In post 1096, Zoronos wrote:Frogger, I missed whatever happened this morning, but it looks like you're freaking out and half the thread is going insane. I need you to calm down and work with me here.
I don't think the Pers / MathDino slot is scum, but if we're going to actually find scum, I need your analytical hat back on.
I was trying to get you to start by asking you to break down where you thought Pers was making cases based on non-alignment-determining actions (aka Reaching).
If you want to go a bit further, I'd like you to put on glasses such that you know, for the sake of argument, that Plot is Town, then re-read Bella. Think about her language around the 'Bella thinks Plot is scum' read.
and large portions of it weren’t alignment indicative,
and she’s the type to look stuff up. i was at first suspicious of her calling me she but i looked it up and she did in elemental mafia too, so that’s not alignment indicative, and her doing it there was also inexplicable but indicates she probably read enough of my first game to notice that i came out as not a boy in that game after realising i was creeping one of the female players out by mistake.
but nonetheless she’s only played 1 game with me in which i played a fairly minor background role, but she uses words like “usually” to strengthen her experience with me, though i can give that one a pass because usually is right (always is not. citation: We didnt playtest this)
and then she says something about AtE which if i was going to do AtE then i wouldnt be being so cryptic about the lifesuck, but since the stuff going on with me is real, it felt like Brantz’s response to my meltdown in WDPT. the other townie realised I was actually upset and was nice to me (they still voted me, but they were nice about it). the scum sneered at me about AtE and then backpedalled after the townie was nice to me. it read as frustration with potentially losing a mislynch target.
+ with bella being the type to look things up and me actually having discussed at least some of it in the sad thread in the SE, it felt like she was doing it on purpose bcause i was reading it as knowing what was going on and using it anyway.
+ my meltdown earlier in this thread was largely a town paranoia thing and because i know that it is hard for me to imagine oter people not knowing it but theory of mind is hard.
OOG Shit: Mod, lemme know if you wanna move this to a pm, or whatever.
Spoiler:
I was talking about your response to Frog, not any 'lifesuck': I actually don't think you've really expanded much on that in here, and I haven't read your posts in the sad-thread. I don't know whether that would make what you are feeling worse or better right now, so I'll leave that to you. I'm a little upset that you'd assume I'm the sort of person to deliberately use whatever is there against someone in a game: that's really shitty behaviour whatever alignment. However, if it upset you, then I can only be sorry.
I didn’t think you were the type of person to do that because I thought better of you than that but then it looked like that’s what you were doing and so i was upset, but I’m glad to know that I was mistaken. I’ve mentioned the lifesuck in passing and I think some correct conclusions could be drawn about its nature by reading between in the lines in some of my posts, but I don’t intend to go into it further in public. I’d also rather not PM while we’re in a game together but I don’t mind talking about this after the game or once we’re both in the dead thread, because I like you. Thanks for the apology and I’m sorry I misunderstood you too. I don’t remember doing AtE at all in relation to frogger aside from the part where I was telling him to convince me that it was TvT so we could drop it, but ok.
retracted that bit about Bella, then. Maybe I’m still jumping at shadows.
His early game was not-actionable info. He was doing work, or giving the appearance of doing work, but it wasn't stuff that could push an answer to "Who are the scum right now".
I think he is wrong about Frogger. His case was interesting since he jumped directly to the motivation level instead of directly going after Frogger's points. But I think that's specifcally where his case falls down. It doesn't look closely enough at Frogger's individual reasoning on the wagon joins, and the places where opinion can change (and why).
Missing the forest for the trees, so to speak. Not really scummy, just wrong, imo. (I also think he gets scumFrogger's most likely partner wrong, if Frogger is scum)
I struggle to explain why he'd bother doing so much more work than anyone else in the Thor vs Zor discussion if he were scum. If Thor is town, then the Thor vs Zor things is pretty much textbook 'Opportunistic scum please give a half opinion then vote a side'. If it's scum Thor, I'd expect scum to begin pushing a counterlynch (whether that's me or a third party). But in neither case does a scum Tool really need to go down into the weeds to analyze the arguments to the degree that he did.
I'm leaning towny on him. He's one of the weaker reads I was talking about earlier when I tried to talk to Frogger about my conundrum, but I am town leaning him right now.
And to answer your earlier question Thor, the only person I wasn't confident on either way was Bella, but I don't see why my read on her should sway me off the Tool wagon at all.
Why was that Tool post you quoted town and why does the speed of the wagon matter in regards to his alignment?
In post 1120, Zoronos wrote:Shin - You asked my opinion on Tool earlier, and I wrote you a post. Thoughts on my opinions?
I think you're putting way too much stock into associatives. Thor's alignment isn't relevant when you're discussing Tool because Tool is scummy on his own merits.
I just feel like an idiot