Mini 1687: Refraction Mafia (WINNER!)

[texcat]

EBWOP:

Lapsa, I don't think I'm following all of your wagon switches. I thought you had some good points in your case on Mathdino. You even had some reasons for

Chulthu

CB. But these recent hops to Zor and Thor look a little random to me.

[CB]

--------------------
Zoro
I actually missed the part where Thor asked Zoro to comment on his case 136 which makes me seem a lot less scummy. Also if he was mafia I don't think he would base all his reads on that fact that I am mafia. It would be an unlikely lense to look at the game through with perfect information.


Question:
Could you walk me through your early game Lapsa read?
89- You give a reason to scum read Lapsa for not contributing and making jokey nonsense posts but you say at that point it is too early to scum read him for that.
117 127 133- By this point you have a town read? What had changed from post 89 to these ones?
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UNVOTE:

The reason for the previous conversation with plotinus and shinobi was to judge if they're scum or omgus'y.
I got my answer.

The reason I poked plotinus, about him voting for lapsa was to see if he was newbish or scum. Because his vote was fishy.

The inconsistency of the explanation when describing his earlier action gives credence to the fact he was acting busy for the sake of looking busy.

246- A read list with his biggest scum read being null, with a slight scum lean- Very scummy why does someone even put out a readlist if they don't have any hard scum reads yet? to look towny.

249-Throws scum and undercuts the credibility of a townread - scum tactic.

Zoro's tone of posting has changed completely from the impression i got from him at the beginning. At first he gave the aura of self confidence, and was pushing stuff, attacking people, now he looks more like a lapdog. Not sure what would make it happen. Also vote is still on me, even though he hasn't said anything to or about me in like 10 pages.

I didn't get this feeling at all he has felt consistent to me and it was pretty clear he was looking to move his vote. I think this is scum fabricating a reason to jump on a wagon

VOTE: Abuse
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Hi Thor,

You wanna fight?

Beginning of the game you wrote this. Why?

Kind of where I am at right now I have only skimmed the last couple of pages though:
Town: Frogger, Texcat
Scum Lean: Math, Abuse
Scum: Plot, Zoro

I will say just based on some interaction between the people on my list there is for sure town in my scum reads right now since I don't see a lot of those people as scum partners. So I don't feel too confident about them right now.

Yeah, you're right. Take Plot and Zoro out of your scum reads. Probably Math as well.

Why do you think Mathdino is town now?

[Plotinus]

Also if [Zoro] was mafia I don't think he would base all his reads on that fact that I am mafia. It would be an unlikely lense to look at the game through with perfect information.

Can you explain more about what you mean by this? I’m having trouble understanding the first sentence.

[CB]

Also if [Zoro] was mafia I don't think he would base all his reads on that fact that I am mafia. It would be an unlikely lense to look at the game through with perfect information.

Can you explain more about what you mean by this? I’m having trouble understanding the first sentence.

Townreads Lapsa because Lapsa scumreads me.
Townreads you because he agreed with your push on me
Scumreads CD because he could be with me.

They are all framed in that I am mafia.

[Aeronaut]

VC 1.9

VoteCount 1.9

Mathdino

-

Cthulhu Dreaming

(L-6)

toolenduso

-

texcat

(L-6)

CB -

Mathdino

(L-6)

Cthulhu Dreaming -

Zoronos

(L-6)

Thor665 -

BlueBloodedToffee, Fro99er, Lapsa

(L-4)

Shinobi -

texcat -

Plotinus

[/size] -

Shinobi

(L-6)

Fro99er

-

toolenduso

(L-6)

BlueBloodedToffee -

abuse

-

CB

(L-6)

Lapsa

-

Zoronos

-

Thor665, abuse

(L-5)

Not Voting

-

Plotinus

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-06-28 23:00:32)

toolenduso is V/LA until Monday
Abuse will be V/LA until until Wednesday

[Aeronaut]

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[Aeronaut]

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(also, Just a reminder, one week till deadline)

[Plotinus]

Hi Bella!

[Zoronos]

Question:
Could you walk me through your early game Lapsa read?
89- You give a reason to scum read Lapsa for not contributing and making jokey nonsense posts but you say at that point it is too early to scum read him for that.
117 127 133- By this point you have a town read? What had changed from post 89 to these ones?

I didn't have a scum read in 89; I was trying to orient people on how to handle the 'VT crumbz omg wtf bbq!' situation, because that discussion was dumb. I was also trying to make clear that wasn't *my* read on the situation. I apparently failed at that.

I didn't have a town read in 117-133. I had a null read. I was trying to draw Lapsa into participating by getting him to vote on somebody, and then to talk about why.

[Zoronos]

Also if [Zoro] was mafia I don't think he would base all his reads on that fact that I am mafia. It would be an unlikely lense to look at the game through with perfect information.

Can you explain more about what you mean by this? I’m having trouble understanding the first sentence.

Townreads Lapsa because Lapsa scumreads me.
Townreads you because he agreed with your push on me
Scumreads CD because he could be with me.

They are all framed in that I am mafia.

In fairness, I think it is quite possible for CD to be mafia separate from you. His case on MathDino was bad, and under questioning he had no other reads and didn't explain that read any.
His connection to you was just a happy bonus.

[Thor665]

You're right, you're not the only one who doesn't have a read on Lapsa. But, then again, you are alone in hardly engaging/commenting on most of the player base outside of your pushes on Math and Zor.

That is provably untrue.

Lapsa also isn't just sheeping anyone else, they're sheeping you. So you have some sort of foundation for which you can use to gain a read on him but you haven't taken it.

I don't think that's a valid foundation at all.
But, now he's sheeping you - so I look forward to you showing me how it's done.

I'm taking umbrage with you seemingly being unwilling to interact/engage/develop reads on anyone outside of your pushes.

Yes, other than my multiple scum reads and multiple town reads I am not offering any reads.

What?

tl;dr: Smurf everyone who thinks I should be lynched for being bad at scumhunting off the bat.

No one is making that argument.

BBT is correct that you're focusing on literally no one else.

That is correct, I am focused on lynching the person I am voting for at any given moment.
How utterly strange.

This is me speaking to you as a player, do you actually have no other reads that I can work with?

I have offered MANY reads.
How the hell are so many people not noticing them?

I can think of three players that I have not offered opinions on at this stage. Tool, Texcat, and Abuse.
I *have* offered a read on Lapsa, but some people whine that it isn't alignment based. But, sure, let's toss him in there.
That's 4 players out of 12. That is *hardly* avoiding giving reads even in a whiny way. I bet I could easily offer up 4 players who have made LESS reads than me.

So, seriously - WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SCUMBOI? One person being too derp to notice this is silly, but fine. Another person sheeping it like this? That's scummy - so, please, offer me your explanation of the lack of reads I've offered.
Be specific.
Hint: primarily attacking two players does not remotely equate to offering a lack of reads. It does equate to offering a lack of opportunism...oh, wait, that doesn't sound scummy, does it?

[Thor665]

And, actually, I think I did offer a read on Abuse, I was just guarded about it - maybe it's Shinobi I haven't offered a read on? There's at least three methinks.

[Bellaphant]

Hi All,

I've skim-read, any key points? Not sure what to make of Frog v Plot and Zor/Thor/Math...Zor isn't giving me town vibes by locking in on this (it's more...usual for Thor, I guess) and I'm not feeling obv-town about Plot like I usually do, and her reads-list is bit off, but the self-analysis post is better.

Lapsa, and Abuse to a certain extent, make me go o.0

Does anyone have any strong feelings on Tex/Tool that they want to share?

UNVOTE: math for now.

[Thor665]

Let's see, playerlist;

1. Mathdino* (I think no one will argue I haven't offered reads here, even the blind are claiming I have.)
2. toolenduso - (no read offered)
3. CB (I sheeped him and have asked him multiple questions - feel free to try to puzzle out my highly secretive read)
4. Bellaphant Cthulhu Dreaming
6. Shinobi- (I have asked him multiple questions and considered his opinion while trying to steer him gently off lynches - feel free to try to divine my read of him.)
7. texcat - (no read offered)
8. Plotinus (My own read on him is 'slight town' at best. But no scum lean there at all.)
9. Fro99er (not explicitly stated but I have defended him a handful of times and asked his opinions on things - feel free to try to work your head around my read)
10. BlueBloodedToffee (He lurked and I have aggressively interacted with him since he reappeared - I'll agree that I never stated a read on him, but I'm currently leaning town vbecause I don't think scum him would bother attacking me)
11. abuse (read offered - "Abuse I probably lean slight town on at this point which I think is where I was at last time I was asked on him, and if not that's where I am now.")
12. Lapsa (I have called him annoying, offered the willingness to lynch him, and have noted that his playstyle is not alignment indicative)
13. Zoronos (I think no one will argue I haven't offered reads here, even the blind are claiming I have.)


Yup, a universe of hidden reads, right there.
Oh - and every single clearly stated read was offered *immediately* after someone asked me for my opinion on that player.
Because, y'know, my scum goal is to not offer reads and be all secretive about my thoughts.

[Thor665]

Oh, Cthulu was a lean scum read - made pretty clear by my raised issues with how he joined the wagon.
Noted here - Though I did gain a sudden surprise join from Cthulhu.

[Fro99er]

snippy snip.

Bella!!! <3

I'm going to catch up here late tonight. It's been a busy weekend.

[Bellaphant]

Oh yay, Thor slightly scum-reads my slot. But that reads-list actually makes me feel better about the slot.

[Thor665]

Why?

That reads list is as empty as any other reads list any other player offers up! It's votes that make reads matter. Not words. Actions.

[Thor665]

Like, people are clear and understanding of my read on Zor and Mathdino.

There is a reason why they act clear on those. And it's because they are clear. Most of he other votes in this game are empty.

[Lapsa]

Froggy frog, could you explain your vote on Thor?

[Thor665]

He already did and I already responded to it.

[Shinobi]

Froggy frog, could you explain your vote on Thor?

Can you do the same?

[Shinobi]

iirc you were voting with Thor almost all game thus far and then flipped.

[Lapsa]

Froggy frog, could you explain your vote on Thor?

Can you do the same?

because I dislike froggers vote and game was stalling. never flipped

VOTE: Zoronos

[Plotinus]

Also if [Zoro] was mafia I don't think he would base all his reads on that fact that I am mafia. It would be an unlikely lense to look at the game through with perfect information.

Can you explain more about what you mean by this? I’m having trouble understanding the first sentence.

Townreads Lapsa because Lapsa scumreads me.
Townreads you because he agreed with your push on me
Scumreads CD because he could be with me.

They are all framed in that I am mafia.

I spent a while staring at his ISO and while that’s a reasonable summary of his 596, it is not literally true that all of his reads are revolving around you: his town lean on bbt is independent of his views on you because bbt is townreading you. Also his views on abuse, frogger, mathdino, and shinobi seem to be mostly unrelated to you.

it’s a weird accusation to make. You don’t think he’s mafia because you think you are the centre of his universe and his reads? I think you are oversimplifying his position and leaving out the parts that don’t fit your narrative.