Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame

[Soft-spoken]

why TF is everything bright now... someone turn off the lights

http://puu.sh/irRmF/9780902798.png

[Soft-spoken]

boycotting MS until it stops hurting my eyes

peace nerds

[Natirasha]

Computer broke and I have to wait overnight to get the parts.

I'm also not masochistic enough to phonepost, sorry.

[YurikoJasmine]

you guys are posting so fast I can barely catch up :/ trying to read.

[sangres]

2) i don't find, in general terms, that disagreeing over a key read is something i would push someone on, and even less so this early in the game.

I think this is very very much a difference in playstyle; I've become a fervent believer of pushing someone on differences in reads after that newbie game we keep referencing. It helps me refine my own reads, and it makes it a lot more difficult for certain players to make those pushes they need to make to win the game as scum.

[sangres]

Yeah.

Could be faked but I doubt it.

i am perfectly capable of faking that FTR...

but, no... that was a townslip

the bolded made me a lot more comfortable with the townslip than I would be otherwise, and I find Soft's posting in general pretty great

[sangres]

#367 was pretty underwhelming as an assessment of the first 5 pages. I really don't like how he responds to sangres' question, it wasn't even directed at him. Padded out by a response to a joke by molla and a response to a post of mine that's already been thoroughly discussed, the whole thing reads like scum trying to look busy. There's not any actual scumhunting. Also don't like how he says he'll read pages 6-15 and then drops that as well, think he's afraid of people cottoning on if he puts out even more fluff. Last thing is that the abrupt change of tone in #410 is also a bit weird, oh and the fact that he hasn't explained any of his townreads and hasn't declared any scumreads at all.

If Soft-Spoken is a scum player who is skilled enough to drop a fake townslip as organically as he would have had to done here, I'm pretty confident he's a scum player who can manage to fake reads. This case assumes that Soft's scum game is actually a pile of garbage, but Soft's ISO if scum would most definitely not be that

[Quilford]

Hmm, that's true.

[Quilford]

In my defense, case was made before the slip.

[pieguyn]

I think this is very very much a difference in playstyle; I've become a fervent believer of pushing someone on differences in reads after that newbie game we keep referencing.

wahaha

[pieguyn]

I'm still trying to figure out what I make of Quil vs. S-S.

I agree with most of what S-S is posting. if he was "try hard scum", as Quil is saying, then it would make more sense that he would actually read the whole game, or pull up more than 3 quotes, or do anything that actually ... you know, requires trying hard. 605 also completely misses S-S' point (that Quil conveniently dropped that S-S' posts were "genuine" after he got accused of it being disingenuous), which I also agree with.

I also hate Quil's insistence that S-S is "agreeing" with him in 613. it's pretty obvious what S-S is saying there is that if he was scum he'd try to make a more effortful post than the one he made *in this game*; not that he'd try to make more effortful posts in general.

on the other hand, I disagree that Quil-town would need to unvote S-S at the point where he thought S-S was genuine. you'll notice my vote is still on GB despite reading them as town (lol). most of the time, if I don't have someone I feel strongly that I want to push/lynch, I don't care about where my vote is. if I scum read him, it wouldn't be for this.

@Quil:

when did you supposedly "reread" S-S and why did you not mention it when you did so (since I don't remember you posting anything along the lines of "I looked at S-S again, I think I was wrong" until right at this point. correct me if I'm wrong)? also would like to know your thoughts on what I said in the 3rd paragraph here.

[Regfan]

Just got home from origin and for some reason don't have net on my computer so I'll have to get to this tomorrow when I get that fixed after work then.

Also sorry for this bein on the wrong account but the pw I'm trying for gb on my phones not working, hopefully empire pops online and can quote it.

[Gold Saucer]

I do think people getting on my back about halting my Soft push are conspiracy theorising. Uh no, I think all my early points are valid, I think the slip is eminently fakeable (and am definitely going to look into it more when I'm not on my phone) and I don't like Soft's reaction to whomever posted that he likes making scummy entrances for the purposes of getting people's reactions (again will elaborate later). I still don't think he's scumhunted at all and I think the reasoning he gave for his townreads was weak.

Thinking my sigh was me not being able to conceal my irritation that another mislynch had escaped me is hilariously stupid. In actuality, it was because I was worried about adding another townread to an already large pile.

Starting to get a bit wary of GB.

In what regard?

-b

[Gold Saucer]

Why would scum even bother to make a post that contains shit all if they didn't think they would get points for at least looking like they were doing something? Especially valid in your case considering it was already a couple pages in and it was your first post of the game that wouldn't be longer than two sentences or something.

You're begging the question here by assuming that he's scum and then attributing motivation here
Unless you think 'tryharding' (which feels just like a loaded phrase) is a thing that only scum would do?
Or that "posting a post" is some sort of tell because that's all you really seem to accuse him of doing here

I don't know this whole thing presupposes SS is scum and I don't understand why you're doing that

-b

[YurikoJasmine]

mod: V/LA till Friday.

I'll be accessing through my phone, just that I may not be able to give comprehensive posts.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I'm doing a 6-hour online CLE seminar so I won't be around much today. Just came around to let you all know.

Regfan's post:

Just got home from origin and for some reason don't have net on my computer so I'll have to get to this tomorrow when I get that fixed after work then.

Also sorry for this bein on the wrong account but the pw I'm trying for gb on my phones not working, hopefully empire pops online and can quote it.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Like 10 pages behind. Reading some time tonight.

-Nati

[sangres]

I'm still trying to figure out what I make of Quil vs. S-S.

What are your reads on them individually?

[Soft-spoken]

In my defense, case was made before the slip.

yet you returned to grinding away at it afterward... in a rather illogical manner.

[pieguyn]

What are your reads on them individually?

I had S-S town based on the town slip and his other posts around that time. the Quil interaction strengthened it.

Quil is one of the few ppl in this game I don't have some form of town read on. however, outside of the S-S push, I haven't found anything he's done so far scummy. you?

[Gold Saucer]

I'm catching up, but I'm stupid tired and have a seminar to attend tomorrow, so there's a very high chance I fall asleep mid-catch up.

[Phenenas]

Vote Count 1.1

YurikoJasmine - 2 (Rancid Broderick Drake, BBmolla)
pieguyn - 1 (Gentlemen Bastards)
Soft-spoken - 1 (Quilford)
Gentlemen Bastards - 1 (pieguyn)
Rancid Broderick Drake - 1 (sangres)
Quilford - 1 (Soft-spoken)

Not Voting: YurikoJasmine, Gold Saucer

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Gold Saucer]

I got distracted and am still mid catch up but I kinda want to lynch kurikojaz...need to see what bork says.

[sangres]

my urge to lynch her rises with every prod dodge, but sorting RBD is our priority. Can't really think in full sentences outside that objective right now.

Could be the wine, maybe.

[Gold Saucer]

I'm tired and I've been pretty much marathonning heroes of the storm this week but:

I kinda feel like this is becoming a game of pointing at each other from across the lake as the initial warmth of the hope that the big players in this game might all be town wears off. I think something needs to happen.

I've seldom been in a game where I'm just not inclined to move in any direction because people have given me a number of reasons for early townreads or haven't really shown up. As I write this I don't know that I can quantify my reads in any meaningful way.

I want to bank the soft-spoken read or at least not consider him -- that slip was really fluid and I think you kinda have to be in a mindset
Ffery in particular is really setting off my towndar with her attitude and engagement level. I don't know that I agree with the reasons for Nacho's push on RBD; I had it in my head that a lot of people were willing to pressure pie for the argument earlier and Nacho both 1) picked RBD arbitrarily to push on and 2) is holding RBD to a standard I don't know that I would hold myself to even with players I play with all the time. Pie's changed my perspective on 1) a bit and I'm trying to reevaluate the whole situation.

Most of my other null-to mid townreads either amount to [looks like they're attempting to legitimately scumhunt] (GB, Pie*), Haven't really done anything scummy yet (BBMolla, RBD), seemed to be thinking/saying the stuff that I was thinking about things right as they happened (Quilford - this was a read I really wanted to take to the bank early game and now I don't and I don't know that anything really changed from him over that period; my emotional state and perception of people's arguments changed)

*Pie gets a star because I reread 230. I really feel that's a town post. I wasn't planning on typing that when I started this post - it was mostly based on 168 and how that emotional response was more subdued than I've seen from her in some town games that I have been rereading (Xenosaga being the prime [ok only] example). But 230 reads really town.

Tammy wants Yuriko right now and I'm inclined to agree. It's mostly lack of content, this game isn't really that big, it's been nearly a week, and I know she's not siteflaking; I don't want to call it PoE because my other reads are clustered too close to the same spot in the spectrum to really say "look, these guys are all in a clear townland that I'm not gonna touch so scum is whoever isn't there". I don't have the precision I need to do that right now.

I might expect GB to bring up the 'thread avoidance thing' here from Yuriko as Pie got but half a day before she got accused of it, but Yuriko's had nearly a week and I only see a push from GB on Yuriko from the PoE angle. It's not really relevant from the point of a read on Yuriko as they're scumreading Yuriko even without making that point but it makes the push on pie seem less sincere.

I am probably going to reread the whole game - I hope this gives me the clarity that I need to sort some of the people in that null-town area. This got more stream of consciousness than I wanted and as such is really disorganized but I wanted people to know that 1) I'm struggling right now and 2) why I feel that's the case.

But still, if not only for entropy's sake:
VOTE: Yuriko

-b