Newbie 1608: Snow Cones (Game Over)

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Post Post #575 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:28 pm

Post by superbowl9 »

In post 574, BlueBloodedToffee wrote: - This is a hit and miss post from Zik for me. Some of the things he says are really good and some are really bad.

I don't get the town read on Keyser, especially the strength of it. There have been a couple of posts from Keyser that I can see coming from town but there are also posts that I heavily dislike.

The town read on Bulba is pretty bad as well. You use his 'softing' as a reason to town-read him but make no mention of him retracting his soft. See my earlier post regarding his claim for why this is important. There are claims you can make that can be faked; I feel this should be obvious.

I also see very little scum hunting from Bulba, he just seems to move his vote around a lot with little/no reasoning behind it.

The scum read on Super is lolbad. If Super flips scum in this game, I'll quit playing. I think all of Super's posts are pretty solid, his reasoning and thought processes behind everything he does is pretty clear to see.

There has only been one post from Super that I didn't like (the one regarding asking everyone's opinion on Mantis) but this one post is nowhere near enough to negate the shining beacon of towniness he has been throughout this game.

The Mitey and Reubus reads are pretty good though; though I'm conflicted on the Reubus/Fro99er slot right now for reasons coming up.

- I like this post from Zik, good points for Reubus!Scum. Not a big fan of the amish tell (though it's slightly nullified because you were asked about it)

- Yeah, Bulba is scum. This vote is horrible and somewhat convenient given how the game-state is changing and it appears that (for reasons unknown to mankind) Super is somehow becoming a target to be lynched.

- I can see what Fro99er meant about our thought being the exact same at this point of the game. Usually, this is a pretty big town tell for me. I know my alignment, so when I see someone approaching the game from the very same mindset this usually points to them sharing my alignment. You also continue this in your catch up, stating a lot of the things I have stated/thought.

However, I'm conflicted because a) I was scum reading Reubus and b) you commit the cardinal sin of commenting on your own slot. This is something scum are more likely to do than town because they are aware/want to be aware of how their slot is being perceived by the other players.

Gonna need more to try and sort this slot out.

- Another post from Mitey that states nothing. I don't understand why this slot hasn't been pressured yet. She has provided next to nothing the entire game.


I feel like this is the part where you vote mitey. Why no vote?
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Post Post #576 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:52 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- This is a good post from Keyser. I really don't see this post coming from scum and I think my problem with Keyser may be because of his play-style.

- Another good post - replicating my thoughts entirely. Surprised it took this long for someone to notice.

- Bulba, it appears you were unsatisfied with Super's reaction to your 'reaction test' and you unvote anyway. I don't get it.

- Really? You're confident you can find one scum out of 2/3 of the playerlist? No shit sherlock.

This is also the second time you have explicitly referred to looking for one scum; why one scum?
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Post Post #577 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:55 pm

Post by superbowl9 »

Ohp, I misread the post you were up to. My bad.
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Post Post #578 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:56 pm

Post by superbowl9 »

Ohp, I misread the post you were up to. My bad.
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Post Post #579 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:14 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

/ - I don't know wtf Bulba is doing. Fro99er is scum and before Fro99er has even posted in the thread Fro99er becomes town...I can't even follow what actually happened there. The fact he quotes his own posts to justify the position he takes is weird as fuck.

- I actually like this post from Mitey. Firstly, she notices that Bulba appears to only be looking for one scum and secondly she votes Bulba.

Her reasons for voting Bulb are pretty weak but given Bulba is my top scum read, I really don't mind it. I did have a thought that it could be scum attempting a bus to distance themselves in case Mitey is the Day's lynch (which she seemed convinced she was) so, there's that.
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Post Post #580 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:33 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

- Bulba says Mitey is not scum.

- But he will keep his vote on her anyway.

- Provides reads-list which involves Mitey being a scum lean. The inconsistency in Bulba's play is ridiculously scummy. The guy can't keep a consistent thought process for more than a page.

He flip-flops all the time to suit the current game state. He's very 'go with the flow' and quotes his own posts when voting/unvoting as if that somehow validates what he is doing.

Bulba is scum. I'm almost 100% sure of it.
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Post Post #581 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:46 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

OK, going to work with your theory on Bulbazoor:

If Bulbazoor is mafia he's a mafia goon. This kind of explains why Fraggernaut was grilling him so hard on D1 (at the time I thought Fraggernaut and others should have left Bulbazoor alone, with the potential of him being a town PR who had soft roleclaimed, I was strongly against his D1 lynch).

However, Fraggernaut was justly perplexed why Bulbazoor soft roleclaimed - unbeknownst to us, Fraggernaut was the Town Jailkeeper, therefore if Bulbazoor was town,
Fraggernaut knew Bulbazoor was either lying about his town PR, OR that he was the Town 1-shot Bulletproof, which is a role you DO NOT want to breadcrumb to the mafia. If Bulbazoor is the Town 1-shot Bulletproof by soft roleclaiming early he made himself instant lynch-bait for the rest of the game.

Therefore, fairplay to Fraggernaut to keep the pressure on Bulbazoor til his NK.
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Post Post #582 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:00 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

That was a fucking mess leading up to the D1 lynch. Last minute lynches leave very little to be analyzed and you can bet your bottom dollar that scum make sure they're around to secure a mislynch and stir shit up.

- There is scum on the Mantis wagon. Super is town and Fragg is conftown. I am super conflicted on Fro99er right now, sometimes I think he is town, sometimes I think he is scum. I'm not sure why I'm having so much difficulty sorting out that slot.

Bulba and Mitey make sense as a scum team for me, but I really don't think it's good scum-hunting to discuss associations before any relevant flips have happened. They are both scummy, independent of the other person.

- This makes me think Fro99er is town. He pretty much thinks the exact same thoughts as me throughout the entire time and I find it extremely difficult to believe that scum could approach the game in this way.

- Super, there could have been bussing between Mitey/Bulba. I'm not willing to delve further into it until we know for sure though as it's a waste of time and effort if I'm wrong on one of them.

- This pre-flip associative hunting is a waste of time. I understand that you have done it for everyone, but it's a lot of effort for low reward. Wait until we have more information before doing things like this.

- Keyser, it is not certain that someone knows Bulba is lying. We could be in the set-up that contains only the JK.

- This is exactly why pre-flip associations are bad. You're reaching pretty hard here for reasons to scum read Keyser. I really don't like this post/vote.

- Nah, I don't believe this claim for a second. You have not played the game in a BP manner; reasons stated earlier in my catch up. You know full well (due to scum having, IMO, two mafia goons) that you can claim BO safely and nobody will counter-claim you. This is why scum soft without outing too much; the perfect opportunity.

- Really? You think we should lynch over half the playerlist again? Man, your scum hunting skills are truly spectacular.

- [IC] Most games are not like this Keyser. Newbie games are terrible for replacements, however it's very rare for an IC to need replacing. It's even rarer for a Mod (though I do believe GIF is back now) to be replaced, so I hope you stay on the site a little longer and try out some of the other games when you can.[/IC]
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Post Post #583 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:03 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Alright, I'm caught up.

Keyser and Super are town. Forever.

Fro99er might be town, feel like it's more likely than not, but some things just ping my scumdar pretty hard.

The Rosen/Zik slot is very hard to read - Rosen didn't post a whole lot. I liked Zik's early posting and now he's gone V/LA. Overall, there is very little from this slot to work with so I'm interested in engaging with this slot in real time to develop a read.

Mitey is scummy. My gut tells me she is lynch-bait but her play tells me she is scum.

My biggest scum read, by a long, long way is Bulba. He needs to be today's lynch.

VOTE: Bulba
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Post Post #584 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:15 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 582, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:513 - Keyser, it is not certain that someone knows Bulba is lying. We could be in the set-up that contains only the JK.


At that point in the game, if there was a Town 1-shot Bulletproof he would know Bulbazoor was lying for certain. Since then, no counter claim.

Conclusion: Bulbazoor is either Town 1-shot Bulletproof (set-up | column A) or a Mafia Goon (set-up | row 1).
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Post Post #585 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:23 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Hint: It's the latter.
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Post Post #586 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:45 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

That's another set of 'new eyes' who think's Mitey is scummy :shifty:

@MiteyMouse, do you do this on purpose? :?

Actually, Mitey has already answered this earlier:

In post 431, MiteyMouse wrote:And a bit about me. My Scum hunting isn't like other people's necessarily. I question and get my reads and keep them with me. I feel that posting my reads frequently gives Scum more to work with.
Now, I know this is not the norm and I frequently get myself lynched.
I am of the mind that every lynch gets information so, I'm ok with it when I'm Town.


In post 431, MiteyMouse wrote:you will giggle when you find my crumb.

I'm not giggling... I don't want to lynch town again. I hope you value your life now for D2, if you are town you should. There is no need to sacrifice yourself as an information-lynch. Need you to fight for your life now (all townie lives are important, even the anti-town ones). I'm nervous how easy this MiteyMouse vote/lynch is.
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Post Post #587 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:45 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Join me on Bulba then.

It's almost a guaranteed scum lynch.
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Post Post #588 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:07 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

Need Bulbazoor's reply - a Bulbazoor town PR/mafia goon flip would be a massive game-changer. I'm also aware scum would love for us to lynch him if he's not lying, and we are miss-reading his emotive inconsistent playing style.

Need to look at if a Bulbazoor-MiteyMouse scum partnership is likely/unlikely too.

I think I first saw it as unlikely but will re-check later.
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Post Post #589 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:09 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

There are plenty of things that point towards a Bulba/Mitey scum team.

There is no point looking into it further until we have a flip though.
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Post Post #590 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:30 am

Post by superbowl9 »

I don't disagree that bulb has been acting scummy, and his flip will yield quite a bit of info either way. Although I'm more inclined to think he's just village idiot, I wouldn't be against this wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulb
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Post Post #591 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:35 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

You don't have any scum reads, Super?
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Post Post #592 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:41 am

Post by Fro99er »

BBT, I like you. I'm also a Toffee (an American one).

Non game related stuff out of the way, I am nervous about a push on Bulb. Obviously any push at this point is with the intention of a lynch, because he's already claimed.

I mean, Bulb's D1 did make no sense. I've even highlighted several inconsistencies in my D1 analysis of his slot. And yes, I did pull a rope a dope on Mitey. I didn't want to lynch a possible town PR D1, but Mitey had no problem. That's why I have a hard time making them out to be a scum team.

Either way, the flip does give us info, I agree.
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Post Post #593 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:42 am

Post by Fro99er »

Super: totally agree. I believe Bulb is VI and Mitey is scum.
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Post Post #594 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:44 am

Post by superbowl9 »

I do.
Scum reading mitey, have been scumreading bulb for a while, but my gut tells me VI on him
Null-scum on zik
Keyser is slight townlean
Town reading you (BBT) and frog
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Post Post #595 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:48 am

Post by Fro99er »

Bulb wanted a recap of why I thought Enomis was town. Here it is from my ISO.

In post 289, Fro99er wrote:Response to Enomis posts:
Spoiler:
In post 69, enomis wrote:
@Reubus:

I read insincere as trying to portray a town image by saying something but you don't really mean(The i don't care statement). That's why i thought it was abit scummy.

The second statement is abit scummy because you are trying to use textbook to defend yourself

Not a huge read but something to start with.

This feels honest and towny, especially the "not a huge read, but something to start with" part. Feels like an open mind. I like that.

@keyser:

In post 45, Keyser Söze wrote:At the moment I think he's scum, thus, I believe that reaction was real. Am I allowed to change my mind later?

You haven't answered my question. Why does his
alignment
have to do with the reaction being real or fake. Why can't he be town giving that reaction?

Town absolutely could give that reaction. Again, an open mind rather than just pushing everyone as scum who acts a certain way. More town points for Enomis.

In post 70, enomis wrote:
@Keyser:


In post 59, Keyser Söze wrote:I like Bulbs' defence.

He could have said I was talking s##t and thrown a vote on me, but he explained each point clearly and calmly. He wasn't afraid of me flagging his post. Idk if anyone else agrees.

So him talking shit and throwing a vote on you would have been scummy? I could totally see town doing that though.

And you said "Idk if anyone else agrees" comment is scummy right? And you are using it yourself, multiple times it seems.

Why is explaining each point clearly and calmly towny? I find it a matter of playstyle on how they play. I am curious as to why you find that alignment-indicative.

Again, Enomis looking for alignment or motivation. Not just fitting everything into one box ("i could totally see town doing that", "why is explaining each point clearly and calmly towny?"). More town points for Enomis.


In post 291, Fro99er wrote:
Spoiler: Enomis town stuff
In post 111, enomis wrote:
@keyer:

I don't understand your post 73. I don't udnerstand the first part of your post 74 too.
keyer wrote:It was quite clear I was being sarcastic. Idk if anyone else agrees. I was waiting for someone to naively bite on that... :lol:


And what's your conclusion on people who naively bite on it? Seems to me you are doing a lot of pointless reaction testing and they don't even give any information.

It has felt that way at times with Keyser.

@superbowl:

I got the feeling that he was trying to use textbook to defend himself. I find it mroe likely for scum to do that, although it wasn't a particular strong read, it is a place to start.

More honesty in the reads from Enomis. Still town.


In post 297, Fro99er wrote:
In post 226, enomis wrote:Bulb is town btw. Try to look at his ISO from a newbie scummer and you will see that it is unlikely it comes from Scum POV.

Enomis is soooooooo town. I will keep an open mind and definitely do this.



Also, I find it interesting Enomis found Bulb town, and now the same slot wants to push Bulb.
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Post Post #596 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:49 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Thanks :) You're not bad yourself

Here's the thing with Bulba; his play DOES NOT match his claim. If you're the BP you try your hardest to ensure you're the NK. Bulba did not do this, in fact, he went out of this way to avoid being the NK. This makes no sense from a BP perspective. Further, if we lynch wrong Today (and it's not Bulba we lynch) we head into LyLo with a potential fake-claim; that is dangerous territory.

The slot needs to be sorted Today. It's not like I'm saying 'Hey, let's lynch Bulba because it provides us with lots of info' I'm saying that Bulba is scum, independent of his claim (a claim he knows full well cannot be CC'ed despite his snarky 'CC me if you dare comment') and the information it provides is a bonus.

PEdit - OK, wanted you to clarify you were scum reading Bulba.
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Post Post #597 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:50 am

Post by Fro99er »

In post 594, superbowl9 wrote:I do.
Scum reading mitey, have been scumreading bulb for a while, but my gut tells me VI on him
Null-scum on zik
Keyser is slight townlean
Town reading you (BBT) and frog

You do what? Think they could be a scumteam? If so, just wondering what changed from here...

In post 511, superbowl9 wrote:
Bulba-Mitey:
Mitey has a bulb scumread/vote, and it kind of seems unnecessary looking at it from a mitey-bulba scumteam perspective. Wouldn't mitey have just not gotten involved instead of slapping a randomly timed vote on her partner? Bulb seems to have wanted a mitey lynch for a while, despite his flip-flopping read on her. Not the likeliest team.
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Post Post #598 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:51 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 121, Bulbazoor wrote:How is it scummy to soft frag? What if i was a special role softing then denying
to remove scum trying to kill me
.

This post is particularly damning.

This is not a post that comes from the Town BP.
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Post Post #599 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:51 am

Post by Fro99er »

EBWOP: Nevermind, I see I do was about BBT's question to Super.

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