Newbie 1592: The Masquerade -- Game Over!

[hayatoBL]

I was about to post things about juckster more for completion's sake, but it's all minor issue. I will only if I need to.

So, I believe you promised to read my other games, Ilhom? What did you find?

And both of you wanted to ISO each other. What did you guys get?

[Ilhom]

Will post in 7 hours, at work

[juckter]

Ilhom, I'm a little confused regarding your reads on pist. Your first posts implied you couldn't tell whether she was town or not, however, your 344 seems to imply you found her more likely to be town, yet you hammered her later that day. Any reason you decided she was a good lynch, or were your reads on her just weak?

[Ilhom]

posting will be delayed until before I go to sleep sometime, RL things etc

[insanity018]

Votecount 4.9 (unchanged)

Not Voting

(3): Ilhom, juckter, hayatoBL

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-30 09:00:00)

[hayatoBL]

Just found something new deserving of attention.

Juckster, your suspicion on Ilhom starts here.

Really? You thought Stab was town? Strange, coming from the main advocate of a Stab lynch pretty much the entirety of yesterday.
FoS: Ilhom

Then Ilhom defended himself where you replied with:

Now, Nero/Futan scumteam still seems unlikely to me based on how their interactions changed from Day 1 to Day 2, so that leaves Ilhom/Futan and Ilhom/Nero, so I believe Ilhom is scum.

Hence, my FoS stands. I'd like to hear from others.

And:

Cool, so I'm now scum because I actually believe Ilhom is scum and I'm not backing off.

And after that post, I see no other post where Illhom explained about him saying Stab is Town. But now on D4, suddenly you:

He suddenly just decided to call Stab likely town after advocating for his lynch pretty much the entire day,

though his explanation for that makes sense.

Which explanation? This is strange, considering after Ilhom explained, you still scum-read him. So, this feels like buddying to me. Clarify?

If you're scum, you probably thought convincing Ilhom, that Xay is scum is much easier than convincing Xay that Ilhom is scum, since you have need to convince Xay that Ilhom was hard-bussing Nero.

I'm sorry, I'm all over the place. I tend to not think things through before I say 'I'm confident X is scum'.

[juckter]

At that point, I was actually finding Xay likelier to be scum than Ilhom, for the exact reason you mention (hard bussing), which confused me as I thought he was scum D3. So I was reevaluating my Ilhom read, as I was wrong on a lot of things D3, and I didn't really know clearly what had happened (I was really busy, hence my lack participation that day, and hadn't got a chance to read it). I wanted to reread to find out whether Ilhom's Stab case was scummy, and assumed it wasn't as I had been wrong on other points before and Ilhom seemed likelier to be town, until I realized hard bussing was not out of the question and reread. (666)

[hayatoBL]

I have mixed feeling with this answer making me want to drop this point entirely. Probably.

We need some response from Ilhom.

[hayatoBL]

Fair warning: in around 24 hours I'm dropping my vote.

If anyone has any last words, now's the time.

[juckter]

Not really right now. I hope Ilhom can post soon.

[Ilhom]

Actually, there is a way you can prove that I'm tunelling you. If you can tell me what scum-tell did I missed while reading juckter. Because if there isn't any that I missed, then I had in fact read you both fairly and thus, proving your accusation false.

Tunneling in the sense that you're just throwing the scum on me because you might think you can get juckter on your side more easily because he said he found me a bit more likely, not that you're ignoring his posts.
Your reaction to me saying that seems pretty towny though. You didn't attempt a me vs you scenario which makes my initial way of thinking it less likely.

[Ilhom]

I feel like you pretty much glossed over my POE on day 2
386


replying to your 697
1. Pit wasn't on Tetaes wagon so that's just wrong

2. Yes, I said pist looked like scared new town, but like I said before, if I was wrong on Stabulous my scared new town read wasn't nearly as strong compared to how productive Xayzeck and juckter were, so she was left in the scum POE.

3. You're right I wasn't, because he was almost complete scum in my eyes except for the possible pistachi0n/Futan team, or Xayzeck/juckter somehow partners with Stab. Those were scenarios in my post.

4. Stabulous's most likely partner in my POE was Nero, and Stabulous suddenly switched onto Nero and wanted to form a speed wagon on him. This made me think I was wrong on Stabulous because I don't see him doing that to his partner in that scenario. So this only left Stabulous and Xayzeck/juckter from my perspective which I was not confident in at all, so going from my POE pistachi0n made the most sense.

I never said Stab had no other partners, I said juckter and Xayzeck just seemed unlikely. I didn't discount the possibility, and they were even listed in the POE so that's just wrong too. And yes, I found it EXTREMELY unlikely Stabulous would suddenly get off of pistachi0n who was pretty much going to die that day to suddenly jump onto his partner and ask for a speed wagon to form. That scum team bussing would have been absolutely nuts to do.

[Ilhom]

Pretty confident Nero is the lynch today.

What makes you confident in D3 which couldn't have made you confident in D2?

Self preservation vote on a person who flipped town, scum as shit defense like I've said before on Stabulous, which at the time I wasn't sure if it was buddying or if Nero was that clueless. The Stab flip made me have to decide between Nero and Futan as scum, and who could possibly be partners with them between Xayzeck and juckter. Futan took Stabulous off of L-1 instead of just sitting on him after he liked his defense, which I saw as towny since Stab obviously flipped town.

Basically, Stab dying in the night to flip town is what made me confident as Nero scum way over Futan, obviously combined with the fact that in day 2 pistachi0n was the best lynch if Stab was town because of my confidence in juckter/Xayzeck town reads, one of which I am wrong on. Nero continued a bad defense against me to where he still tried to misrepresent what I was saying, so I stuck with it and was right.

[Ilhom]

Let me rephrase that question. If there's enough stuff in D2to make you confident that Nero is scum, why isn't it enough to vote for Nero over Pist which you had by POE?

just read this after answering other

There wasn't enough stuff in D2 to make me confident in Nero scum. I know you are asking this because you keep thinking my scared as new town read was definitive and wasn't some weak read to help reinforce my Stab scum read, which is why she is listed as scum in my Stab as town POE.

[Ilhom]

I was about to post things about juckster more for completion's sake, but it's all minor issue. I will only if I need to.

So, I believe you promised to read my other games, Ilhom? What did you find?

And both of you wanted to ISO each other. What did you guys get?

finish posting your analysis and I will tell you like I said before.

[Ilhom]

Ilhom, I'm a little confused regarding your reads on pist. Your first posts implied you couldn't tell whether she was town or not, however, your 344 seems to imply you found her more likely to be town, yet you hammered her later that day. Any reason you decided she was a good lynch, or were your reads on her just weak?

What "first posts"?
Like I said before my scared new town was a weak read which is why she stayed on the scum list for Stabulous town scenario. It was something to slightly help reinforce my Stabulous scum read.

[Ilhom]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

[insanity018]

Votecount 4.10 (unchanged)

Not Voting

(3): Ilhom, juckter, hayatoBL

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-30 09:00:00)

[juckter]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

"I got pissed when juck attacked me after I put so much effort towards looking towny"

Why do you find it scummy to attack someone who is townread? I guess you're suggesting we shouldn't reconsider reads ever and always go against the most scumread fellow because scum never look towny. I guess anyone who was read towny early game could just go ahead and claim scum and they'd still be town in your world. I was also a universal town read on D1 and D2, and now you're attacking me, does that make you caught scum?

[hayatoBL]

I feel like you pretty much glossed over my POE on day 2

I'll admit the quality of my reading is not as good as if I had played from the very beginning.

Spoiler:

1. Pit wasn't on Tetaes wagon so that's just wrong

2. Yes, I said pist looked like scared new town, but like I said before, if I was wrong on Stabulous my scared new town read wasn't nearly as strong compared to how productive Xayzeck and juckter were, so she was left in the scum POE.

3. You're right I wasn't, because he was almost complete scum in my eyes except for the possible pistachi0n/Futan team, or Xayzeck/juckter somehow partners with Stab. Those were scenarios in my post.

4. Stabulous's most likely partner in my POE was Nero, and Stabulous suddenly switched onto Nero and wanted to form a speed wagon on him. This made me think I was wrong on Stabulous because I don't see him doing that to his partner in that scenario. So this only left Stabulous and Xayzeck/juckter from my perspective which I was not confident in at all, so going from my POE pistachi0n made the most sense.

I never said Stab had no other partners, I said juckter and Xayzeck just seemed unlikely. I didn't discount the possibility, and they were even listed in the POE so that's just wrong too. And yes, I found it EXTREMELY unlikely Stabulous would suddenly get off of pistachi0n who was pretty much going to die that day to suddenly jump onto his partner and ask for a speed wagon to form. That scum team bussing would have been absolutely nuts to do.

1. I was wrong....

2. But then it gets confusing: Your weak town read on pist is weaker than a *non-town* read on Nero whom you scum read on D3? See why it's confusing here? Pist is a weaker town read than Xay and juckter, but a town read nevertheless, but a stronger scum-read than one of your scum-read Nero?

3. You see! You voted a weak town read, who is only scum based on PoE over someone who was "almost complete scum in your eyes". And that guy who you let go was a mafia. You do agree my suspicions are justified, right?

4. I'm sorry I don't buy this. I think Nero was the obvious choice, but you let go of him...

[Ilhom]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

"I got pissed when juck attacked me after I put so much effort towards looking towny"

Why do you find it scummy to attack someone who is townread? I guess you're suggesting we shouldn't reconsider reads ever and always go against the most scumread fellow because scum never look towny. I guess anyone who was read towny early game could just go ahead and claim scum and they'd still be town in your world. I was also a universal town read on D1 and D2, and now you're attacking me, does that make you caught scum?

You misread, I said you were universally town read. A person universally town read jumps on me after killing the guy I had suspicions on the day before made me feel uncomfortable. I'm not talking about calling a person who seems towny as scum.

[Ilhom]

Almost complete scum in my eyes in the sense that in either situation of Stabulous being town or scum, there was a

pretty fair

chance that he was scum. I did not have any sort of hard scum read on Nero at all at the time I voted for pistachi0n, therefore he was not "obvious". As I said a while back too, his defense on Stabulous was either possible buddying or he just straight up didn't understand what I was saying. So, I either vote on the person that seems like most likely scum if Stabulous was town (which is something I started to believe as mentioned earlier), or I go on a person that I still felt unsure of at the time.

You keep badgering me about my read when I was just going with my POE. The town read on her was NOT strong enough to get her out of scum POE if Stabulous was town. It was a WEAK read to help reinforce Stabulous as scum in my eyes. I had no scum read on Nero until the next day because I had no reason to, which turned into a hard scum read when he continued misrepresenting and ignoring my posts. I get why you kind of think I "let him go" but I felt confident enough on my POE to vote through that. Obviously I was wrong and that sucks, because juckter/Xayzeck were constant town reads and now I had to reevaluate both of them while looking scummy on the pistachi0n hammer since she was town. This goes back to Stabulous dying in the night and juckter jumping on me at the start of the day, which is what made me feel uncomfortable and still makes me think he is probably the scum over you (combined with your towny reactions previously).

[Ilhom]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

"I got pissed when juck attacked me after I put so much effort towards looking towny"

Why do you find it scummy to attack someone who is townread? I guess you're suggesting we shouldn't reconsider reads ever and always go against the most scumread fellow because scum never look towny. I guess anyone who was read towny early game could just go ahead and claim scum and they'd still be town in your world. I was also a universal town read on D1 and D2, and now you're attacking me, does that make you caught scum?

Also juckter I don't know why you would think I considered myself universally town read, because I most definitely was not.

[Ilhom]

woops that quote

[hayatoBL]

finish posting your analysis and I will tell you like I said before.

This won't be necessary. As much as I would like more content, the case on you is hard to refute. You're just going to waste your time and effort going through my past games, since I have decided who to vote for. And I hate for you to do all that for nothing. It's not worth it. I've read your defense and unfortunately I'm not satisfied.

I won't be sorry if I'm wrong as I've played with all the skills I have and the evidence I can collect. Whichever alignment you are, I hope you'll still be around MS and keep on playing.

VOTE: Ilhom

juckster: feel free to confirm yourself as Town(or as scum).