New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[lalaladucks]

Wow. No one believes I'm town. This is dismal.
What are you guys gonna do when I flip town? Because I will.

[dragonspawn]

Wow. No one believes I'm town. This is dismal.
What are you guys gonna do when I flip town? Because I will.

if by chance you flip scum I'll just analyze any nk data and continue scum hunting.

but considering your game play so far I'm not going to lose sleep if I'm wrong.

[Titus]

Can we lynch Ozgin after you're done mislynching Lala for the scumteam? K. Thanks.

[Titus]

*scumteams

[dragonspawn]

How would you know ducks is a mislynch?

[SilverWolf]

Titus-I think la la is likely to be scum and Ozgin is VT/Citizen like he claims.

Tell me why I'm wrong. You don't have to go into detail. Just the basics are enough.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Please prod T S O.

Thanks!!

[Wake1]

Prodding T S O.

[Titus]

How would you know ducks is a mislynch?

Because he's a counter to Ozgin.

[Varsoon]

You do know ducks had a large wagon far before Ozgin ever had one, right?

[Titus]

Titus-I think la la is likely to be scum and Ozgin is VT/Citizen like he claims.

Tell me why I'm wrong. You don't have to go into detail. Just the basics are enough.

Lala hasn't done anything scummy. She's sheeped, sure but that's not scummy.

Ozgin meanwhile has the scummy claim, votes every major wagon and its brother and has massive AtE. He hasn't actually scumhunted at all. His reads are all poor versions of "you suspect me, so you're scum", minus me who he loves painting as bad and off. Hmm... wonder where he got that advice from..

[Titus]

You do know ducks had a large wagon far before Ozgin ever had one, right?

Nah, Lala's died. It restarted later. Doesn't matter the order though. Lala has votes and the second time, they picked up quick. Why? Because there's no other acceptable place for them.

Lala died. Dragon died. Lala starts again. That seems reallly natural...[/sarcasm]

[Cheetory6]

He got the advice from me, right? Is that what we're getting at?

Also, the scumteam that Ozgin is on also knows who the rest of the scum are in the game as well, right?
That's how they and you can be so sure that lala is 100% a mislynch?

[Cheetory6]

I'm gonna ISOdive Ozgin shortly.
Was going to kick up a fuss about Titus's absolutism on his claim being impossible to be coming from town, but I feel like she's the only person who seriously believes that so I'm just going to do my best to ignore my urge to want to fight her on that.

[Titus]

He got the advice from me, right? Is that what we're getting at?

Also, the scumteam that Ozgin is on also knows who the rest of the scum are in the game as well, right?
That's how they and you can be so sure that lala is 100% a mislynch?

No one actually knows 100%. Yet, scum don't want to lynch scum in general. So the minute a decent case gets made against someone scummy, scum run.

Hence why Dragon was wagoned for jackshit, lala is wagoned for struggling, hell the Ozgin and Varsoon wagons were the only ones with meat on their bones.

[Varsoon]

What kind of logic is that?
I think scum would -want- to lynch scum to earn townpoints for it and then during night they'd want to direct double-kills on town PRs.
Ideally. Right?

[Titus]

What kind of logic is that?
I think scum would -want- to lynch scum to earn townpoints for it and then during night they'd want to direct double-kills on town PRs.
Ideally. Right?

In singleball, yes. In multiball no. Crosslynching and killing reduces KPN.

[SilverWolf]

What kind of logic is that?
I think scum would -want- to lynch scum to earn townpoints for it and then during night they'd want to direct double-kills on town PRs.
Ideally. Right?

In singleball, yes. In multiball no. Crosslynching and killing reduces KPN.

What does KPN even stand for?

la la has been giving me scumvibes since I first voted her, I gave her a chance and she hasn't gotten any better

Ozgin seems kind of genuine in his frustration but you are right about his reads being "if you suspect me, you are scum" but la la's doing the same shit. You know that right?

[lalaladucks]

My scumreads do not solely consist of people scum reading me.

[Varsoon]

I think there was only ever two votes on me, one of which was dragonspawn and the other was what was called 'an RVS' vote.
The laladucks and ozgin wagons have been the most consistent wagons the whole game.

P-EDIT:
I've only played a handful of multiball setups. I don't really like them. They usually feel scum-sided to me.
I feel like you've put so much down on Ozgin, Titus. I'm really worried you're both town and scum wants to milk that. :/
What's sideways is that even with a scum-flip from laladucks, you'll still just stay on Ozgin because multiballlll. I don't think you'll be satisfied until Ozgin is dead.
It's not like I don't get it, I just don't agree with it.
:/

[Titus]

@SW, KPN is Kills Per Night. The higher the KPN generally speaking, the better it is for scum, particularly if scums aren't crosskilling each other. Given scums won't vote to lynch each other, I highly doubt they'll kill each other at night.

I absolutely disagree on lalala's reads doing that.

Scum would have genuine frustration at being caught, just as much as town would. The genuineness of emotion is not what to read but the motivation behind the speech.

[Titus]

I think there was only ever two votes on me, one of which was dragonspawn and the other was what was called 'an RVS' vote.
The laladucks and ozgin wagons have been the most consistent wagons the whole game.

P-EDIT:
I've only played a handful of multiball setups. I don't really like them. They usually feel scum-sided to me.
I feel like you've put so much down on Ozgin, Titus. I'm really worried you're both town and scum wants to milk that. :/
What's sideways is that even with a scum-flip from laladucks, you'll still just stay on Ozgin because multiballlll. I don't think you'll be satisfied until Ozgin is dead.
It's not like I don't get it, I just don't agree with it.
:/

I generally tend not to be satisfied until scum flips. And I'm about 99.9 percent certain that Ozgin's scum. So you're right, I won't be satisified until he's dead.

Dragon's spawn's vote is one of the few that had teeth. When he started that, he did it based on your rolefishing which is much more of a case than any on lalala.

[Cheetory6]

I've given it some thought and the biggest issue I have with this entire claim situation, is that the two options for why Ozgin claimed Citizen here are either he's scum, consciously thought "hey maybe I should fakeclaim VT here", checked to make sure the rules in the OP said Citizen and then claimed it OR he, as town, casually slipped up and said what role he has.

So, anyone who isn't completely denying this possibility, tell me why you think it's more likely that scumOzgin made a calculated and planned decision which would be hilariously anti-win condition for him as scum versus just screwing up as town. And I say it's anti-win condition because it literally draws the entire focus of the game onto him for no reason. Yes, he might avoid nightkills by doing this, but he also makes himself lynchbait and PRtargetbait when he wasn't even under all that much scrutiny in the first place when he said it.

Yet, scum don't want to lynch scum in general.

Why?
I've played multiball as scum before. Sure, it might be bad to head a scumlynch because it draws attention, but it isn't bad to be on the wagon for a scumlynch.

Crosslynching and killing reduces KPN.

Other scum can potentially threaten you as much as lynches can. Every game I've played as scum in multiball I'm way more terrified of the idea of being crosskilled by other scumteam than I am by being lynched.

I've seen arguments for Ozgin being scum because he's voting a lot.
I've played games as town where I vote a lot as well. Being survivalistic isn't necessarily scummy either.
Next.

There's the insinuation that his reads on Titus and Bookitty don't make sense.
I think they're fine enough. Titus is being super confident in her read. From what I can tell, Ozgin seems to be expecting scum to be hiding in the background and prodding things along. Bookitty isn't a bad player to be seeing that potentially being the case with. I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion, but I'm able to see where he's coming from on it.

I see him playing in a very tryhardish manner {sorry if that offends you but it's how I perceive it}. His vote on Varsoon and his reasoning for his scumread on Kitz/lalala come across as being more likely as being town trying really hard to find scum, such that the reasoning behind their read is poorly articulated because it's rushed in its anticipation.

The worst feelings I've gotten on Ozgin is that it feels like he's vaguely buddying me for defending him accurately, which I kind of would expect scumOzgin to want to keep people who're defending him decently well in a good light and stay in their good graces.
I think I would expect more doubt from Ozgin on me for defending him like I have been because it honestly probably should look a little off that I'm so against this wagon.
I dislike his sheeping onto the Prolapsedwagon, and I would like him to explain in more detail why he was so okay with getting on board there.
Otherwise though?
Like.
I'm just not feeling it.
At all.
Someone can argue at me if they want.
I should spend some time focusing on some other stuff though because I'm getting bogged down on this too much.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: We've been over this 'rolefishing' accusation. While I can see how people might think I was trying to get a claim from Boon/Dragon, the truth of the matter is far different. It really bugs me when people continue to say 'Oh, Varsoon did this thing!' when I did not. It's not fun. What's even less fun is when you point out that the accusation is built on false pretenses and people still parrot it. That kind of approach to the game makes me want to quit playing. It's not a matter of scum vs town or whatever, it's just a really annoying, dismissive approach to the game in general. It reflects a failure to actually engage with the game, which I'm worried is what is happening in general with your tunnel on Ozgin. I don't see a dialogue happening between you two at all. I don't see engagement. All I see you doing is constantly saying the same dated case you've got on him. The only thing that makes me not completely turn sour over it all is that you and Ozgin both seem to put effort into things other than each other, which is a breath of fresh air.

I agree with Cheetory here; I'm not seeing Ozgin's approach as scum-motivated at all, but, rather, as playstyle approach entirely.
Does that clear him?
No.
But it doesn't make him the scum-of-the-earth that you're wagoning him as, Titus.

[Prolapsed Brain]

Okay.

Disclaimer: I'm in too many games. I don't want to replace out (of any of them), because that's unfair. I will make time for this one. This game is far too active at the moment.


I am not really comfortable with the amount of coaching Titus is giving lala. I am not labelling either with an alignment for it; I'm just not comfortable.

Prolapsed, do you have day talk?

I do not, nor do I have night talk with anyone.

Pigeon poop.
It's in the Setup that scums have Daytalk. This answer makes zero sense.

I can tell you that I read the setup info, and forgot the tidbit that scum have daytalk as it's irrelevant to me, but I don't expect you to believe me. (And for those saying it's very relevant, even to a townie, I will respond that daytalk is rather rare and it's

always

brought up in-thread, so I really wouldn't have to remember.)



I am leaning toward Ozgin as scum, primarily due to sheeping Titus. She's batshit insane, yes, but a lot of the times she's

actually right.

I'll play the odds.


VOTE: Ozgin