Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Please find any given scumgame of mine in which I have ever trolled anyone

It's not a meta point at all - it's a case of we can see you giving up and turning to trolling here as scum since it's a p unwinnable position for you, to win you'd have to somehow dodge 3 or so lynches and force through mslynches on players that are p much universally town-read.

Anyway I dedicated most of the day to other things (lot on my plate atm and yes I know I've been making that excuse since forever but it's no less true), I

'll come here properly tomorrow or the next day but we have so much time?

We do have time and I'm happy to give you a day or two (I myself need time before I dedicate more time here too) but my patience will dwindle every time you pop in with troll-type posts rather than actual reasons behind your reads - I'm still bothered by your lack of real analysis in the thread so far.

[Quilford]

It's not a meta point at all - it's a case of we can see you giving up and turning to trolling here as scum since it's a p unwinnable position for you

It is a meta point because I'm sure I've been in tonnes of such situations as scum

[Quilford]

but my patience will dwindle every time you pop in with troll-type posts

Btw every time you call my posts trolling I become less and less inclined to bother to convince you because I feel like I'm not going to be able to cut through. Plus the temptation to put in no effort so I can just get lynched and flip confirmed town tomorrow rises.

[Gold Saucer]

Not going to lie I did have a moment of paranoia re; Borkhydra largely due to also thinking that Borks Post 969 would make sense as him encouraging her to claim FF and then pushing for a CC in Post 971, I was confident enough in Yuriko being scum and the manner she claimed to be scum that I'd have yelled for no counter-claims ahd I been online at the moment and there would be scum motivation behind Bork using Yuriko to bait out the doctor as scum <snip>

I am fucking flabbergasted that I've gotten any kind of flak for handling the claim situation in the way I did, esp. considering how PoE-ish most people's read on her was.

FFS, even if it wasn't PoE and people were just

wrong,

you lynch hypothetical-town-Yuriko with without waiting for CC and you're fucking nowhere on D2. Risk vs Reward on that play is skewed way way on the wrong side.

-b

[Gentlemen Bastards]

@Bork; Scum-read on Yuriko wasn't PoE based for us and I think the manner/way she claimed made it p obvious she was scum where I'd have not let a counter-claim occur and I know that it's the "safe play" ect. and if I was unsure on Yuriko or had several scum reads in the game I'd have certainly pushed for a counter but I didn't and while the "gain" isn't huge it can almost be an extra-lynch in the game numbers wise.

It is a meta point because I'm sure I've been in tonnes of such situations as scum

Find it hard to believe there's a similar situation to a game like this where there's a lot of strong ObvTown players that can't really be night killed with a scum partner down D1 in a two scum player team. If there is links please?

Btw every time you call my posts trolling I become less and less inclined to bother to convince you because I feel like I'm not going to be able to cut through. Plus the temptation to put in no effort so I can just get lynched and flip confirmed town tomorrow rises.

The whole "I feel like I'm not going to cut through, tempted to put no effort in" is silly considering if you'd read our post our scum-read on Pie is slightly stronger than on you -- I just need some content, explanations and stances from you to feel better about you and that's lacking so far.

[borkjerfkin]

@Bork; Scum-read on Yuriko wasn't PoE based for us and I think the manner/way she claimed made it p obvious she was scum where I'd have not let a counter-claim occur and I know that it's the "safe play" ect. and if I was unsure on Yuriko or had several scum reads in the game I'd have certainly pushed for a counter but I didn't and while the "gain" isn't huge it can almost be an extra-lynch in the game numbers wise.

I am not objecting to you potentially having a different course of action, even if I don't agree with it and would, in the vast majority of all cases, not dismiss a PR claim until it gets CC'd even if I have a ballsdeep scumread on that person; I'm willing to allow that you might not play that way.

I am objecting to the fact that you are projecting the expectation of behavior onto me (your reads should really have nothing to do with this) and saying that what I think was an extremely reasonable response was potentially scum motivated enough that you moved me down a tier in reads.

-b

[Gold Saucer]

@Bork; Scum-read on Yuriko wasn't PoE based for us and I think the manner/way she claimed made it p obvious she was scum where I'd have not let a counter-claim occur and I know that it's the "safe play" ect. and if I was unsure on Yuriko or had several scum reads in the game I'd have certainly pushed for a counter but I didn't and while the "gain" isn't huge it can almost be an extra-lynch in the game numbers wise.

I am not objecting to you potentially having a different course of action, even if I don't agree with it and would, in the vast majority of all cases, not dismiss a PR claim until it gets CC'd even if I have a ballsdeep scumread on that person; I'm willing to allow that you might not play that way.

I am objecting to the fact that you are projecting the expectation of behavior onto me (your reads should really have nothing to do with this) and saying that what I think was an extremely reasonable response was potentially scum motivated enough that you moved me down a tier in reads.

-b

fucking shit

-b

[sangres]

Bork what are your reads?

And also can you tell Tammy if she doesn't start playing the game that I'm gonna spite vote her and start practicing for bucket?

[Gold Saucer]

but my patience will dwindle every time you pop in with troll-type posts

Btw every time you call my posts trolling I become less and less inclined to bother to convince you because I feel like I'm not going to be able to cut through. Plus the temptation to put in no effort so I can just get lynched and flip confirmed town tomorrow rises.

I'm not going anywhere on your slot until I see why in the name of fuck you're scumreading us

-b

[Gold Saucer]

Bork what are your reads?

And also can you tell Tammy if she doesn't start playing the game that I'm gonna spite vote her and start practicing for bucket?

Tammy has been really super unavailable for most of the game - if you mean you're gonna vote her because you want to talk to her there's very little I can do about that other than tell her you want to talk to her.
If you mean you're actually suspicious because Tammy hasn't been posting, I am still a part of this hydra and ffs this isn't that fucking hard

I'm pretty sure I've been clear on where my head is at and if you're

really

in the area where you're not super fucking sure I'm town then I'm kinda at a loss.
1192 is still a pretty good summary of where I am in the game (with the exception of maybe my GB read)

If you need that further distilled down:

bbmolla/you/ss
pie/(gb when I'm feeling charitable)
(gb when I am not feeling charitable)/rbd/quil

Tammy puts GB higher than I do - I'm factoring her read into account but she's coming from a place that she hasn't adequately explained to me.
I

kinda

want to move RBD up - everyone is kinda calling them down somewhat unsubstantiatedly with 1 scum left and that probably means they are; I also think zMuffin might be more inclined to just lazy it up as town as opposed to being 1 scum left in imminent danger; would not apply that tell to Nati though. Nothing really that solid there so they're where they are.

It could totally just be Quilford like everyone is wont to think, but there's a lot to be said for reevaluation at this point in the game. I really just want some more meaningful interactions.

-b

[Gold Saucer]

I really just want some more meaningful interactions.

mostly from pie, quil, rbd. The other voices are dominating the game.

-b

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I am objecting to the fact that you are projecting the expectation of behavior onto me (your reads should really have nothing to do with this) and saying that what I think was an extremely reasonable response was potentially scum motivated enough that you moved me down a tier in reads.

It was the manner in which you prodded her to claim that I took issue with; it very much like you put in her mouth to claim FF, that was my concern, don't get me wrong I can get and understand the whole "lets play it safe and get a counter-claim" stance and I don't think you doing that instantly makes you scum at all, it's just the way the whole thing played out made me slightly paranoid about you guys (It was p much a if I'm wrong about a strong town read, that might be it) which is why I wanted to test it via reaction-testing/troll-voting Tammy, since then I really liked your post though and am p convinced once I see a few more posts from her then I'll have absolutely zero qualms with your slot whatsoever, until then yes I'm more sure Soft and Sangres is town than you are.

[Gold Saucer]

Town Tammy and Town Bork Posts!

I skimmed some of regfan's stuff this morning before walking out the door and will try to get completely caught up but that might have to wait until tonight when I get back home. But Bork told me that I've been requested, so!

Day hasn't been open for that long and I've been trying to get through some of quil's meta and catch up on real life stuff I got behind one, which I posted about and asked a question about on Monday but I don't think that empire responded. Or at least to tell me what town game they used as a reference for. I don't feel completely confident that quill is scum but I don't know what else to do if he's not except curl up in a ball and hope the game ends soon.

I think it's silly to suggest that Bork coached or prompted Yuriko to claim. No matter how either of us feel about our scum games, neither one of us are so stupid to make a wink wink hi scum partner Yuriko you should claim. If you believe that I am so self-conscious as scum that the mere vote from you guys would send me into a panic then you have to believe I am too self-conscious to make a "coach" post. So, we urge our partner to claim firefighter to draw out the real firefighter

when Bork had already guessed it was BB

and then we put make that stupid connection coach post, and then...not kill the firefighter we tried to draw out? If you're going to claim we did something so silly, please think out what our complete motivation would be because that makes no sense at all.

And while we're at it BB needs to go ahead and out whom he actually primed last night, there are no tree stumps, which means that the person he primed is confirmed town. I guess it's possible that scum no killed, but that would be stupid to do, so it could be unintentional which make me worry more about quilford, because I can't imagine both heads of a hydra forgetting to send in a prime, but it's more likely that BB saved someone from a prime last night and that person is confirmed town.

Regfan - please give up on trying to read me and let Empire read me; I am amused that you've pretty much forgotten to read me, but you have another head who apparently hasn't, so it would be nice to see his reads list. Just so you know, what you thought was going to be a reaction from me wouldn't have helped you at all. Why wouldn't I just brush it off as a troll vote as scum? I feel like I'm stuck in Signs and Void again and you guys are making up a reaction I wouldn't have and my reaction would literally be very very similar as scum and town.

I also don't know what more you expect me to do. I want to reread the game, but I know I'm not going to finish a full reread by the end of the weekend as I have stuff to do. There are people who need to post to strengthen those reads on, but everyone reads town to me. I'm not sure what to do if quill isn't scum, and I have literally no clue who it could be between any of you and if he isn't scum then I need to scratch all my reads and start over. I don't really care about the argument between you and nacho over pie. I'm not even sure if it's a dead end, but it feels like it is and it feels like that's the only thing going on and it really really shouldn't be. I feel like your argument and continuing to push those points is letting pie sit back and not have to do anything because she's got nacho making all the points why she's town and you're just consumed with proving him wrong.

So IDK, but I mean have fun looking here and letting it get you nowhere.

[Gold Saucer]

Also, your argument with macho is just giving him that one thing to concentrate on and I don't think it's helping the rest of the game at all.

[Gold Saucer]

*nacho

[Gold Saucer]

Bork what are your reads?

And also can you tell Tammy if she doesn't start playing the game that I'm gonna spite vote her and start practicing for bucket?

>_>

<_<

>_<

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I feel like you're not reading my posts or the game at all if you actually think I'm scum-reading your posts, I have no idea how you've come to that conclusion at all; I'm pretty damn confident you're town (So the whole "You've forgotten how to read me!") thing is pretty bullshit and real low blow, what I want and was after from your slot was

just a bit more

so I can entirely rule you out and never have to worry about revisiting there even for a second, I've been able to do that with Sangres (Took a while to be confident there for me, needed to understand Nachos thought process more and I now do) and Soft, pretty much we're working to win this confidently via process of elimination; given how the setup works if we can rule 3-4 people out completely it's unloseable.

I don't think your reaction would have been an entire "panic", I don't think you'd react so obviously as scum but I did think there

would

be a difference in how you'd react as town in comparison to scum to the vote so no I don't think it was a futile attempt whatsoever. As for suspecting Borks attempt to prod Yuriko into claiming FF, I mentioned that we'd discussed that and thought it'd be more likely that it would be a conversation that would have occurred pregame rather than in the thread but it still was something that

did

make me paranoid when reading over for interactions and I did want to remedy by getting more from you -- and all I expect from you is a post like yours above, just an idea of where your heads at, that's really all I need from you - if you've got concerns or aren't confident in your reads that's fine, share that, we're trying to do the same with our reads, pretty much work

with

us.

And you clearly don't understand this setup - no one dies until scum pull the trigger, this means they could have (and likely did) target Molla last night and whenever they pull the trigger he'd die - I'd suggest reading up on it a little more, maybe you'll understand how the setup really works and why we want to confirm and lock in town reads because we're not going to have night kill flips until deep in the game more than likely.

Also I responded to Nachos points because Nacho wrote the whole thing for me -- not explaining where I agree/disagree with him would be silly, the idea is for him to convince that Pies town if that's the case which entails showing me how my read on the situation is incorrect. I'm happy for him to focus and post about other things, there's no rush for him to get back and respond to my points and I'm by no means wanting Pie to avoid posting in the thread.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Here's the relevant setup section (And Molla shouldn't be announcing his targets):

- Factional Pyrotechnics: Each night phase either you or your partner may take

one and only one of the the following actions:

Prime a target for ignition

by dousing them with gasoline.

Ignite all previously primed targets

by lighting them on fire and thus killing them.

[Soft-spoken]

VOTE: Gentlemen Bastards

[Gentlemen Bastards]

The fuck?

[Gold Saucer]

It wasn't meant to be a low blow, but it was a bit surprising. I think I've bern quite open all game where my head is at, and my last post was me talking about trying to get a read on quil ford by looking at his meta. That's where I'm at. I'm lost if it's not him and I'd like to nail that down and Im not sure how when it seems like he's just trolling now. And it's not just me but Bork has been incredibly open and town and awesome for not getting after me for being a busy slacker this game, so even if I'm not around as a constant, Bork is and he's put his heart into the game and if you can't see him trying to figure it out and grasping for anyone to engage with him so that he can figure it out, then I'm not sure what to say.

Yeah, Bork explained to me what I had wrong. I thought priming turned people into tree stumps. So never mind all that.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I don't think you've been as open as of late as to what I'm used to from you - there's snippets and small amounts from you or posted by bork from you and that's fine and understandable since I know you're quite busy IRL at the moment but I think you know there's a difference between when I'm 100% confident and would bet ANYTHING on someone being town and when I'm relatively sure they're town -- other than Borks prompting to Yuriko I've had no real issues with his play and I've like a lot of his angles of questioning, he's read very town but not 100% town, not in the same tier as my Soft and Sangres town reads, there's particular posts from you that I'd doubt would ever come from scum but not enough of them to make me not have the occasional slight doubts which is why I wanted a few more posts from you which I now have. I'll run through the numbers when it's not 3am but this game really is unloseable if we have enough agreed upon town-reads and locking in reads 100% is what's needed to do that, it's what we're working towards and it's why I wanted more from you.

[Gold Saucer]

What do you think of quilfords "that's cool I'll be the first confirmed town"?

[Gentlemen Bastards]

All up not a whole lot; initial instinct when reading it was that tonally I think it matches his town play more but I don't think it's a difficult thing to fake at all.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Alright I'm heading to bed. Would like your (Not Borks) updated read and reasoning on Pie in the meantime.

Also Soft again; the fuck?