In post 1023, Gold Saucer wrote:Uh, I don't feel like I understand anything about someone's personality merely from the fact that they're new to the site (and she really isn't, she just doesn't play much)
-b
Sure, join date can be deceptive but you are damn well going to make assumptions about her abilities based on that fact that she seems like a fish out of water in this playerlist. Example: when I was scum in the TM Vanilla Nightless, I made a bunch of assumptions about the quality of SilverWolf's scum play (they were not favorable, to say the least) despite the fact that I had never even heard of her before that game. I think that if pieguyn were scum with Yuriko, it would lead to pieguyn making the same assumptions.
And if she doesn't play much, then that obviously means she doesn't have experience and she'd still qualify as a "newbie" despite the join date. I've seen people with join dates older than mine play like newbies before simply because they don't play very many games.
In post 1025, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Sure, join date can be deceptive but you are damn well going to make assumptions about her abilities based on that fact that she seems like a fish out of water in this playerlist. Example: when I was scum in the TM Vanilla Nightless, I made a bunch of assumptions about the quality of SilverWolf's scum play (they were not favorable, to say the least) despite the fact that I had never even heard of her before that game. I think that if pieguyn were scum with Yuriko, it would lead to pieguyn making the same assumptions.
I'm honestly not sure I'd have reacted in Yuriko-scum-partner's place in that manner at start of game; I have no idea what pie would have done.
I do think I see the spirit of where you're coming from: if, as scum, I saw my team starting to be subtly pushed up against the ropes because of a really strong town, even if they hadn't narrowed us down yet, I might do something drastic. I think that has less to do with Yuriko and more to do with the fact that the town is all the people that aren't Yuriko, but I concede it. I don't know that I agree that it's more likely than Pie just getting bent out of shape yet, but I'll do my best to figure that out tonight.
Anyway I've already skyped Tammy about you in particular but we'll (hopefully) do some co-rereading overnight.
In post 1011, pieguyn wrote:in other news, I want to say RBD is likely town off of Yuriko's read on them. I realize it's objectively fakeable, but I think that kind of read coming from newb-scum is more likely to be on a townie than a scum partner - she's not pointing out problems with their actual posts because she has trouble finding legitimate angles of attack to push on them and doesn't want to risk tripping over herself making a bullshit push. I'm not sure about this, though.
I think I agree; would've been stronger if she'd voted though
In post 1026, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:ALSO I JUST GOT A JOB INTERVIEW FOR A PLACE UP IN MADISON, FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES
yesyesyes I will cross every single one of my fingers. It will be so awesome if you're so close!
I just super skimmed, but will read for real in a bit if the threads not locked, otherwise I'll just talk to Bork but since we'll definitely be here tomorrow I feel less urgency about it. And the night phase will give me some time to read through Quil's meta that empire linked.
I am going to Milwaukee for summerfest this weekend, so I probably won't be around until Monday.
I pretty strongly feel that Quilford is the partner. I don't really think anyone else makes sense, but probably want the game open tomorrow since I will have rare laptop access.
In post 784, pieguyn wrote:(honestly, Nacho/ffery being there for me was really the only thing that made me feel like I could continue in this game - with that gone, it is really painful for me to even want to do anything here)
I want you to talk about this post. This post, if pie is scum, is very very harsh emotional manipulation (the only reason I've been able to stand this game is because of Nacho/Ffery townreading me). I wouldn't be capable of this sort of shit as scum. I don't think Pie would be either.
Also walk me through your Quilford town read because that seems like very obvious last scum while thinking Pie-scum requires jumping through a lot of mental hoops (oh maybe pie just played really really well and took all these risks because she had a terrible partner).
In post 276, pieguyn wrote:the advantage of that is he wants to look like he has a point here and hope people accept it as truth without actually thinking critically/checking what actually happened.
People usually can't get away with pushes like that. Regfan doesn't have a scum game where he tries to get away with pushes like that.
These kinds of odd conclusions that presume the other players in the game are mindless idiots (including the one I pointed out in #133) are really stopping me from being able to put pieguyn in the townpile which I kind of have been wanting to do based on her emotions when reacting to GB
I don't like this push. This push is essentially Quilford saying "oh, I find the emotional responses really, really town but there's this *one point* I disagree with and so I don't think Pie is town". It feels like Quilford is just keeping his options open, especially since its just one single point he's concerned about and he doesn't really make any real effort to address it on his own (he prods pieguy about it a little bit, but doesn't make a conclusion or attempt to make one based on her response).
In post 440, Quilford wrote:#367 was pretty underwhelming as an assessment of the first 5 pages. I really don't like how he responds to sangres' question, it wasn't even directed at him. Padded out by a response to a joke by molla and a response to a post of mine that's already been thoroughly discussed, the whole thing reads like scum trying to look busy. There's not any actual scumhunting. Also don't like how he says he'll read pages 6-15 and then drops that as well, think he's afraid of people cottoning on if he puts out even more fluff. Last thing is that the abrupt change of tone in #410 is also a bit weird, oh and the fact that he hasn't explained any of his townreads and hasn't declared any scumreads at all.
I don't like this case. This case has essentially been Quilford attacking S-S for... not writing that much (in particular, the "underwhelming catchup + not catching up on pages 6-15 attacks are particularly egregious) and the rest of it (change of tone, answered a question not for him) is just padding. One of the things that very much stood out to me in his ISO is that he flirted with most Yuriko alternatives (S-S, pie, us, don't think he went after muffin but I could see him avoiding that one) but didn't actually bring attention to Yuriko even though that's where he should have been brought after his S-S push became less and less likely.
In post 583, Quilford wrote:I think the slip is eminently fakeable (and am definitely going to look into it more when I'm not on my phone)
I didn't like him brushing off the townslip in the way he did, either, and I don't like the "I'm going to look into it more when I'm not on my phone" bit because why does he have to look into a townslip? Either it was real or it was fake, looking at it with a bigger screen doesn't affect that at all.
I would also like how making a big attack on a player who is obviously town is optimal scum play. When you have a weak partner in a playerlist where getting mislynches is hard, you need good credibility to force through the mislynches you need since you can't rely on town error. Making a big attack on someone who will obvtown themselves pretty much immediately means you are going to be proven wrong in a big way, which kills credibility. The actual optimal strategy with a shit scum partner is to have an interaction that makes you look as town as possible, and then start making big plays after they're dead and you are swimming in town cred from their death.
In post 1039, sangres wrote:I would also like how making a big attack on a player who is obviously town is optimal scum play. When you have a weak partner in a playerlist where getting mislynches is hard, you need good credibility to force through the mislynches you need since you can't rely on town error. Making a big attack on someone who will obvtown themselves pretty much immediately means you are going to be proven wrong in a big way, which kills credibility. The actual optimal strategy with a shit scum partner is to have an interaction that makes you look as town as possible, and then start making big plays after they're dead and you are swimming in town cred from their death.
Because when said obviously town player has identified both you and your partner almost immediately, the only thing you have left to do is to attack the player and discredit his posting. It's a last resort kind of thing.
At any rate, I personally am still waffling on pieguyn but both Regfan and I still have problems with her play.
In post 1039, sangres wrote:I would also like how making a big attack on a player who is obviously town is optimal scum play. When you have a weak partner in a playerlist where getting mislynches is hard, you need good credibility to force through the mislynches you need since you can't rely on town error. Making a big attack on someone who will obvtown themselves pretty much immediately means you are going to be proven wrong in a big way, which kills credibility. The actual optimal strategy with a shit scum partner is to have an interaction that makes you look as town as possible, and then start making big plays after they're dead and you are swimming in town cred from their death.
Because when said obviously town player has identified both you and your partner almost immediately, the only thing you have left to do is to attack the player and discredit his posting. It's a last resort kind of thing.
At any rate, I personally am still waffling on pieguyn but both Regfan and I still have problems with her play.
This argument is arrogant. It additionally implies that your initial vote on Pieguyn was a push since it was apparently strong enough to push him in last resort mode.
In post 1040, Gentlemen Bastards wrote:Uh dude, Regfan wanted me to tell you that he doesn't townread Quilford and that he thought his last few posts made that obvious...
You two believe pie is more likely scum than Quilford, correct?
Well, at least on my end, I'm waffling pretty hard between them. Like, I acknowledge that pieguyn has some town posts (I believe I even pointed a couple of them out) but the issues remain.
Anyway, if no objections, I'm going to hammer since we can just keep talking tomorrow.
