New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[Cheetory6]

Boonskiies' push to get rid of me is also awful and he's coasting on being dragon's biffle.

This doesn't surprise me.
Being conftown saps the energy from most people.
[which is why it was bad that they claimed immediately ayooo]

[lalaladucks]

Explain how this is more likely to come from town than scum here. Can no one else please comment on this until lala answers?

Okay.
I can empathise with what Boo was saying there - getting frustrated at being accused of scumminess for (seemingly obviously) ridiculous reasons, although of course no one else knows how stupid they are, apart from yourself. The tone of the post reads as genuinely frustrated town in my opinion.
I admit it isn't actually a particularly great justification for townreading Bookitty, but it swayed me to thinking she's townish nonetheless.

[Cheetory6]

Why is scumBookitty also not frustrated in that situation?

[SilverWolf]

Explain how this is more likely to come from town than scum here. Can no one else please comment on this until lala answers?

Okay.
I can empathise with what Boo was saying there - getting frustrated at being accused of scumminess for (seemingly obviously) ridiculous reasons, although of course no one else knows how stupid they are, apart from yourself. The tone of the post reads as genuinely frustrated town in my opinion.
I admit it isn't actually a particularly great justification for townreading Bookitty, but it swayed me to thinking she's townish nonetheless.

But scum can get extremely frustrated and upset in the same situation but for different reasons. It can be genuine or it can be faked-if the person is scum. No one likes being tunnelled. The key here is to figure out which alignment is doing it and why and I never, ever town or scumread someone based off one post. I am not saying Bookitty is scum for this post or is not being genuine but this post in no way makes her town. You should really look at that Delicious link because House used AtE against me very successfully. So successfully in fact, that I actually got mad at him for it post game for laying a huge guilt trip on me and picking at me all game.

[dragonspawn]

Where's the fun in that dragon?
Aren't you enjoying this constant guessing game of whether I'm 180ing it or turning over a new leaf?

Nah I've town reading you at the moment. So in not really guessing much. If I see something to make me change my mind I will. Till then I'd like some other people dead.

[dragonspawn]

It's ironic that PB is pushing a PL of me when his contributions really aren't much better than mine.

Boonskiies' push to get rid of me is also awful and he's coasting on being dragon's biffle.

Why is anyone's push of you awful? You've been playing horribly.

[DeltaWave]

VOTE: Laladucks

This is a policy lynch.

[SilverWolf]

Dearest Annie,

I don't at all doubt that you're accurate in your reads. However, not explaining stuff only helps the dirty scumbumbles and we don't want that, right? I could find exactly five mentions of Kitz in your ISO, might you be able to give your top reason for believing she's guilty? Is it the tone/feeling you get from her posts?

so many elongated ellipses, kinda disconcerting

Wolf, if I voted for Kitz after Skybird would you think I'm scum

I could go for a Kitz lynch

I find both these posts interesting. You want to know why?

Because you only mention Kitz once when you ask her if she is scum here 269 and a few posts after continuing that convo and I don't think you've ever given any reasons why you think she's scum.

[Bookitty]

As promised, why I think Cheetory is scum:

I didn't think this at first, to be fair. His entry into the game didn't ping me at all, even the silly random.org joke vote. That all seems pretty normal to me. I actually liked his wagoning early on.

Here's where the problem starts (and I didn't think it was a problem at the time, but it really is):

/confirmang
Early SPERM catches the EGG
Teeheee

VOTE: Skybird

I trust Cheetory.

How's it going, shmucks?

Yeah, Varsoon buddying, that's nothing new. Here's Cheet's response:

Ozgin. Listen.
I'm a trustworthy guy.
Get on board the trust-me-train and get this skybird wagon out the muthafuckin station.

ALSO WHY AREN'T YOU HAPPY TO BE IN ANOTHER GAME WITH ME.
UGH.

Here, I think, is where I start becoming twitchy about Cheetory:

Idfk I know I'm defending Ozgin a lot, and while it might seem dumb because I'm not even strongly townreading him or anything, I just don't like the angles people are choosing to push on him atm. It feels too self-assured, sleazy and misdirect-ish.

I would need to actually look at his reasoning for townreading Titus and scumreading you to not just be talking hot air right now though, so give me some time and I'll try to decide how I feel about that from a more informed POV.

I'm not going to follow every single thing a player has done. Ozgin's tone pinged me as townish for a while. That's more important than tracing every single thing that the guy has said and understanding it.

He's defending Ozgin without any really good reasons and without having really read things over. This bothered me at the time and I said so.

Cheet offers to do an ISOdive of me for House and never delivers. It's weird, because he doesn't do it even when he starts trying to push me as scum on this game day. It's like that offer just vanished into thin air. This REALLY bothered me, and I would still like him to do what he promised he would.

He's not really reading the game, including things he is quoting, or he wouldn't have made the fairly obvious mistake he made here:

@Bookitty, can you please explain at me why your wariness of Varsoon stopped just because of Ozgin?

Bookitty wrote:Varsoon, you magnificent bastard, you might not be scum after all!

You know this is multiball, so you being like "oh man Ozgin and Varsoon aren't scum together so Varsoon isn't scum!" feels weird.

I was being sarcastic in pointing out how Ozgin's reads seemed to be exceptionally fluid; Cheetory picks up on that when I TELL him so here:

Bookitty wrote:You don't need to ISOdive. Read the thing you picked out in that post IN the post, including the quote right above it. I don't think it's something you can miss if you actually read the post carefully.

You're right on this point though. >.<
I get what you were saying here now.

But "didn't get it" when he read it in context in the original post.

Cheetory is paying just about enough attention to justify his supposed scumread and even counterevidence (as presented above) only serves to increase his scumread. It's not a reasonable progression and it makes me think he's scum.

[Cheetory6]

Boo.
Do you really think that I don't play based on feeling and that I don't make mistakes often as town?

I don't know why you would imply I would be less careful as scum.
Why is me having read closely or not indicative of my alignment?
That's total horseshit.

This is a serious warning.
If you don't obvtown in by D4.
You're dead.
Or if I die N3.
But I mean.

[Cheetory6]

And yes.
This is me softclaiming.

[Cheetory6]

That you can't nuance contextual reasons why I would do any of those things as town makes me think you're full of shit which makes me more willing to drop this now.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory is paying just about enough attention to justify his supposed scumread and even counterevidence (as presented above) only serves to increase his scumread.

When in the fuck did I say my scumread got strongest based on that?
That's just a hard misrep and a half.
I would seriously drop what I have right now if I didn't feel like waiting one more day would be better.

[Bookitty]

You didn't SAY it. You voted me right after you agreed that half your case was crap.

Your vote said it for you.

[Cheetory6]

You're right on this point though. >.<
I get what you were saying here now.

In any case, Boo I'm actually pretty sure you're scum this game.
I just may have to be patient with proving it. That's all.

How is this me voting you right after and how is this me saying I got more confident based on that aspect to my case not making sense?
Like jesus Boo who the fuck isn't reading here again?

[Cheetory6]

I voted you like ages before that?
Are you scum by your own logic of me being scum for not reading things carefully?

[Bookitty]

Okay, my bad. Let me find the quotes. Just a sec.

[Bookitty]

Yep, you're right, naked vote way earlier.

I like the inherent oxymoron.
"I'm an arrogant ass but I refuse to acknowledge that I might be being an arrogant ass here"
You should sig that shit.

VOTE: Bookitty

Then you gave your "case":

Cheetory, I don't have much experience with bookitty. What specifically is pinging you about her?

I mean I don't have a huge amount of experience with Boo either?
But the general idea is:
i) She pushes Ozgin seriously thinking he's scum. Once he flips we haven't seen anything from her since, which kind of comes across as her trying to lay low IMO. Her reads are too focused this game and it makes me think she's trying to get by on focusing on one person at a time without having to associate herself with anyone else.
ii) She let go of her hardtownread on Titus a little too easily.
iii) And now I have the added casedness of her read on Varsoon developing in a manner that would suggest she's only hunting for one scumteam.
Boom. Case.

My issue with Boo isn't that she hardpushed Ozgin.
I don't think anyone who was pushing that didn't seriously believe that he was going to flip scum.
I just think that she was worried about the fallout over it and has been trying to fly under the radar.
The focus is on the behavior after the Ozginflip rather than before it.

Since I was busy with work stuff and writing in the intervening period, your point i) is negated. Your point iii was negated. And then you say:

In any case, Boo I'm actually pretty sure you're scum this game.

Even though point i. is just wrong, point iii is the result of your not reading what I wrote, and point ii is that I trusted Titus until her scumslip and then I didn't.

Yeah, your certainty seems justified for sure. (Hint: This also is sarcasm, like the Varsoon comment you misread earlier.)

You did catch me out, though. I saw you had voted me but didn't realise you'd slammed down a naked vote earlier, so I thought it came in post 2328. My bad.

[Cheetory6]

Are you just pretending I didn't softclaim?
Or are we going to keep playing this song and dance of you pretending like I don't have some kind of other reason for voting you in the first place?

[Bookitty]

I have no idea what you're softclaiming. If you're implying you have some sort of result that indicates I'm scum, then you're lying.

You've already soft-claimed, why not come out and give your ~other reason~ outright, please? What's the downside at this point?

[Cheetory6]

Take a look at whatever rolePM you have again.
Think real hard.
If you're town you'll probably figure it out.
I don't think you are though.

[Bookitty]

All this to out my power role? Seriously?

Nice.

So you couldn't have just said that, rather than scumming it up making up crap about me that made no kinda sense? Now you've outed us both, so that's awesome.

[Cheetory6]

Well that reaction is just a load.

[Bookitty]

As opposed to your faked scumread on me based on something that you could have just said, if you were going to claim anyway.

I'll tell you for sure something I know. You're a tracker, not a watcher, because I did visit Anen last night as a Vanilla Cop and I didn't kill her, so someone else must have. So how would I know THAT if I HAD killed her?

[Cheetory6]

I believe you may not have killed Anen.
The real question is whether Wake put in a mafia vanilla cop.