In post 657, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:I think you stating that you're pushing him because you can see how the stance he took would be beneficial to scum is very harsh (Especially since this logic could be in turn applied to your push on him being very beneficial as scum) and ignores how it all transpired?
It is very harsh, that's completely the point. I don't see why the logic being able to be applied to my push matters. I didn't ignore how it all transpired: I understand the argument hadn't happened yet, but it didn't really take too much perception to realize that it was coming. I don't know what else I'm ignoring.
In post 658, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:The solving-the-game part, I guess. So uh. Everything? What have you actually done as of this post? I don't even think you have a scum read outside of me.
The scumteam I was operating with earlier was you-Yuriko. I still think Yuriko is scum, but I'm not at all interested in pushing her today.
In post 658, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:I didn't need to do anything as scum there if an argument was inevitably going to break out (I could have, for example, just refrained from commenting on it, which is probably what I would have done if I actually were scum - at least until an argument was actually happening) - nothing I said there could have possibly influenced anyone's opinion on that post.
Good point.
I disagree with you that there weren't sides to take at that point. I don't think Pie's 122 was universally town, I think it was town for people who know pie and definitely wouldn't expect Empire/Regfan to recognize why it was town during a knee-jerk reaction.
I also want to clarify that your push would be advantageous for scum not because you'd be reinforcing a bad read on Regfan, but because of the effect it would have on pieguy.
In post 660, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:I sincerely doubt bbMolla is scum. I don't think he's a good enough player to say some of the things he's said in this game in the manner he's said them as scum. In particular, the string of posts that started at #200 is a big part of where my town read on him comes from. If Yuriko is scum, this is even more the case. I think his play in general looks pretty unreserved and a lot of his posts have clicked with me.
In post 660, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:I would feel better about him if I'd liked any of the pushes he's done this game but uh... outside the gentlemen push and some issue he brought up with me, I don't actually think he's made any pushes.
Two things that I feel weird about wrt pieguy were his interactions with me and the way he's approaching Quilford-Softspoken (especially the weird half push on Quilford). I don't think Quilford's reasons for pushing S-S were particularly strong, sure, but they did feel genuine most of the way through.
In post 669, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:What it looks like to me is Nacho going "hey, I'm gonna push muffin" and her going "OK, I'll support you if I see an opportunity..." or something along those lines. Which would explained the half-assed meta argument and the angle she's pushing with regards to my reaction to pieguy v you compared to bork's (where one happened before it was actually a thing and the other happened after...)
You're absolutely correct that Ffery's support of me is forced; I have a strong scum read on someone for reasons that are not incredibly compelling, she doesn't. She does see the use in hard-pushing a player like you out of the gate, and she agrees with the sentiment behind the push, and so she supports. The difference between her supporting here and her supporting scum-me's push is that she lets how uncomfortable she is leak into thread pretty obviously, whereas if she was scum she would be uncomfortable because she doesn't like being scum and then suck it up.
In post 677, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Pieguyn reading that and coming to the realization just felt like the right thing at the right time and I don't think she'd have backed off at this point if scum (she'd have probably done it earlier or not at all).
In post 692, Gold Saucer wrote:Nacho - what, in this post, was muffin supposed to town read pieguy for? And why is it not likely for him to think it's an overreaction and scummy, especially considering he was concerned about pieguy before this post?
my initial thoughts re: that push was that it was a strange line in the sand (and a horribly horribly horribly horribly early one) for pieguy to draw. when you make a push like that as scum, you're putting all of your eggs, all of your hopes and dreams, into a basket. when you push a player like that as scum, they will scum read you pretty much every time, and it's very very hard to make that suspicion go away after you make a push like that, especially after you give up your power after being inevitably forced to town read the slot. these risks are compounded exponentially with the setup. if you do successfully mislynch them by some stupid, stupid, miracle they are still alive forever to fuck you over. if you get them to give you a little space, fucking sucks for you because can't kill them the first night and killing them in the second is a massive waste. I didn't think pieguy would be willing to take a massive risk as scum so early.
In post 692, Gold Saucer wrote:I think I'm perfectly capable of reaching out to someone as scum, and I think you know that's within my range as scum. I think there are some better reasons and some other better but more subtle that pointed to us being town at that point.
I'll admit I didn't put much effort into reading your slot when I made that post, wasn't really worried about he two of you at that point in time since Bork looked town enough.
I also didn't read you as town because it was unfakeable or anything, just liked it. Was enjoyable.
In post 266, pieguyn wrote:I swear to fuck Nacho, if you're buddying me right now I'm personally driving all the way to Chicago and punching you in the face. fortunately, I think you're just town.
I almost wish I was scum right now just so I could thoroughly enjoy watching as Regfan expends all his effort trying to lynch me and fails. ~
This post sounded kinda town.
I'm not sure she's this cheeky as scum.
(Though my scum dream team wonders if they're scum buddying each other. I don't really believe this, but it's crossed my mind.)
Home for a bit, only a few beers in but just getting started, fuck yeah Friday nights!
I'm catching up and then I'll get around to Pies meta games.
@ Muffin -
I think Empires seeing your Molla read more than I am - I've certainly liked a few of his posts particularly things like Post 256, Post 419 (I think he'd be more likely to 'manipulate' this tell if he thought I believed it as mafia rather than correct it), Post 464, Post 473 and Post 497 of his read town to me. Actually after going over his ISO again and listing those posts I'm more confident in Molla town than before. I still want more content and stances from him though.
Willing to wait on your Quilford read more once you've gone through and ISO'ed him but consider this a reminder to get around to that.
I can kind of get where you're coming from re; fferry and her read on you but the way I've been reading is that she herself is not at all comfortable with the way that Nachos going about it, his confident or his reasoning behind it and has attempted to get him to elaborate on it more so she can understand it - her discomfort with his push actually reads really town which is uber frustrating since if I were reading her posts alone they'd be towntowntowtowntown but ignoring her play we'd quite possibly be considering voting Nacho right now. All up we think they're still probably town but yeah I want Nachos explanation.
Spoiler: @Nacho - Questions I want answered are in the posts below:
In post 659, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:@Muffin - Ignore Nacho for a minute. Nacho can properly explain the following when he gets to laptop; a) What he's currently reading town about Pieguy, b) What he read town at the time of that post, c) How that leads into a scum-read on you, d) What and why he strongly disagrees with the arguments brought up against Pie when he gets to a laptop. Really hoping that'll clear up a lot there because I'm really not getting his push on you either. For now I'd much rather you focus eleswhere, what's your reads on the rest of the playerlist and some reasoning behind it would be tops. Also your read on Fferrys posts too.
In post 426, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:@Nacho - Now that RBD has responded I'd like you to go into proper detail on two things for me a) Your overall town read on Pie (Consisting of all of his posts) as well as commenting on the reasons I am/was scum-reading him for and how you don't find them relevant, b) Your town read on Pie at the point Muffin had stopped posting earlier on (Back when the argument initially started). I'm happy to wait till when you get a computer if it means you really going into this well since I've actually disliked most of your posts re; Pie/RBD and Empire and I have both had a huge issue following your thought process here.
Can you run me through the RBD vote? Also I wouldn't vote either of RBD or Sangres right now, leaning town on the both of them - having to pick between voting inside of two town reads is p stupid especially when the strength of both of them are about equal right now.
PEdit: Okay
1) What is your overall town read on Pie based around?
2) What
specifically
did you read town about Pies intially post - added section which
specific
part of it did you expect Muffin to read as town?
3) What about my reasoning behind Pie being scum did you disagree with?
Also added question; your recent posts seem to have
everyone
in the game as town other than Yuriko effectively yet you don't want to lynch her in Post 752 - going to have to explain that to me and then explain who you do want to lynch and why.
Oh man I should not be making posts while drinking and having people over, I missed the Pie vote entirely (Not sure how it didn't come up on PEdit).
Nacho you can ignore #1 now - instead run me through your whole read on Pie and how she changed from "obvious as fuck town" to being your vote, the deeper you can run me through your thought process on her the better essentially.
In post 730, sangres wrote:In trying to answer this, I'm finding myself rambling. Basically, I don't know much more about Nacho's reasons than you or anyone else besides Nacho himself. he thinks RBD is scum, and sort of like I would do if any player I respected came out with scumread out of the blue, I have been looking for why - what triggered the read, and looking at their play really hard for things that might be scum-indicative. I'm looking harder than I otherwise would at this point if I were playing strictly within my own head. And I've thrown into the thread those things that I've independently found questionable.
I think that's all I ever really wanted from you.
I know that I'm really going back and forth with you guys this game but 730 looks very, very town to me.
I think the Nacho/Pie scum-team crack-pot theory (It's something I've considered a little too, mostly because the lack of real explanation behind the town read on Pie and delay on it from Nacho seems similar to how he handled F-16 in Josh Whelan but it's weakened significantly by the fact that Nacho can't just be planning on N1'ing me and getting away without going into it in this game given the mechanic so he'd know full wel he'd have to get around to it) is much more likely than Nacho/Muffin cross-bussing which I really really really doubt here. We're tossing up something like Yuriko/Pie (We think Pies huge attack against us makes a
lot
of sense if we initially nailed the scum-team and most people were already on the right track and similarly I've disliked Pies stances and reasoning on Yuriko) or Yuriko/Quilford (I'm not sold on this being Town!Quilford yet and I dislike his stance on Yuriko too) being the most likely scum-teams at the moment in order of most to least likely. We're p much wanting to lynch in Yuriko/Pie depending on what I get from the meta read (Empires told me a few things that make this seem like Pies scum meta though specifically re; the Serum game though I think using multi-ball for meta is iffy).
PEdit: Agree, I've found almost every mention that Fferrys made of her stance re; Nachos read and push as supertown.
people saying I "haven't scum hunted much" recently are mostly correct. if you must know, my father got laid off on Monday, which has put me in a really awful place mentally. I hardly have any motivation to play right now. there is also the fact that I haven't had any strong scum reads at all recently - I have some reason to call most of the people in this game town (and I thought at this point Quil might be scum but I'd like to see what he does when he gets back and, at this point, read the game Nacho linked).
there's a fucking reason I declared permanent LA. I don't care if you call this "ATE" or whatever, it's not.
