Genesis Mafia - Game Over!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

>.> oops.

I meant to say, I'm happy to put pressure there and see where it leads. I have a -twitch- about Quaroth's vote, but you're right, in hindsight Vezok's was worse.

Vote: Vezok

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, using my vote for pressure has been my modus operandi this entire game, so let's get this.

[Vi]

See, when

I

read "pressure" I interpret it to refer to the tension of a rope against someone's neck.

Unvote: zakk
Vote: vezokpiraka

(L-3)

I only just noticed that there are already people on this wagon. Even better

[Quaroath]

The above post is poor for reasons that I'll expound upon later.

Just so that I don't forget. Old age.

You don't need to. I know it's poor.

I don't care. Ragefest disengaged me and literally all I remember is Jazz calling me (and you!) out for not posting enough when I had the same number of posts. And it ain't got better.

That's a total I'm annoyed with Jazz vote, not a "I think you are scum" vote.

Added emphasis on the relevant part.

I feel I need to quote this part of my prior post for LLD to make sure she read it. Like, seriously. I out and out

said

it's an OMGUS and just from irritation, not suspicion.

Should I move my vote back to Vezok? (Where it was before Jazz annoyed me?)

yeah, cause I still do think he's scum, and other people now seem to LIKE the idea I advocated in 250 and 289.

What took ya'll so long?

VOTE: Vezok L-2

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh I read it. What do you think made me twitch? lol

[Salamence20]

Vi are you town?

[Jazzmyn]

Also, as before, Jazzmyn is a super-easy target [...]

You keep saying this, but I do not understand it. What do you mean?
Regards,
Jazz

[Master Zik]

Also, as before, Jazzmyn is a super-easy target [...]

I don't like this. It sounds almost as if Vi is evaluating the game from a scum perspective.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, as before, Jazzmyn is a super-easy target [...]

I don't like this. It sounds almost as if Vi is evaluating the game from a scum perspective.

Has it ever occured to you that in order to catch scum, you have to evaluate a game from scum's perspective to find what they would do?

And that Vi's entire posting before you cherry picked this line has been evidence of that, given Vi's conversation with me about how Vi thinks it would be too hard for scum NOT to vote the easy target that is Jazzmyn?

Tell me, are you reading? or are you skimming looking for potshots to take? Cause I'll tell you that between the thing you quoted, and what you're doing, you're the one coming from a scum perspective here.

[Master Zik]

What does her being adorable have to do with her alignment?

Read the context.

even if your reason is "frustration".

Quaroth's vote on Jazzmyn was not well-founded and I'm discouraging it.

It's hypocritical that you would attack me for staying on the zakk wagon, yet you've been on my wagon since page 3 and see no issue with that at all.

Have I attacked you for "staying on the zakk wagon"? That's misrepresentative. I never launched that point.

I'm trying to assess whether you are attack me from a position of validity and therefore are genuinely scumhunting, or you are trying to attacking me unfairly and therefore are scum.

If something sounds fake, that's not a good sign. While I was open to the idea of you attacking me for being "fluffy" initially (I disagree, of course, but it was valid, I think), I've noticed that you've ignored similar traits in other players. This is not a good sign.

That's bullshit. You're caught scum and are just sparring with me to if I let go.

I can go pretty far.


And, bonus:

no one will be joining you.

Be careful what you wish for.

---

@Plum Consider reading my posts? They aren't very long, except for the long ones.

[Master Zik]

Has it ever occured to you that in order to catch scum, you have to evaluate a game from scum's perspective to find what they would do?

That need not necessarily be the case.

"Jazzmyn is a super-easy target" was fronted as a marked theme, showing emphasis on that point. It's almost as if that is the thought that is at the front of her mind.

And, I don't even agree with the statement. Why does Vi state it as if it's fact?

[Plum]

I read your ISO. I'm looking for something new/relevant.

[Master Zik]

Cause I'll tell you that between the thing you quoted, and what you're doing, you're the one coming from a scum perspective here.

Please go ahead and tell me. Spell it all out, Lady Lambdadelta. I don't see how I'm "coming from a scum perspective", so perhaps you can teach me a thing or two.

After all, you're renowned as a Master at playing scum.

Go ahead.

[Master Zik]

I read your ISO. I'm looking for something new/relevant.

Then you had better be more clear in what you want from me, because I believe that I have been very transparent with my reads.

[Master Zik]

I'll take my leave.

[Plum]

I read your ISO. I'm looking for something new/relevant.

Then you had better be more clear in what you want from me, because I believe that I have been very transparent with my reads.

How do you read the Jazzmyn wagon (participants, development)? How do you read the Vezok wagon (again: participants, development)?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cause I'll tell you that between the thing you quoted, and what you're doing, you're the one coming from a scum perspective here.

Please go ahead and tell me. Spell it all out, Lady Lambdadelta. I don't see how I'm "coming from a scum perspective", so perhaps you can teach me a thing or two.

After all, you're renowned as a Master at playing scum.

Go ahead.

The goal of any town player is to find scum and try to do this through different methods. The key to this is that all methods have a similarity in their intent. They're all looking for things that scum would DO.

Vi's posting is doing that. Attempting to get inside the head of scum and look at intent based on votes and reactions.

Your post on the other hand has the unfortunate quality of not doing this. The intent behind the post was not backed up with any attempt at finding scum, but rather at potshotting someone's credibility for later, and keeping yourself under the radar, without having to commit anywhere.

This kind of posting is perfect for scum, because it makes people consider other players beyond yourself and gives you some ground to stand on in the terms of content.

The fact is, attempting to claim that post is coming from a scum perspective without elaborating on it (because once I elaborated on it, it became clear you were cherry picking a tree and avoiding the forest) has more scum intent than anything Vi has said so far.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I'm renowned as a master of scum?

I mean, I'm good at scum and I like it, but I never knew people cared!

Daww~

[vezokpiraka]

Wtf Vi?

You've played with me before. You are very good at scumhunting. So why the vote on me? This happens every game where I'm town. Scum pile up on me.

The thing is I know I'm town. It doesn't make sense for Vi to vote me at all.

[Plum]

Wait, so what the hell happens when you draw scum?

Any reason not to go to L-1 here?

[zakk]

my cumulative notes on people (from towny to scummy)

(a lot of this was done on my phone over the last few days and i'm not bothering to correct what i already wrote so excuse spelling errors unless they are personally offensive to you in which case please take a number and/or read the following spoiler)

Spoiler:

probably town

Master Zik

– not mentioning Kinetic in 192 and then after RC's 203, following up with 252, would be perfectly fine except for the whole "ah yes. scum removed my memory" quip, which rings conspicuously hollow even given his propensity to post frivolous things. perhaps that's a tactic to make him harder to read. maybe it's just a personality quirk. i don't feel like being particularly generous except the rest of his posts seem rather good, though infrequent. seems more likely to argue about arguing (358,359) than actually do anything useful. thinking Jazzmyn is town because of the "regards" thing (402) is terrihorrible. noticing that RedCoyote is belittling his attacks is a good one. i actually use that scumtell a lot. it works great on people like Thor665 because that's all he does when people make cases, he dances around like a fairy and tries to make their cases look stupid, instead of actually addressing points and scumhunting instead. anyway back to Zik. his post 405 where he mentions this article (yes of course i had to google it. with a title like that, wouldn't you? lol) made me giggle uncontrollably and gives sleepkrew a run for his money for funniest post of the game. overall not extremely townie or scummy except for post 432 which almost entirely redeems this slot into a strong town read. i don't find scum usually looking for stuff like that.

Lady Lambdadelta

– never explains the Sleepy Krew vote in post 25/39. is very fluffy until about what's up with the gratuitous~ tildes~ in 210? is that some kind of a courtesy notification that *extra sass* has been applied to the post? lol. almost feels like a cosplay celebrity not-quite-flirting with her fan following. why be flirty unless you want something? still, i like the general confidence and it doesn't feel like scum testing the waters with what she posts. her mouth seems very unfiltered and raw. she has opinions and isn't afraid to push people's buttons, as is the case with ABR. not saying i'm a fan of the outcome (petty arguments) but it's effective for stimulating. post 320 seems supertownie to me, and she also noticed exactly my problem with plum's interactions with jazzmyn. strong town read and i agree about ABR/town and plum/scum.

Albert B. Rampage

– I like posts 134/137. Regardless of ABR's alignment calling people out as walking on eggshells is pro town and was a much needed kick in the pants. 149 seems a too self aware; find out if ABR usually speaks his train of thought? post 150 complains about people just voting people for *things* ...but in 134/37 abr had just complained that people were walking on egg shells, and said players needed to get down and dirty... and then ABR sits back and caps on others for "not doing it right"... lol either ABR is all bark and no bite or he's just a hypocrite. or both. either way that's probably town. feels kinda like 1505 but in a different context. his comment about plum's dance doesn't seem creepy to me, maybe VI and Jazzmyn have more context. that, or they're completely misreading things because they want to, or they're just finding a reason to complain about someone they already don't like. which seems like it could both be the case. Either way, VI prob not scum with Jazzmyn. ABR probably town

idk/not enough to tell

Juls

– post 24 and 32 seem like genuine scumhunting. 123 being honest about wanting to "join in on the banter" seems town. not too much to work with here but still substantially more town feeling than some other players, especially fluffers like say, sleepycrew.

Salamance20

– idk why he's worried about being modkilled in post 29 (again in 220). too lazy to meta other games rn, ask what he's talking about. 42 seems like an odd thing to say if he were scum. kinda makes posts like i imagine a 15 year old talks on call of duty, but with less unsavory language choices. post 70 "RC i've never seen you so fluffy" is good. pursued un-game related question about ABR and Plum being IRL friends (was it in order to look busy?) and talks about GreyIce/LLD being in fights (not commenting on game, again) - blames ABR instead of LLD when clearly LLD attacked ABR with the intent of needling him.228 makes a good point to RC. 233 feels pretty town. 246 trying to get in front of the criticism seems scummy (in b4 RC attacks me). 271 is an easy jump onto vezopraka without any other stated suspicion of him, just "Sigh" and taht's it. 421 is a really good catch. feeling better about salamence now. hard to imagine scum thinking like that, OR admitting that. 422 is also hard to imagine scum making that post.

RedCoyote

– didn’t like his initial few pages of posts, didn’t like his response to being voted, don’t like the reaction by his defenders. 160 sounds like false bravado. Reminds me of when scum attack the wording in a post to try to make their attacker look dumb, even though the attacker is being honest about something being a gut feeling. (I have a sinking feeling with the way players are talking in this game, i'll see that a lot, and won't be able to use it as reliably as a tell). Because, sometimes there is nothing more than a gut feeling. And some players have good gut. Main point is, RC tries to go on the offensive when really all he's doing is defaming his attacker and discrediting an argument against himself, when really he should be making his own arguments, instead of focusing on pressure on himself, particularly, as he puts it, such "weak, weak, weak sauce" pressure. 198 feels like a legit stream of consciousness post on plum being scummy, for the most part. Town points. i wanna see Zik vs. RedCoyote unfold more.

vezokpiraka

– seems like he's relatively detached from the game in terms of drama except for asking for it to stop, but he is tunneling on plum and SK and i can dig it, seeing that SK is nothing but fluff city and plum is obvscum. i like his catch in 371, i didn't really notice that myself until I saw his post. still think it's tvt there. 443 doesn't seem like scum. either that, or vezo is all around a bad player who's hard to read. and coming pretty much straight from rome, i feel i am qualified to make an assessment like that. still, would not lynch today. see if he gets any better from an info perspective.

Quaroath

– in 44 he asks plum if she usually talks like that, even though she explained why she was talking like that. not sure if faked dumbness or if he really missed it. also he says it's "disconcerting" and when people say words like "that's weird" or "this makes me feel odd" in certain ways, it always makes me feel weird about them in some odd way (see what i did there?) because they're stopping short of saying "hey that's scummy" and could just be trying to seed doubt (see: comments about Thor elsewhere). his posts sound like he's trying to get people to read them in a certain way. "Um. That's kinda stating the obvious ain't it? Most of the time, ya don't want to die." in post 65 in particular. wait actually after skimming all his posts they all kinda sound the same in terms of sounding like a sentence you'd actually say. nvm mostly a null tell if this always happens regardless of alignment. post #89 what does "tech" mean in this context? i'm laughing at the fruit jokes but only because i'm tired and it's too late right now. the unqualified Vote Of Anger on Jazzmyn is useless considering quar just switches back to vezopiraka when that wagon grew up. the vote on Jazzmyn is understandable because she's a pretty annoying player so far but it's still hard to rationalize IMO given that he stated its intent as a non serious vote and also because he switched right after. his initial reasons for voting vezo are good though (stated in #250) and though I disagree that's what vezo is doing i understand a vote in that context. also right about SK wagon probably going nowhere even though it should. maybe that would encourage some activity. overall, kinda scummy, mostly due to his posts rubbing me the wrong way almost every single one but also because of the noncommittal jaz vote and explanation to Lambga in post 428

scummy

Sleepycrew

– more fluff than substance. 136 is a sad excuse to vote, not to mention I disagree with it. 238 is the funniest post of the game so far. Hands down. probably wouldn't be this brazen about being completely useless if he were scum, unless this is his meta in which case that observation is useless. not enough stances to really get a good read. that alone is scummy. would lynch simply for willing uselessness alone. replace out if you’re not going to play.

Jazzmyn

– tries to play up the "I'm old school" card a little too much. Her and VI harping on about the "creepy" thing got old super fast and seemed like a distraction or perhaps a bus, though ABR seems town overall. she seems far too moody and far too likely to focus on non-game-related crap. i don't bother to comment on most of her posts, but she's scummy. not as scummy as these last 2 though...

probably scum

VI

– first of all, VI seems ridiculously self-aware. like... #ridiculously#. idk if it's an ego thing or an OCD "i read all my posts 3 times before i post them" thing, but it looks like they are all pretty manufactured/manicured to make people feel a certain way. 187 looks like VI is trying to distance from the plum wagon, immediately following salamander saying there was scum on it. But then says plum is scummy. If plum is scummy, why not own up to being on the wagon? Only conclusion is VI is trying to diminish his prominence in salamanders suspicion. i.e. red flag, VI is probably scum. The last paragraph of 211 re: having four vs three suspects is good. I didn't really think of that in those terms, but I suppose it makes sense given the size of the game (albeit i haven't played too many non-newbie games here (which is another reason a lot of the "jokes" are over my head)).could be scum knowledge about the setup or could also be just experience talking, feels more that way than scummy to me. i don't like 414 asking if jazmyn is "substantially more likely than random to be town", not the way it is worded, not the way it comes across. i DO like Lambda's response of "yes. absolutely." even though i don't particularly agree. trying to "figure out the game" with Red Coyote while they are both online seems like a cheap attempt to win town credit and also an attempt to give something to Plum to grab onto, which she kinda does by adopting the "hey look i'll be helpful too" attitude (more on that below)

scum

Plum

– I like the short-winded posting style she starts with; it’s refreshing to hear thoughts presented in a succinct format. It says little about her alignment, but I suppose it could somewhat be used to mask a scum meta. 129 "probably not enough contact for me to have a solid read" feels self-aware in a way like town shouldn't be. VI saw something in this post too, but I think VI picked up on something else - I'm catching the tone here, not the content. who cares if you have a solid read? oh yeah, you do, if you're trying to be consistent with fake reads. scummy. in post 186 she actually defends people voting her when salamander says there are scum on her wagon. she is transparently trying to get in the good graces of those voting her, and this makes no sense otherwise. post 249 "that's really weird. Salamander, what gives?" betrays that she knows salamander is town. you don't say that to people you think might be scum #253 directed at Zik saying "calling the scum team isn't a thing that exists at this stage of the game right now" feels like someone trying to feel more popular than they are, and/or saying something directed at a scumbuddy without actually saying anything. Interesting backtrack in #423 given she's got a couple votes on her. Also seems like an attempt to follow suit on the "point of order: let's all be reasonable and work together now!" trend that's surfaced in the past page or two. 436 from Plum to Zik seems like she's trying to scare him. She comes out looking super scummy, he comes out looking super townie. and as the icing on the cake, she posts 444 and says "any reason not to go L-1 here?" on the vezo wagon, which, to me, even if it did not already seem like a lazy wagon (my pet peeve),it also looks like she's Nonchalantly Looking for other people's approval. I can't say just how much that post makes my spidey sense tingle, except, it does.

There's a lot of scummy people in this game but Plum is (by far) the worst of the bunch.

vote: Plum

The vezopiraka wagon is not as shiny as this, by far.
idk why this wagon ever lost steam.

I think Plum and VI are bussing and buddying alternately to be confusing.

cue: somebody viciously judging me making a pre-flip association tell.

[zakk]

Oh and. Since I'm finally caught up, I'll be here, but I'm still on L/A for this week, so yeah

Now sleep.

[vezokpiraka]

Wow. That reads list is awful, but at least zakk is town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow. That reads list is awful, but at least zakk is town.

So what makes it awful, and why is he town? that's a bold statement to say, can you back it up?

Also, why does your reads list differ then, since his is bad?

[Master Zik]

zakk, you mention that my post 432 is extremely townie and was what made me your top town read. However, your second top town read, Lady Lambdadelta, instead has a deeply contrasting opinion; she thinks that 432 is scummy. Do you have any comments on this difference of opinion?