn't done anything since, supporting his scum-read - he might as well unvote. (Reubus is currently at L-2 I believe).

"I'd also like a reads list from you (plus reasoning if it's not too much to ask)" - yes, I will do this later tonight or tomorrow. I've only interacted with 4 or 5 people. I still don't know who a few are.

[superbowl9]

I figure since I asked keyser for a reads list, mahz well make one of my own. It's only courteous. This post might be a long one though, but if you couldn't tell that's kinda my style.

Keyser: Scummy, I've said a lot about him already and I'm sure there'll be more to come.
Bulbazoor: I can barely make sense of his posts, nor do I have any idea what he's thinking, so I'm gonna have to go with noob-null. I'll look into him more later probably.
Frag: Null-town, majority of what he's said has been pretty logical IMO
Mitey: Null-town, pretty much same as Frag. Also my mafia experience is a couple games on epicmafia and like half a game here. So near none.
Reubus: Null scummish: Something about his posts kind of feels off to me, want to hear more from him.
Rosen: Town. All his posts seem really sincere to me.
Enomis: Ugh IC play is tough to judge. When he answers my question I think I'll be able to make a read on him but I guess null for now.
Mantis: Null

Woah it was kinda short
Oh wait another keyser post

I disagree with 96. I think it's a bit early for thinking about teams, I'd want one pegged scum first or at least some more developed reads. I don't think it's entirely unlikely, especially in a newbie game, that someone could use an odd strategy or make some sort of early gambit. However yes I agree wtf was with that soft post that apparently wasn't a soft? This is what I mean by bulba's play being confusing, not to mention the surplus of spelling and grammar errors.

Ohp one more

The only thing I want to respond to here is the second point, which I think is logical to a degree, but it's really dependent upon the style of the player. Personally I don't think I'd be the talkative scum type (uh oh self meta), but others may very well be this way.