Open 596: Mega PopCorn Mafia - Over

[vonflare]

Why is everyone scum reading me?

I would shoot west btw. Case incoming.

[vonflare]

Don't shoot me for like, 30 mins and I'll convince you west is a good shot.

[vonflare]

West starts the game jumping on the fact that I said "Can we stop the 'shoot meeeeee' shenanigans and get down to scumhunting?". He says that this is scummy becuase "There was a while between the last "shoot me" post and this one". It looks a lot like he was trying to find something to scumread me about. this is a weak case, if not just made-up.

Can we stop the 'shoot meeeeee' shenanigans and get down to scumhunting?

There was a while between the last "shoot me" post and this one. Why did you feel like saying this?

there were literally minutes between those posts. i was ninjad.

You were ninjad for the twenty minutes between 89 and 127?

it felt like we were discussing it at the time that i posted.

it felt like we were discussing it at the time that i posted.

So, you weren't ninjad. Why did you say you were ninjad?

it felt like we were discussing it at the time that i posted.

So, you weren't ninjad. Why did you say you were ninjad?

it was a big storm of posting when the game began, i was ninjad with every post at that point.

its not like im lying about being ninjad... what could i gain from that?

He then jumps on an error I made about one of my posts. I mistakenly said that I was ninja'd, when, in fact, I was not. I explained that that was a mistake on my part, that I misremembered what was happening during the opening of the game, but west still finds a 'reason' to scumread me for it.

it felt like we were discussing it at the time that i posted.

So, you weren't ninjad. Why did you say you were ninjad?

it was a big storm of posting when the game began, i was ninjad with every post at that point.

its not like im lying about being ninjad... what could i gain from that?

That post just read to me as an earlygame attempt to look useful while not being at all useful, and your justification for it doesn't persuade me otherwise. Same with this worthless readlist.

VOTE: Vonflare

Then he votes me for this, as well as my "worthless readlist"

This was the first readlist of the game, and he decides it's "worthless". its better than anything he was doing! he was just tunneling me with a weak case.

Much , much later in the game:

Vonflare is still the scummiest player.

Vote: Vonflare

with no new reasoning. His only case against me is that I said "lets scumhunt" too late, and my first readslist was "worthless"

which I point out here:

Lol his entire case against me is "he said 'stop saying shoot me and get down to scumhunting' too late"

then he responds with this:

[quote="In
That's not the whole case:
Readlist was worthless and contributed to the "scum faking useless activity" vibe.
Your response to me asking you a question was an immediate scumread.
Your excuses for that "hey town let's get to work" post were terrible.
Youve clearly been strategically lurking since early D1.

-first readslist of the game, at the start of day 1, is worthless. how do you define the worth of my readslist? I was giving my opinions and gut feelings on the players, and you decide that me sharing my opinions is 'worthless'. Should I not have posted my opinions? Would that have had more 'worth'?

-What? so you are scumreading me because i was scumreading you?

-What does this mean? is he actually implying that i was lying about thinking i was ninja'd? He's just adding random things to the list so that it looks like he has legitimate reasons to scumread me.

-strategically lurking? i post when I can. If i'm not near a computer, I don't post! and, actually, if i's strategically lurking, then

so are you!

I have 60 posts, while you have 41, which is almost 20 more posts then you.

In addition,

VOTE: West9

FOR GREATER JUSTICE!

So, now you'd shoot me instead of CB? That was fast.

Quick post to answer pablito's questions:

I know that I have boring townreads, but I've gotten the most genuine scumhunt-y feeling from CB, RC, and Heartless. Like I said, I wouldn't shoot them.

Top scumreads are Vonflare and PN.

Perpetual nonsense votes for west, then west immediately adds PN to his scumreads. weird.

Also, post where west defends max:

@AA9 - We're getting unofficial vote counts, right? Seems like that hasn't been happening.

Did I ask bad questions about Lucky and Red or is it just that nobody knows them?
More likely to endorse a Lucky shot if those are still the only two candidates.

Just as much as others are suspecting wanderer for not doing scum-hunting, I'm getting Maxwell as being half-assed scum-hunting. Which is why I asked the question of a voting system. If I felt Maxwell was pure town, I'd've wanted Maxwell to actually try to implement something. But I don't get the sense that Maxwell wants that. So prove me wrong Maxwell and force everyone to look at certain players through some type of referendum or focused-voting system.

You lost me here. Are you scumreading everyone who isn't suggesting a voting system? If not, why hold Max up to that standard? Or am I completely misreading this?

[vonflare]

mod,

can you fix the quote in the middle of the post above? it should look like this:

Spoiler:

That's not the whole case:
Readlist was worthless and contributed to the "scum faking useless activity" vibe.
Your response to me asking you a question was an immediate scumread.
Your excuses for that "hey town let's get to work" post were terrible.
Youve clearly been strategically lurking since early D1.

-first readslist of the game, at the start of day 1, is worthless. how do you define the worth of my readslist? I was giving my opinions and gut feelings on the players, and you decide that me sharing my opinions is 'worthless'. Should I not have posted my opinions? Would that have had more 'worth'?

-What? so you are scumreading me because i was scumreading you?

-What does this mean? is he actually implying that i was lying about thinking i was ninja'd? He's just adding random things to the list so that it looks like he has legitimate reasons to scumread me.

-strategically lurking? i post when I can. If i'm not near a computer, I don't post! and, actually, if i's strategically lurking, then

so are you!

I have 60 posts, while you have 41, which is almost 20 more posts then you.

In addition,

VOTE: West9

FOR GREATER JUSTICE!

So, now you'd shoot me instead of CB? That was fast.

[Heartless]

west9's recent posting has actually been pretty awesome so i wouldn't recommend that shot

[vonflare]

Well his case on me is terrible

[Flubbernugget]

@red what makes one compliment to Pablito scummier than another?

[Wanderer-nl]

@Vonflare: ok so that's your defense all in one post. I must say that it does look good from a superficial pov, but I can't help but wonder where the rest of your contribution is. I still stand by that you have not done anything but defend yourself or prodge, and now that it looks like you're getting shot you're finally able to make a case on someone. I'm not convinced yet, I want to see reads on other playeers. I want to know how you feel about the do-not-shoot list, how about the shortlist? Got a little more than 'agree' or 'don't agree' for us?

[Flubbernugget]

That defense was awful and it came after Pablito said he was shifting attention to lurkers

[West9]

It really is an awful defense.

West starts the game jumping on the fact that I said "Can we stop the 'shoot meeeeee' shenanigans and get down to scumhunting?". He says that this is scummy becuase "There was a while between the last "shoot me" post and this one". It looks a lot like he was trying to find something to scumread me about. this is a weak case, if not just made-up.

You know, I've been asked about this before, and I answered it:

Spoiler:

My thinking on vonflare is that people are making too much of the ninja kerfuffle, as I can't see how that matters, but whatever.

Here's my perspective on Vonflare: the whole "hey, guys, you should stop asking to be shot and start scumhunting!" comment was really irrelevant at the time he made it, which makes me suspect that he's trying to do a whole "fake town rallying voice" thing (I also get a similar insincere "here, let me help the town get it's act together!" vibe from his readlist).

It is ridiculously scummy and desperate that you didn't include this in your ISO-bomb of me.

He then jumps on an error I made about one of my posts. I mistakenly said that I was ninja'd, when, in fact, I was not. I explained that that was a mistake on my part

It was not a mistake, and you did not explain that. You lied because you didn't think I'd check the timing.

Then he votes me for this, as well as my "worthless readlist"

This was the first readlist of the game, and he decides it's "worthless". its better than anything he was doing! he was just tunneling me with a weak case.

You know, I've been asked about this before, and I answered it:

Spoiler:

That post just read to me as an earlygame attempt to look useful while not being at all useful, and your justification for it doesn't persuade me otherwise. Same with this worthless readlist.

How is that readlist worthless? when most haven't even posted one - which is more worthless than a readlist that is apparently worthless?

Because Vonflare himself said it was worthless (222). Also, it's not like options are confined "post a readlist" or "don't post a readlist."

It is ridiculously scummy and desperate that you didn't include this in your ISO-bomb of me.

That's not the whole case:
Readlist was worthless and contributed to the "scum faking useless activity" vibe.
Your response to me asking you a question was an immediate scumread.
Your excuses for that "hey town let's get to work" post were terrible.
Youve clearly been strategically lurking since early D1.

1) first readslist of the game, at the start of day 1, is worthless. how do you define the worth of my readslist? I was giving my opinions and gut feelings on the players, and you decide that me sharing my opinions is 'worthless'. Should I not have posted my opinions? Would that have had more 'worth'?

2)What? so you are scumreading me because i was scumreading you?

3)What does this mean? is he actually implying that i was lying about thinking i was ninja'd? He's just adding random things to the list so that it looks like he has legitimate reasons to scumread me.

4)strategically lurking? i post when I can. If i'm not near a computer, I don't post! and, actually, if i's strategically lurking, then

so are you!

I have 60 posts, while you have 41, which is almost 20 more posts then you.

1) See above.
2) Finally, you find a legitimate thing that I haven't clarified. This point should read "Your response to me asking you a question was an immediate scumread instead of answering the question."
3) You know, I've been asked about this before, and blah blah blah blah blah

Spoiler:

When I questioned him on why he thought it was relevant, he did three things. A) Immediately scumread me B) Said that he was ninjad and C) said that he thought the current discussion was still about the whole "shoot me" thing.

Being ninjad for twenty straight minutes seems false enough, but even if it's true, being ninjad at all doesn't excuse an irrelevant comment, especially when you consider this definition of ninjaing that Nacho gave:

One question: what is 'being ninjad'?

whenever you post and then the forum is like "someone else already posted! would you like to post something else now that you see their post?"

B and C can't coexist as excuses, so I don't think either of them are true.

4) You're being silly.

[West9]

Shit, I missed some things.

Much , much later in the game:

Vonflare is still the scummiest player.

Vote: Vonflare

with no new reasoning. His only case against me is that I said "lets scumhunt" too late, and my first readslist was "worthless"

Did some timeline research.
314 is when I give a full explanation of my read on you.
624 is the quote you give, where I provide "no new reasoning."
Now, here are the posts you made in that 310 post interval:

Spoiler:

Prodge

I like coyotes 375 and maxwells response in 377, they look town.

Heartless, why do you think maxwell and coyote are scum?

Hey, I was busy over the long weekend. What did I miss?

ok victor is the new king.

Who are your scumreads?

Beetlejuice

ITS SHOWTIME!

This was the weak shit you "contributed" during that time. Nothing here could possible have made you think "West sure will need to re-evaluate his read on me after I post this!"

In addition,

VOTE: West9

FOR GREATER JUSTICE!

So, now you'd shoot me instead of CB? That was fast.

Quick post to answer pablito's questions:

I know that I have boring townreads, but I've gotten the most genuine scumhunt-y feeling from CB, RC, and Heartless. Like I said, I wouldn't shoot them.

Top scumreads are Vonflare and PN.

Perpetual nonsense votes for west, then west immediately adds PN to his scumreads. weird.

I

totally

agree with you that context if for pussies, but wow. First of all, the word "immediately" is pretty misleading, given that there were, like, 150 posts in between the two quotes of mine that you present. And also, you completely cut out this exchange to make my "you're voting for me and that's weird" comment look defensive:

Spoiler:

Julian and PN would probably round out my shotlist. I liked Heartless' point on PN, and 531 is bad.

WE do hope that the person you want to be shot is on the left.
WE already know who WE will shoot if WE get the gun.

Who?

WE do hope that the person you want to be shot is on the left.
WE already know who WE will shoot if WE get the gun.

Who?

Right now, WE would shoot CB.

WE do hope that the person you want to be shot is on the left.
WE already know who WE will shoot if WE get the gun.

Who?

Right now, WE would shoot CB.

Why? (pedit - ninjad)
And the first quote says a different thing than the latest one. You already know not only that you WOULD shoot him, but also that you WILL shoot him?

WE do hope that the person you want to be shot is on the left.
WE already know who WE will shoot if WE get the gun.

Who?

Other head believes PoE places CB as scum, along with the others listed. WE are definitely thinking OUR scumreads are leaning scum, based off more than PoE. The dreaded Gut reads! WE don't feel our reads are perfect or accurate, since with all the lurking there are interactions WE are not sure of. Plus, WE had to Rush to our explanations! Funniest thing of the day is Gaiden explaining how to spot Associative tells! That guy's got some BRAIN!

VOTE: West9

FOR GREATER JUSTICE!

Why is CB being townread, again? look below, where he doesn't clarify the good and the bad he sees in each player.

Yes he does. That post is an update of a previous readslist (337) and everything that is different in this readlist is cleanly explained.

And if you think he's being townread for shitty reasons, that's fine, but how does that by itself turn into a scumread?

Following the crowd with the Von read first, and then US. I Do like that you initiated discussions with US earlier. But you have settled on the three 'Easiest' targets. All with considerable amount of pressure on them. No bueno!

Buddy, the CROWD has been following ME on this Vonflare scumread, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Nice try at a misrep, though.
And I'm not hiding the fact that those other scumreads started from me following the crowd. I like what the crowd has been saying regarding yourself and Julian.

VOTE: West9

FOR GREATER JUSTICE!

So, now you'd shoot me instead of CB? That was fast.

^This, admittedly, is a skimmed version of the exchange, because I responded to some things they didn't direct at me, but still. The point is that vonflare hates context and that's super lame.

Also, post where west defends max:

@AA9 - We're getting unofficial vote counts, right? Seems like that hasn't been happening.

Did I ask bad questions about Lucky and Red or is it just that nobody knows them?
More likely to endorse a Lucky shot if those are still the only two candidates.

Just as much as others are suspecting wanderer for not doing scum-hunting, I'm getting Maxwell as being half-assed scum-hunting. Which is why I asked the question of a voting system. If I felt Maxwell was pure town, I'd've wanted Maxwell to actually try to implement something. But I don't get the sense that Maxwell wants that. So prove me wrong Maxwell and force everyone to look at certain players through some type of referendum or focused-voting system.

You lost me here. Are you scumreading everyone who isn't suggesting a voting system? If not, why hold Max up to that standard? Or am I completely misreading this?

Do you have any point to make about this post or...?

[Kari]

vonflare flailing makes me laugh.

[Heartless]

Well his case on me is terrible

summarize this game's mechanic in a sentence.

[Heartless]

I like coyotes 375 and maxwells response in 377, they look town.

Heartless, why do you think maxwell and coyote are scum?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

:\

:/

:\

yeah, i was thinking about vonflare being such a popular target and that was kinda' bothering me, but there's little things like this that just get me

[RedCoyote]

I like coyotes 375 and maxwells response in 377, they look town.

Heartless, why do you think maxwell and coyote are scum?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

:\

:/

:\

yeah, i was thinking about vonflare being such a popular target and that was kinda' bothering me, but there's little things like this that just get me

You guys are so confirmed town. I'm sorry I ever doubted y'all.

Flubber, once again, I have no idea what the heck you are talking about. Are you always so cryptic? Why does everything you say have to be a riddle?

[Kari]

coyote, are you town? i hope so, bc you seem town.

[RedCoyote]

You better believe it, darlin.

[Heartless]

Are you drunk? What a coincidence! I am too!

[RedCoyote]

Are you drunk? What a coincidence! I am too!

How can you tell? Because I'm posting??? XD

[Heartless]

Because you said "ya'll," your questions to Flubber are rambling, and you called Kari "darlin'."

[RedCoyote]

TTH, me and you are going to have to play some more. I think I like you more with every post. <3

[MonkeyMan576]

Flirting = Scum:P. Let's get back to scumhunting!

[Heartless]

Would you like to start us off then, Monkeyman?

[RedCoyote]

No worries, I'm going to be watching Hell's Kitchen here in a few minutes. MM, how about you defend vonflare/Flubber then, hm? I'm trying to get my man pab to shoot these guys... so you calling me scum I take it you like them?

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber, once again, I have no idea what the heck you are talking about. Are you always so cryptic? Why does everything you say have to be a riddle?

You could have just answered the question. I'd rather have a discussion than a lecture.

The bottom line is if heartless's town reads are expressing a similar behavior as their scum reads then something is wrong. Unless you also believe that I can't put good faith in a gunbearer with differing reads than me, or take heavy stock in meta.