Mini 1671 - Eclipse Mafia - Total Eclipse (Game Over)

[Zoronos]

Ugh, OTOH, not OTH. On the other hand. I suck at typing.

[Zoronos]

Green Crayons - You kind of ignored me when I asked you why you thought Peace was town. Any chance you can enlighten me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In 90 BBT says the juls wagon is bad.
In his next few posts he uses the Juls wagon to hunt from. Although that could be defending her, he did say it was bad.
In 251 he townreads Juls.
He keeps mentioning ABR's vote on Juls.
Posts like 414 indicate he wants input from the juls slot.
But then in 454 he's asking people not to lynch Juls instead of trying to push his townread on her
In 758 his townread of her is a thing of the past. So when did this change?

Nice. You have shown you can do a running commentary of my ISO. Is that supposed to show something?

GC town-
pisskop probably town

Juls and ABR concerning...
I don't like your vote BBT but can be self protection
Zoro has been largely uninvolved in the game and now tunneling and parking
EQ- no clue

so BBT you are a good suspect, there are others. I am voting within a suspect pool where this is other traction and you "remind" me. I don't have particular behaviors to identify and when I do that I get it often wrong... right now this is the way looking at stuff...

Why don't you like my vote? Zoro is quite likely to be town, would be surprised to see that slot flip scum.

I don't get your last 2 lines either, can you reword them please?

BBT - The VCA leans scummy, sure, but I don't think that alone carries this one. Anything more?

There doesn't need to be any more. Look at the VCs, they tell their own story. I quoted all of the votes that made Prolapsed the leading wagon, they are seriously questionable votes and I believe that's where our focus should be Today.

Where did the Prolapsed wagon come from?
Why did it happen?
Was Prolapsed acting super scummy or is there something more behind that wagon?

[Green Crayons]

@Zoro:

Green Crayons - You kind of ignored me when I asked you why you thought Peace was town. Any chance you can enlighten me?

I was waiting for Peace to respond to your case instead of preemptively defending Peace by way of my reactions. And then, once you were like "oh, I guess that's a semi-town response," I basically back-burnered it.

Work got busy, so I'll have input later.

[Juls]

I was lightly suspicious of Prolapsed because of two weak reasons for voting me (first was that I didn't catch that IC meant Innocent Child and the second because of AtE when I made a self deprecating joke). I don't think it was a bad L-2 vote. Jeanne and Garmr hammered him while I was sleeping. If you want to ask Peacebringer why he voted him go ahead, I don't speak for PB. But the fact of the matter is that lynch "happened" because two town people put him at L-1 and hammered. That is not a scum driven wagon or a scum driven lynch, that is simply two townspeople quick lynching. You, bbt, defended my vote on that wagon so this massive shift by you is scummy to me.

[Juls]

Vote Count 1.3

Juls

(5): Skold, Ankamius, Prolapsed Brain, Garmr, PeaceBringer

Prolapsed Brain

(2): Albert B. Rampage, Scarab

Skold

(2): Clusk92, BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

(1): Juls

Zoronos

(1): Sotty7

Not Voting

(2): Zoronos, Jeanne11

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-24 15:00:00)

Reasons for people's votes on me:
Skold - because I naked voted him during a pressure wagon
Ankamius - can't tell if he was voting with Skold or what?
Prolapsed - Because I didn't equate IC to innocent child
Garmr - because I acted "similar" to a game we played together where I was scum. In that game I made like 5 posts and when pressed he couldn't provide a single parallel.
Peace - because he thought I was a new player/ low hanging fruit. When he realized I wasn't he changed his vote

This is why I have such a problem with you pulling that vote count. None of these are even close to solid reasons for voting me. The only one related to anything in THIS game is Skold and he was calling me town day 2.

[Juls]

V/LA

over the weekend.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was lightly suspicious of Prolapsed because of two weak reasons for voting me (first was that I didn't catch that IC meant Innocent Child and the second because of AtE when I made a self deprecating joke). I don't think it was a bad L-2 vote. Jeanne and Garmr hammered him while I was sleeping. If you want to ask Peacebringer why he voted him go ahead, I don't speak for PB. But the fact of the matter is that lynch "happened" because two town people put him at L-1 and hammered. That is not a scum driven wagon or a scum driven lynch, that is simply two townspeople quick lynching. You, bbt, defended my vote on that wagon so this massive shift by you is scummy to me.

You understand that it wasn't Prolapsed that said you mixed up the IC acronym? It was Peace...Prolapsed voted you because he said you wasn't reading.

You're right, town hammered the wagon. That's why I left the end of the wagon off, it doesn't matter. All it means is that scum were influential in the change of votes that made Prolapsed the leading wagon instead of you.

Can you explain how two townies voting for L-1 and hammer respectively means the wagon WAS NOT scum driven? I don't see how they link together in any way whatsoever.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Juls, what are your current reads on the GC and pisskop slots?

Sotty, where are you?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Juls singling out Zoronod was weird, that's the only thing that struck me, otherwise she seems more like she's busy than anything.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thoughts on the game ABR?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd appreciate it if you could join me on Juls.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm also having trouble seeing all 3 scum on the Prolapsed wagon...

Which means one of Sotty/Zoronos is probably scum and I'm town reading both of them.

I need help.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There must be 3 town on the Prolpased wagon when he was at L-2...right? Like, all 3 scum cannot be on that wagon...

I have like, one confident town read and I'm not even that confident in it anymore.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

ABR........where did you go?

[Juls]

@BBT - Prolapsed said I wasn't paying attention because I asked what Jeanne was having the mod confirm. Which was the whole IC thing. He voted me because he thought I wasnt reading while in fact I was just confused at what IC was referring to. I have a town read on GC. Originally it came from the Clusk slot, I wasn't crazy about sns but I wouldn't have called him super scummy either. GC has been good. I have a scum read on PK and would be vote them at any time. I've said this multiple times, how have you missed it?

Also, with regard to your question about why it's not scum driven it's because I am telling you the last 3 votes were town. I don't know who were the first few there, and phone posting so...But whoever they were, they were already there before me and PB jumped. Like I said, I don't know about PB but I know about the last 3 votes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I feel I should clarify.

When I say a wagon is scum-driven, I generally mean that the people pushing the wagon are the scum, not the people who hop on at the end of the wagon.

The middling votes, the votes that make all the difference between VC 1.3 and 1.4 are scummy. I think there is at least 1, probably two scum, in those middling votes and 1 scum in Sotty/Zoronos which I'm going to need help in working out who it is because I'm town reading both of them.

What's your read on Peace?

[Green Crayons]

Spoiler: thoughts on Peace, all for Zoro

In my chat with him on D1 about his attack on Clusk (who was then SNS, who was then... you?), he deflected and demurred, then town read me with a hedge. An unprompted town read of an accuser is scummy, imo.

I don't see how Peace deflected and demurred. Peace's interaction with Clusk wasn't exactly what I would call productive, but certainly matches up with what Peace explains he was trying to do (gauge Clusk's reaction to aggressive commentary).

Peace's town read of you in Post 157 is alignment neutral. I agree that a sudden town read of an accuser is scummy, but I don't know if I would consider your Post 148, Post 150, and Post 155 of the quality to label you as an "accuser." You were certainly probing Peace's play, which Peace-scum might have been overly sensitive about, to be sure. But an equally plausible reading is that Peace-town just did to you what he did with Clusk.

mmm, maybe Peace's immediate followup of self-meta in Post 158 is a bit much, but I've gotten burned by suspecting people who self-meta, so (shrug)

He didn't do much to scum hunt D2; no questions, no case advancement. The closest was his engagement with Skold, calling Skold's reasoning dumb. He was right, Skold's reasoning was dumb, but that engagement wasn't alignment indicating, imo, since he didn't seem to lead to an updating of the read.

I agree that a lot of Peace's D2 is not alignment indicative.

His deadline handwringing in 554 felt scummy; his vote was already on Skold while he lamented there was no time to go elsewhere.

(shrug) I don't see it.

Especially when he jumped from skold over to SNS immediately after in Post 561 upon BBT's rallying. We know that skold wasn't scum, so this action appears to bolster the notion that 554 was true, that Peace didn't particularly care for the skold vote, but he didn't know what else to do in light of the deadline.

I've had a hard time following the logic in Peace's posting, and my conclusion is that he's doing a lot of smokescreening / non-content-posting. His end-of-day discussions with Juls at el typify this; lots of talking about how to mafia, little actually find-the-scum. He hasn't been actively sorting town from scum.

I mean, Peace's logic isn't hard to follow?

He isn't the most active content poster, but that isn't alignment indicative.

The D2 discussion with Juls is Juls and Peace getting drawn into a lengthy conversation that only they really care about (w/r/t Juls's suspicions of Peace). Happens all the time between town/town and scum/town. I haven't figured out how to distinguish. FWIW, Juls brought up play in Post 578, which took them down that road, if you really hate that line of conversation.

What's the town side of it; what's the towny aspect that I'm missing?

- Peace's early D1 play (especially w/r/t skold & Juls) looks natural and easy. Not too forced, not too calculated.
- I might call Peace's intentional aggravation of Clusk scum-motivated if Peace didn't then essentially say "welp townreading Clusk."
- His contradictory stance regarding Sotty (pointed out by BBT's Post 251) is just something really easy for a scum to avoid, and there was no fear of Sotty being lynched when Peace unvoted in Post 241 requiring him to voice such a position ripe for being suspected.
- There's danger of ATE, but I liked Peace's response to Sotty in Post 590 and Post 593.

[Juls]

It would be different if that wagon sat there several days and I was pushing people to vote it. I literally voted with an "I can get on board with that", went to bed and woke up to him being lynched. This argument of yours is weak and flimsy. I still want you to explain how I am scum otherwise because going "lalala vote count" is a cop out.

Peace is my second highest scum read after pk.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LOL, you joined the wagon that you're two biggest scum reads are on?

Please.

[Juls]

Are you reading the game at all? THAT WAS DAY ONE!!!!! This is day 3. At that time I barely had scum reads. This argument is bull shit and you know it. Scum make bullshit arguments ergo you are scum. I'm done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Peace

is

my second highest scum read after pk.

Present tense sweetheart.

Sorry, you must eat rope now.

[Juls]

That doesn't even make sense. Yes, peace IS currently my second biggest scum read. When the wagon happened he WASN'T. Neither was Scarab for that matter.

And don't be patronizing with that 'sweetheart' shit.

[Juls]

Oh you're talking about your wagon. You're doing that all by yourself with your bull shit arguments.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, just to clarify;

You're happy pushing a wagon that your two biggest scum reads are on. Yes?