MINI 1688 — BEES!!! — game over

[Marquis]

(expired on 2015-06-26 20:30:00)

(Fri Jun 26 @ 8:30:00 PM EST)

VOTECOUNT 2.01

• (1)

  Bellaphant

  —
  Fro99er
  
  (0)

  Bob Loblaw

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Fro99er

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Glork

  —
  
  
  (0)

  Green Crayons

  —
  
  
  (0)

  KayP

  —
  
  
  (1)

  Kitty Galore

  —
  Glork
  
  (0)

  lalaladucks

  —
  
  
  (3)

  Shadoxx8

  —
  Bob Loblaw, KayP, Bellaphant
  ((L-3)
  
  
  (1)

  The Bulge

  —
  Shadoxx8
  
  (0)

  Untrod Tripod

  —
  
  
  
  (5)

  (NOT VOTING)

  —
  Green Crayons, Kitty Galore, lalaladucks, The Bulge, Untrod Tripod
  
  With
  11

  alive
  , it takes
  6

  votes
  to lynch.
  
  

  ---

  Green Crayons
  ' V/LA ended
  Mon Jun 22 @ 12 AM EST
  .
  
  Untrod Tripod
  's V/LA ended
  Mon Jun 22 @ 12 AM EST
  .

[Glork]

Yeah, have fun if D4 is you, Bulge, Shadoxx, Kitty, and Laladucks. I sincerely hope I get shot before then.

Also, what do you expect me to do about my proposed scums? I'm already waiting two answers from Shadoxx, who hasn't posted in over three days. I just addressed Bella within the last 24 hours. I legitimately don't understand where your "OMG DISTRACTIONS" is coming from unless you want me to keep vomiting the same questions to Shadoxx over and over again until he finally posts.

[Glork]

Mod: even taking into account the 24 hour night phase, Bulge, Kitty Galore, Shadoxx, and UT have all not-posted in over 48 hours of day phase. Can we get some prods/replacements please?

[Fro99er]

The argument that asking for a claim in that situation was helping direct the scum NK is also a little warped, because, like... BiBob was going to be lynched anyways? So asking for a claim was, in a sense, actually (potentially) tying the scum's NK hands because they wouldn't have gotten the BiBob mislynch, and so scum was going to have to NK BiBob if they actually wanted to get rid of him.

I guess? But this is somewhat coming from the post-perspective of BiBob being odd-night rolecop. At the time, with one hour left, not knowing BiBob's status then getting BiBob to claim would (likely) only:
1) Be a VT claim - then he's lynched and the PR pool is narrowed down by two VT claims (ducky and BiBob)
2) Be a PR claim - and either BiBob is:
a) still lynched (for a multitude of reasons, like not believing the claim, a counter claim, lack of time or something)
b) not lynched and we reach a no lynch, and BiBob is an outed PR
c) not lynched and we reach a consensus lynch by getting 5 people in one hour to change their votes to Shadoxx, or 6+ to change their vote to someone else, hoping to hit scum, and BiBob is an outed PR

To me...option c, which is probably the best outcome also seemed very unlikely with one hour left (even if we assume BiBob was NOT on V/LA).

It just seems weird that if you are going to ask for a claim, that you do so with ONE HOUR LEFT when there is almost no time to organize a contingency lynch. Just feels like scum searching for info going into the night.

[Fro99er]

I am saying that you are saying asking for a claim in the situation presented here is autoscum. And I am disagreeing with that.

Fair enough. What I said was "it only fits a scum mentality", so I can see where you interpret "autoscum". Also poor word choice by me I guess. To me, what I meant, is it's more likely a scum mentality (or anti-town mentality at best) than a town mentality given the situation.

But this claim deal isn't my main point. It's simply an added point to combine with my other points about Bella (and the larger Bella/KayP situation) that asking for a claim in this situation can indeed fit a scum mentality.

[Marquis]

Mod: even taking into account the 24 hour night phase, Bulge, Kitty Galore, Shadoxx, and UT have all not-posted in over 48 hours of day phase. Can we get some prods/replacements please?

Untrod Tripod has been on V/LA.

The prod timer resets every Day phase. If players are not on V/LA and have not posted within 48 hours of daystart (approximately 7 hours from now), they will be prodded, and replaced if they do not post in the following 12 hours.

However, a prod will also be issued if a player has not posted within 12 hours of their V/LA ending.

(Prodding Untrod Tripod now.)

[Green Crayons]

Also, what do you expect me to do about my proposed scums? I'm already waiting two answers from Shadoxx, who hasn't posted in over three days. I just addressed Bella within the last 24 hours. I legitimately don't understand where your "OMG DISTRACTIONS" is coming from unless you want me to keep vomiting the same questions to Shadoxx over and over again until he finally posts.

(shrug)

I dunno, bro. It's just something that bothered me and so I pressed it.

[Green Crayons]

It just seems weird that if you are going to ask for a claim, that you do so with ONE HOUR LEFT when there is almost no time to organize a contingency lynch. Just feels like scum searching for info going into the night.

I agree that it's weird and likely pointless. (Sidenote: did Bella/Kay ever explain why they asked for a claim at that hour? /lazy)

If BiBob is going to be lynched anyways - thereby negating the scum needing to NK him to get him out of the game - I really don't see the scum motivation in seeking a claim. If Bob is lynched anyways, it's a mislynch (good for them) and they get the knowledge of his PR. If Bob is not lynched, and there's no lynch (a wash), they have the knowledge of the PR that they would've known via his mislynch. If Bob is no lynched, and there's a random other lynch (dangerous), they have the knowledge of the PR that they would've known via his mislynch + either one of their own dead or a rando dead.

(SHRUG)

ANYWAYS. I do think folks are onto something regarding Bella's accommodating style of play.

VOTE: Bella

[KayP]

The argument that asking for a claim in that situation was helping direct the scum NK is also a little warped, because, like... BiBob was going to be lynched anyways? So asking for a claim was, in a sense, actually (potentially) tying the scum's NK hands because they wouldn't have gotten the BiBob mislynch, and so scum was going to have to NK BiBob if they actually wanted to get rid of him.

This was sort of my thought process at the end of the day.

I know I was cutting it close by waiting for a claim, but I figured there were three options:

1) BiBob shows up and claims VT or some similarly lynchable role, and I hammer.
2) BiBob doesn't show up at all, and I hammer.
3) BiBob shows up and claims a really important power role, I don't hammer, and then mafia have to waste their kill on BiBob to get rid of the power role.

I didn't see the harm in waiting for a claim and I certainly don't see how it's scummy... I think the only way this would've been scummy is if I hadn't hammered and had instead disappeared, asking for a missed lynch.

[KayP]

Yeah, have fun if D4 is you, Bulge, Shadoxx, Kitty, and Laladucks. I sincerely hope I get shot before then.

Also, what do you expect me to do about my proposed scums? I'm already waiting two answers from Shadoxx, who hasn't posted in over three days. I just addressed Bella within the last 24 hours. I legitimately don't understand where your "OMG DISTRACTIONS" is coming from unless you want me to keep vomiting the same questions to Shadoxx over and over again until he finally posts.

What makes you think I won't make it to Day 4?

[KayP]

Huh. That was underwhelming. I figured with me being gone for almost a full day, there'd be more to come back to. :\

[Fro99er]

If BiBob is going to be lynched anyways - thereby negating the scum needing to NK him to get him out of the game - I really don't see the scum motivation in seeking a claim.

Right...

IF

BiBob is going to be lynched anyway. But we didn't know for a fact that BiBob would be lynched, so your point quoted is based off the one if scenario (which did eventually come true).

The other two scenarios, (no lynch or lynch someone else) it absolutely benefits scum to get a claim out of him, unless a scum is the one flashwagoned at the end of D1 (which makes me think even further that Shadoxx is town, as he was the likely flashwagon with Bella and KayP on board, and they being the ones asking for the claim).

Anyway...like I said, the claim deal is just a supporting part of my Bella read (accommodating, follows town, didn't push her scum reads past her initial vote on them, her initial reasons were weird anyway, etc.).

GC, what do you make of the fact that Bella and KayP both pushed on each other D1, then both ended up on the Shadoxx wagon late D1, then both came on at the end of D1 to ask for a claim and hammer? Coincidence?

[Green Crayons]

GC, what do you make of the fact that Bella and KayP both pushed on each other D1, then both ended up on the Shadoxx wagon late D1, then both came on at the end of D1 to ask for a claim and hammer? Coincidence?

The fact that they pushed for each other is unhelpful until we get a flip from one of Bella/Kay.

The fact that they both ended upon on the Shadox wagon is not much more helpful until we get a flip from one of Bella/Kay/Shadox; although I do see a somewhat credible suspicion in the fact that Bella/Kay cross-scumread each other than then agreed upon a single third party scumread.

Both coming at the end of D1 and simultaneously asking for claim-before-hammer might be something if there was daytalk.

[Fro99er]

Thanks...good points. I was asking more about the whole storyline, than addressing my three points individually, and obviously the association is just an association and is fairly useless until we get a flip. But I thought it was at least noteworthy to point out the storyline between the two (or three if we include Shadoxx) should we get a flip from one of them.

[Fro99er]

FWIW, sounds like Kitty has gone completely MIA

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6976119

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm back bitches

TTH dying is either because of Glork or the Bulge (bulge is a weaker association, but TTH was really only pushing on Glork and Bulge at the end of the day), or is meant to set up Glork for a mislynch, imo.

I'm more willing to believe that Bulge is scum than Glork, at the moment. I have a hard time believe scum-Glork would so hammily lead a last minute mislynch, I'm finding him more likely to be a patsy than a killer atm.

vote Bulge

[Untrod Tripod]

I have a lot of warm fuzzy feelings about Fro99er

[Glork]

TBH I assumed the TTH kill was power role hunting.

On the assumption that KG has flaked and will be replaced,

Unvote
Vote: Bella

[Untrod Tripod]

TBH I assumed the TTH kill was power role hunting.


TBH I assumed the TTH kill was power role hunting.

why?

[Untrod Tripod]

if I were scum and you were not, I would make every effort to frame the shit out of you

or just nightkill you

hmm

[Glork]

TBH I assumed the TTH kill was power role hunting.


TBH I assumed the TTH kill was power role hunting.

why?

idk I didn't really put much thought into it. TTH struck me as town enough, but not standing out, so I can see how scum might've thought that was a good kill.

if I were scum and you were not, I would make every effort to frame the shit out of you

or just nightkill you

hmm

Yeah, but at least 9/12 players probably aren't of that mindset. You/GC, maybe Frogger, and I'm p sure I've not played with any of the other players in this game. If it weren't for being a masonizer in Reck's Retrospective, I'd probably have gotten me/singer lynched, and the two previous games I played (Balto/Reckoning invitationals), I wound up as mislynch/vig fodder. So framing is a possibility. I don't think I get nightkilled until I actually lead a scumlynch, though.

[Green Crayons]

Lead a scumlynch already, then!

[Bob Loblaw]

UT we're lynching Bella or Shadoxx today

What are you even doing man

[Marquis]

Bellaphant has requested replacement.

The Bulge, Kitty Galore, and lalaladucks are being prodded.

[Marquis]

bee-yump