Mini 1663: Rick and Morty Mafia (Game Over)

[Elbirn]

We already know that scum have a bus driver in existence. I'll explain why. Heartless died. Heartless tends to be a better player. So Heartless heals scum OR his target was swapped so he would heal scum. Heartless claimed he would heal Flames. We know Flames was town. So that means either Heartless lied for absolutely no reason, or Heartless submitted that he would heal Flames and scum bussed it. I'm going to suppose that Heartless wasn't just an asinine liar.

I intended to jail killer jester.
We had a vig, who had intentions of shooting last night, but didn't reveal the target. He hinted at shooting RBD but was leaving it up in the air. If scum feared someone shooting them, they would take all actions targeting them and redirect them to another target. So I'm seeing Killer Jester being swapped with either lufan or RBD. No one was aware of my intentions to jail Killer Jester, but I believe Killer Jester is lying about being blocked. It is the most logical sense of action results here.

Part 1: Pretty much matches with what I was thinking by Day 2's end, where if Flames flipped town then D3x, as the busdriver, had to be scum. Except then he died and flipped town. What's got me confused is why would scum kill D3x when he could have been lynched today based on that, and instead they revealed that they have to have a busdriver?

Part 2: See this doesn't make sense, you jail kept Jester, but you think he's lying about being blocked. Wha?

[Titus]

Part 2 - Rephrased: We have a scum bus driver. Where did they go last night? I claimed to have blocked KJ, but lufan's kill did not go through. Why? If Lufan or RBD wasn't jailed/healed/roleblocked, then the kill should have gone through. We can eliminate doctor for obvious reasons. Scum jailkeeper doesn't make sense here as we have heard about zero roleblocks the other days (correct me if I am wrong). If scum had a jailkeeper, someone else would have claimed blocked last night. Roleblocker functions on the same premise. Scum doctor is obviously shit because of the bussing and lack of town killing power. So we're left with town jailed lufan/RBD or protected. Yet, that's not the action I claimed.

Based on claims and logical setup deduction, we're left with an impossibility that should not happen and a scum bus driver that did not act. Solving the two says that the scum bus driver acted and swapped KJ (my jail target) with lufan or RBD. If that's the case though, KJ should have claimed a result making me look bad. She didn't, so she's likely scum.

[Titus]

If scum had a jailkeeper, someone else would have claimed blocked

last night

night 1. Roleblocker functions on the same premise. Scum doctor is obviously shit because of the bussing and lack of town killing power. So we're left with town jailed lufan/RBD or

Fixed.

[Elbirn]

If Scum busser swapped KJ with Lufan, then you would have jailkept Lufan. Which makes sense as there wasn't a kill last night.
If Scum busser swapped KJ with Rainbowdash, then you would have jailkept Rainbowdash. Which makes sense as there wasn't a kill last night.

In either scenario KJ should have a result.

Waaaaiiiit, I had to brainstorm out loud in order to get it. But it's bullshit, because KJ's claimed role is that he predicts who the next lynch target is. He doesn't *have* a result to claim, he told the mod that he predicts Kthx dies today, which he stated in thread. Where's the beef?

[Titus]

If I get jailed it's as if my prediction never happened, so I won't get anything.

Can we get a hammer in here what what.

This implies that KJ should have had a result to share. If she was jailed, she'd get no actual result, meaning she predicted Flames's lynch.

[Titus]

But if I am wrong, then my case on KJ is admittedly not as strong.

[Titus]

Setting that aside for a moment,

if we suppose that KJ is town, then RBD would logically be scum. Scum wouldn't swap KJ with RBD if they were both scum, that makes no sense at all. If RBD was town, why swap RBD at all and let lufan shoot RBD?

If KJ is scum, scum swapped RBD with KJ... why? RBD was likely to be shot.

Hmm

VOTE: unvote

[Titus]

Part 2, swap with Lufan

Supposing scum swapped Lufan with KJ... why? What would they gain from this? From what we know... no one was targeting lufan. I can't see that making any sense.

[Titus]

Just occurred to me, swap KJ with Lufan. If Lufan shoots KJ, Lufan commits seppuku without my block. It would be a protection measure.

[Titus]

We already know that scum have a bus driver in existence. I'll explain why. Heartless died. Heartless tends to be a better player. So Heartless heals scum OR his target was swapped so he would heal scum. Heartless claimed he would heal Flames. We know Flames was town. So that means either Heartless lied for absolutely no reason, or Heartless submitted that he would heal Flames and scum bussed it. I'm going to suppose that Heartless wasn't just an asinine liar.

I intended to jail killer jester.
We had a vig, who had intentions of shooting last night, but didn't reveal the target. He hinted at shooting RBD but was leaving it up in the air. If scum feared someone shooting them, they would take all actions targeting them and redirect them to another target. So I'm seeing Killer Jester being swapped with either lufan or RBD. No one was aware of my intentions to jail Killer Jester, but I believe Killer Jester is lying about being blocked. It is the most logical sense of action results here.

Part 1: Pretty much matches with what I was thinking by Day 2's end, where if Flames flipped town then D3x, as the busdriver, had to be scum. Except then he died and flipped town. What's got me confused is why would scum kill D3x when he could have been lynched today based on that, and instead they revealed that they have to have a busdriver?

Part 2: See this doesn't make sense, you jail kept Jester, but you think he's lying about being blocked. Wha?

The answer to part 1 is scum do not intend to kill Rick. They intended to shoot me (keep the gamestate the same) but Rick swapped with me. See kthx result. FMPOV, thx countdown.

[Jingle]

I did jail KJ.

Jingle, are you seriously going to argue no scum redirector because town had one? Were you not in UDesign?

Yes, the Upick is totally the same as a game designed from scratch. That's reasonable. Except that no sane mod puts multiple busdrivers in the same setup when they don't have to. That's a night action resolution nightmare waiting to happen. UDesign suffered from us giving in batshit roles.

And let's just rewind for a minute and look at this chain of events again. Lufan claims to have killed RBD. RBD didn't die. You claim not to have protected either of them.

I see a few options:

There's an SK. It explains Heartless dying, without the need for a second Busdriver.

There's this redirector. Which means that the kill from lufan is still unaccounted for, because there's no way in fuck a scum busdriver doesn't turn the vig into a scum vig.

I think the first is by far the more likely. In that case, lufan is probably the SK, but don't worry, luf, that means you're definitely off the lynch table today.

If kthx is town, Titus is town. No way in fuck did scum target themselves for the kill last night. I guess luf could've shot Titus, while scum No Killed, but that's super unlikely. That means that we don't lynch Titus before kthx.

kthx is still probably scum by reason of balance and setup.

I'm trying to work my head around KJ being a scum kill. That doesn't seem likely. Maybe if there's a scumbusdriver, they were shooting at kj to hit someone else because he'd be an unlikely protection? I dunno, it seems likely he made the nightkill.

Oh, shit. I just realized what I'd have done as a scum busdriver with kthx being town. I'd have faked a guilty or an innocent. Think about it, if kthx were to get a scum result on Titus, we'd be lynching either kthx or Titus. When whichever one flipped town, we'd then be lynching the other. It's fucking perfect. That means that scum put kthx on themselves, and d3x targeted scum. So if Titus/kthx/lufan is all town, then RBD has to be scum. IF this busdriver exists, it's RBD/KJ and one of {Aristophanes/Elbirn}

Elbirn is town. RBD/KJ/Aristophanes? Does that make sense? The scum didn't get to kill last night, because KJ tried and failed. RBD is probably the busdriver. Aristophanes is realclaiming.

UNVOTE:

Fuck. Process of elimination.

Lufan, if you're an SK, claim now. Town can't lynch you ever if you are, and our wincons match at this point.

El is town. I'm town. Titus is conditionally town. If lufan claims SK, he's off the lynch table and that means we have 3 scum in {RBD/KTXH/KJ/ARISTO}.

[Jingle]

Just occurred to me, swap KJ with Lufan. If Lufan shoots KJ, Lufan commits seppuku without my block. It would be a protection measure.

Lufan claimed BP on the night he shot.

[lufan131]

I am not a serial killer, I am a one-shot vig.

[Titus]

Jingle is scum most likely. No serial killer. Scum have redirect.

Based on NAR we conclude either a)scum redirect Lufan directly onto KJ away from RBD

OR

KJ was bussed with Lufan or RBD.

Either scenario matches with the extra heartless death.

Not inclined to lynch Lufan, kthx.

Jingle, why did you vote steal kthx? Is the loss of the vote temporary or permanent.

[Antihero]

Vote Count 3.1

No Lynch - 1 (killerjester)

Not Voting: Aristophanes, Elbirin, Jingle, Kthxbye, lufan131, Rainbowdash, Titus

5 to lynch.
deadline is in (expired on 2015-06-20 13:02:52)

[Titus]

Yeah totally not buying the random unstoppable act from RBD. He has this role, yet does not factor it into his scenarios...

Also, why wasn't RBD vanillaized if he had that role?

[Titus]

Aristo/Jingle/RBD

I think that is the scum team.

[Titus]

VOTE: Jingle

We can test many a theory today...

[Elbirn]

Yeah totally not buying the random unstoppable act from RBD. He has this role, yet does not factor it into his scenarios...

Also, why wasn't RBD vanillaized if he had that role?

She claims she was

[Titus]

Does not make sense with NAR. Same flaw with Jingle. I will go through with Jingle first to show why.

NAR states to resolve all actions impacting other players first.

If Jingle was targeted, he should have been vanilla, thus Kthx not lose his vote.

RBD is a little more complicated as he goes first in NAR breakdown possibly, but we have a missing redirect. We have a claimed redirect or.

[Aristophanes]

Yeah totally not buying the random unstoppable act from RBD. He has this role, yet does not factor it into his scenarios...

Also, why wasn't RBD vanillaized if he had that role?

That was my N1 action.
Pony claims to have gotten a pm saying they were vanilla now, as did Jingle.
If we doubt the validity, perhaps they can summarize what the pm said?
If one is off, one of my actions was blocked and one is likely scum.

[Titus]

Lols... You do realize my theory is they are both scum right...with you...so them backing each other up, even if they could paraphrase that well, is not good enough.

What are your reads?

[killerjester]

By "not get anything" I meant that, for instance, if I get blocked then I won't receive any power even if the predicted lynch goes through. I made a prediction of Mainez N1 but it's not like kiwieagle sent me a message that I was blocked/not blocked.

WRT lynching, I'm still against it. Jingle's been turned vanilla and that was my only real concern about No Lynching. I feel there are too many variables up in the air at the moment and it's not like I plan to sustain a MyLo standard for the rest of the game. I think at some point we're gonna want to NL and if that's the case why wouldn't we do it as early as possible?

[Titus]

@KillerJester, then discuss the reads. Just throwing your hands up isn't going to get us anywhere. You're stifling discussion which is not protown. If you had to lynch, who would it be?

Also, you're supposing Jingle has turned vanilla. There's zero evidence of Aristophanes actually turning people vanilla and it's actually a decent scum gambit to claim vanillaizer.

[Rainbowdash]

@Titus - How are you getting that Jingle is scum? A scum vote thief is basically a free "lets move LYLO up a day secretly" role. You also apparently think that its me, Aristo and Jingle as scum, we all decided to claim roles that would make sense to target each other before the game started and then pushed hard for a D1 massclaim?

Anyways... here are a few of my reads at this point after sleeping on it and what has been happening.

1) Jingle is town. Again, I don't see a vote thief for scum, especially with some weird shenanigans going on.
2) kthnx is scum. Apart from him being scummy just based on play this entire game, his role also sticks out badly. For him to be town it would mean town had four investigative roles at least (motion detector, weak doctor, tracker +/- role cop and morty cop) with two of them being very strong ones.
3) The only way I am alive is if
a) kthnx is scum lying about his role (I actually 100% expect kthxn to flip role cop - just scum role cop)
b) Titus is lying about who she targeted
c) lufan is lying about who she targeted
d) There is something else for scum we don't know about (redirector, blocker, etc)
4) Titus is town if kthnx is town (it would assume scum tried to kill that role)

Just looking at some very bare bones reasons that we have scum kthnx though

1) He lied about his role due to "fear of being NKed" while ignoring the fact that we had a weak doctor and a tracker claim already. It only changed when he was getting votes D2. Note him being scum one shot rolecop could solve some of the "what happened last night" shenanigans.
2) For him to be telling the truth town would need four (at a minimum) investigative role group
3) More WIFOM, but if he was an actual useful role as he claims to be... why did scum either submit a kill through KJ (blocked by Titus) or try to kill Titus?
4) If he was a role cop, isn't a massclaim just about the best possible thing that could happen D1?
5) Assuming I am town for all others... wouldn't it make sense for scum to have a role that is searching for me?
6) He opened the game with a ton of null reads and trying to create a false dilemma between Heatless and Jingle
7) He had no idea who else was voting Jingle with him at one point and had no idea why they were voting him
8) His N1 target
9) His VCA is massively scummy since he is basically just manipulating two forgone lynches to throw dirt on players

Im not moving my vote

Vote kthnx