Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[Drixx]

The roles are def. crazy but the Logic that Ricastle visited me and nothing bad happened to me still stands. I don't recall ARS actually making a cogent case for him being scum. My memory says it's all moonbeams and such.

[Drixx]

EbWoP - That post was copy and pasted and meant for another game. I seriously need to always preview and make sure I'm pasting from notepad into the right place. I'm very sorry and would appreciate it if the mod would just edit that out. It's not at all relevant to this game.

[shos]

So by your logic, every action that scum may take is a killing action?

this is what's implied by you thinking he is town since he targetted you and nothing happened.

[A Royal Saint]

Quit calling me insane then repeating my points

[Drixx]

Well Shos, I was thinking in terms of normalized roles, and none of the things that scum generally get to do were done to me. Him visiting me probably can't be viewed as evidence either way after you helpfully reminded me that roles aren't designed with alignments in mind.

[ika]

one sec i got a pm about something. before game resumes i just want o cahtc up proper and make sure no rules have been broken yet

[ika]

OK so elusive requested replacement and wil be replaced by tere. She is V/LA though

That being said, let me clarify the ambiguity i read up on the first post about the 3p

There are 3 mafia aligned players
There is at least one scum aligned player
There can be anywhere from 0-8 other third parties

[A Royal Saint]

1) Drixx your argument is horribly flawed. Ricastle can be scum if elusive did the NK (or their partner if you do not believe in a scumslip).
2) yes I will continue insisting as I have good reason to. It will make sense upon my lynch and post game.

@shos -- Stop copying my arguments.
@Drixx -- stop saying my logic is moon logic then agreeing with it.

See point 1.

[A Royal Saint]

Welcome tere!!!

[Drixx]

I still don't know what your actual case against Ricastle is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't hinge on the fact that he visited me last night, ergo the whole discussion about whether him visiting me is a good or a bad or a null tell ... has absolutely nothing to do with your arguments or your moon logic.

Perhaps you could, I dunno, actually give me the case like I asked?

[A Royal Saint]

Or we could lynch elusive + Ricastle who are clearly scum together. 87 for elusive might as well have been a scum claim when she hops on a claimed 3P with no explanation at all.

Secondly elusive tried to goad me into pressuring Titus completely unaware I was running a gambit and furthermore seems to have done nothing.

Thirdly ricastle's unwillingness to vote elusive puts them together.

Fourthly Titus dying should be a shock to no one as she was town firmed by me.
Fifth point is Ricastle kept demanding me to quote my role PM several times to try to get me to demonstrate how it townfirmed Titus.

We should be lynching one of these two today but I am more than willing to be lynched in order to prove those two scum.

VOTE: McMenno

Let's ride this train

First post that made me suspect. Scum always want to get rid of 3P it is their goal. Then they only have to worry about one direction instead of two.

My gut is getting bad vibes from the Menno wagon but on the other hand it's a fair point that his role sounds like bullshit and doesn't correlate with the Restless Spirit, which would be a WTF role in its own right. Hm.

Pedit: What do you suggest I do, Flubber? McMenno is the only topic on the table and roughly half the players haven't posted out of RVS.

Note here the cross communication which is interesting.

Okay so why is elusive townier than derangement?

I never said that.

If elusive isn't townier than derangement, why are you not voting her?

This entire chain is what makes me suspect the two are together with flubber or at least flubber was putting them together at the very least. Asking flubber and flubber being nonchalant about it is a HUGE cause for concern. This entire argument feels wrong. SERIOUSLY. Reread it people.

Because I don't repeat myself with new words til you demonstrate you have read the old ones. As this is a case for elusive/tere + Ricastle that you asked for please address it.

[shos]

1) Drixx your argument is horribly flawed. Ricastle can be scum if elusive did the NK (or their partner if you do not believe in a scumslip).
2) yes I will continue insisting as I have good reason to. It will make sense upon my lynch and post game.

@shos -- Stop copying my arguments.
@Drixx -- stop saying my logic is moon logic then agreeing with it.

See point 1.

I am not using your arguments at all. I am just explaining why any night actions this game are irrelevant. If you remember, i think elusive is town. Your arguments *are* insane, I'm not supporting them, lol. Except 1356 iirc.

[shos]

ARS, remind us what your "gambit" was

Abd what woupd be a not-gambit in that situation?

[Wanderer-nl]

@wanderer:
Elusive is probably town, I agree. Your argument that the frustration sorta makes Ric town is faulty though; frustration can come on both sides, and as scum, it's ESPECIALLY frustrating if someone throws a *true shit* argument against you to call you scum. scum caught for the wrong reason -> EXTREME FRUSTRATION.

since we do not know the nature of any third party scum we shouldn't be counting on that and assuming that.

innocent on who?

Ok I can get that about scum but so far I haven't really seen furstration come from scum. Who knows, maybe this is my first.
I'm assuming that because 3rd party

scum

it's a killing role. There are other 3rd parties (at least a survivor) so why explicitly call only one 3rd party scum?
I didn't get a definite innocent (read my post again) but I did like Drixx and went with someone I had a townread on and my result didn't point to a need of change in read so I don't feel the need to out my target just yet. We all saw what happened to Titus..

@Ric (and everyone else curious about my target) for you goes the same I just wrote to shos. (Can't you guys just realize I have a plan and don't want to spell it out before I have something more definite?)

@saint: the thing is, we actually don't know. And your gambit yesterday didn't help in making you look thrustworthy to me. Could you please not vote yourself? Is there anything else you saw from either Ric or elusive that points to them being scum, besides the Flubber-interaction?

I liked Drixx argument on Ric visiting him. But then I also liked shos' argument about the randomized roles/allignments. But as Drixx said; why would Ric confirm a visit if he is scum? But then again, why wouldn't he want the towncred? Right now I'm mostly thinking Ric maybe recruited Drixx and now they're trying to both get towncred? I'm afraid paranoia is hitting.. Would a cult be too bastard for a role-madness game?

[Tere]

Hi folks!

VOTE: UNVOTE

Bear with me until tomorrow. This slot is town, and while I had skimmed last week I've not retained much apart from that there's claims all over the place and I need to take some proper care and do a full fat read through.

I don't believe we are butting up against deadline so hopefully that's OK.

[Wanderer-nl]

Wait aminute..
Drixx, you said you picked someone obvtown to target but that doesn't work with your shos-read in 1447 where you write:

I was scum reading you for a lot of yesterday's day phase. Your co-cooperativeness

today

has swung you considerably into the other column.

[Wanderer-nl]

@mod: could you please update post 0 with all the replacements? It's getting a little hard to remember who replaced whom.

[shos]

@wanderer:
Elusive is probably town, I agree. Your argument that the frustration sorta makes Ric town is faulty though; frustration can come on both sides, and as scum, it's ESPECIALLY frustrating if someone throws a *true shit* argument against you to call you scum. scum caught for the wrong reason -> EXTREME FRUSTRATION.

since we do not know the nature of any third party scum we shouldn't be counting on that and assuming that.

innocent on who?

Ok I can get that about scum but so far I haven't really seen furstration come from scum. Who knows, maybe this is my first.
I'm assuming that because 3rd party

scum

it's a killing role. There are other 3rd parties (at least a survivor) so why explicitly call only one 3rd party scum?
I didn't get a definite innocent (read my post again) but I did like Drixx and went with someone I had a townread on and my result didn't point to a need of change in read so I don't feel the need to out my target just yet. We all saw what happened to Titus..


*snip*
(Can't you guys just realize I have a plan and don't want to spell it out before I have something more definite?)
*snip*

I liked Drixx argument on Ric visiting him. But then I also liked shos' argument about the randomized roles/allignments. But as Drixx said; why would Ric confirm a visit if he is scum? But then again, why wouldn't he want the towncred? Right now I'm mostly thinking Ric maybe recruited Drixx and now they're trying to both get towncred? I'm afraid paranoia is hitting.. Would a cult be too bastard for a role-madness game?

1. First time for everything.
2. all roles have been randomized with alignment apart from ONE. I'm thinking that third party scum is that one, and I'm thinking it is McMenno, but would really rather hunting the team scum first. I believe that the lone scum can NOTwin with the groupscum, because with any role division, scum would be really powerful to have 4/13. I'm thinking the dayvig IS the lone scum; it fits perfectly with the only one nightkill. There probably are other third parties but we shouldn't guess on them. they are probably lyncherstyle stuff, jesters or survivors though, with any mutation ika can think of.

re: your plan: could you link me to the posts where it is relevant? because I've no idea what your thoughts are in the game, you're way underactive compared to other players.

why wouldn't ric confirm the visit if roles/alignments are random? it gives no good info to town.

And cults are not existing in this game.

Wait aminute..
Drixx, you said you picked someone obvtown to target but that doesn't work with your shos-read in 1447 where you write:

I was scum reading you for a lot of yesterday's day phase. Your co-cooperativeness

today

has swung you considerably into the other column.

I was looking at that angle earlier, but I forgot what the role was lol

could anyone makea list of claims?

[Ricastle]

Enough of this nonsense.

I am the vest giver

. There. It should have been quite obvious considering nobody else has fruit.

[Wanderer-nl]

Well that claim opens up new possibilities...
If Drixx was protected by that vest the same night, it's possible that one scum-faction tried to NK Drixx. I remember Drixx' claim very well and I don't get why shos is having trouble remembering because Drixx was very open and clear about it.

The result on my target points to him or her being the dayshooter and I really don't want to reveal who it is in case all the scum have nightkills and the dayshooter is town. And Ric's claim makes that possible again.

[Wanderer-nl]

Just got thinking about that 3rd party scum. I think it makes a lot of sense that that's the one role whose allignment was already set. Assuming mafia has a factional kill aside from the roles they received, it would be very overpowering if roles like SK or vig ended up on mafia. Okay, saying that points to 3rd party scum being the dayshooter because if he isn't that, there is a town vig that could have anded up a scum vig.
About mafia not having a factional kill; that would screw them over if they don't land at least one killing role. So either the dayshooter is scum or there is one mafia-role that was already allignment-set. Getting anxious revealing my target, please discuss fast.

[shos]

THE DAYSHOOTER IS NOT TEAM SCUM DAMNIT

there is absolutely no reason to do that. Probably he is lone scum.

What is a vest givee? You make people BP?

And again can anyone list the claims?

[Drixx]

Anyone who pretends that reads go from extreme to extreme in a split second (without investigative results) is lying to you. For much of yesterday's day phase I had a gut scumread on shos. It moved over the latter part of the day into me thinking he might just be aggressive town. He

looked

obvtown, but there were things that made me question. So I sent a very elaborate item to him and decided that a town shos would be completely open and helpful to me so I could work out some of the limits to a role that isn't strictly bounded. I don't believe that scum would want to help me figure out how to use my role optimally, therefore the things that made me think shos was town yesterday are reinforced, swinging the read strongly to town. I'm not particularly sure why this wasn't already obvious?

Also, it should be clear why I suggested that I had been visited more than once. No reason to out Ricastle as someone who gave me a bulletproof vest and paint a target on him. I really don't think there was reasonable pressure on him so I wish he had kept that to himself.

[shos]

VOTE: ARS

[Wanderer-nl]

shos, where do I say the dayshooter is team scum? When you say 'there's no reason to do so', do you mean me not revealing my target? And the claims are in the thread, why are you asking others to do your homework?

Drixx: It was at first, but then I had some doubt and to prevent that from shifting to paranoia I wanted to have it cleared up.
What do you think of what I could share about my nightresult so far?