Mini Normal 1692 – A Crack In Time? – Game Over

[Radja]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=61818
^scumgame

Yes, she is an emotional town player with a tendency to boil over into irrationality. That can be considered anti-town, but such a sentiment is really irrelevant in the big picture.

^Blue

[PointYBagelS]

Can you link to games where she gets wagoned and acts calmer as scum?

I've looked and to be honest i can't find many scum games at all. Those that exist are mostly theme games that I wouldn't expect to be quite as relevant.
I'm basing a lot of the assumption that she's calmer as scum on things that Ricastle has said here, and things that Rubicon said in NY183 when she got a bit of a wagon there.
Admittedly hearsay but Rubicon in particular seems to be very good at reading elusive.

Regardless of that, anyone can cherrypick a game to fit their narrative. Even with her town meta, she may occasionally react well to pressure. I encourage you to look yourself and see, don't just rely on what I'm saying.

It's also worth noting that she has replaced out of a lot of games. When looking through her history I found a ton and as far as I can see they were all town games. That might actually be the strongest point in her favor.

[BlueMoonRising]

It sounds to me like you are basing your meta read on her town game, and no one knows anything about her scum game. If you don't know her town AND scum meta, it's not a tell. Based on that, I would be inclined to go with the mathematical logic and lynch, unless someone has more conclusive meta.

[Radja]

The Elusive slot is Town.

No you are wrong, so is your "math", and so is your read on me.

That's a trifecta of wrongness

You clearly haven't looked at elusive's past games. Go do that and then come back.

The replace out is a massive, massive towntell for her

, and saying otherwise at this point is either willful ignorance of blatant scumminess.
Problem is, I actually think you're town, so I can't just vote you.

I agree with the thought that if someone has a greater chance than random of being scum, you should lynch them, but elusive has significantly less chance than random of being scum

VOTE: OhMyGodLife
Want to come out and play?

NY180 - Elusive gets pressured as town, starts getting very very angry to the point of being abusive. Is modkilled after a warning.
I'm sure I could find more if I kept looking. She was also modkilled (as town) in NY181 but it's less of a direct comparison. Certainly a case of her getting really angry as town though.

It's not the replacement specifically

, so much as the attitude behind it, that is very very much in line with her town meta.

NY180 - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60652
NY181 - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60825

-The replacing out is a massive towntell...
-It's not the replacement specifically...

This doesn't make sense.

[FakedBlogger]

It sounds to me like you are basing your meta read on her town game, and no one knows anything about her scum game. If you don't know her town AND scum meta, it's not a tell. Based on that, I would be inclined to go with the mathematical logic and lynch, unless someone has more conclusive meta.

So you truly believe that upon replacing out there's a 50-50 chance the slot is scum instead of the usual scum to town ratio derivate?
Sounds stupid to me tbh.

[Radja]

It sounds to me like you are basing your meta read on her town game, and no one knows anything about her scum game. If you don't know her town AND scum meta, it's not a tell. Based on that, I would be inclined to go with the mathematical logic and lynch, unless someone has more conclusive meta.

So you truly believe that upon replacing out there's a 50-50 chance the slot is scum instead of the usual scum to town ratio derivate?
Sounds stupid to me tbh.

Do you have any reads that you want to share? Other than that one post by Boon which you found scummy?

[FakedBlogger]

Not right now no. You'll have to be patient for a little while longer to get a whiff of my reads.

[PointYBagelS]

The Elusive slot is Town.

No you are wrong, so is your "math", and so is your read on me.

That's a trifecta of wrongness

You clearly haven't looked at elusive's past games. Go do that and then come back.

The replace out is a massive, massive towntell for her

, and saying otherwise at this point is either willful ignorance of blatant scumminess.
Problem is, I actually think you're town, so I can't just vote you.

I agree with the thought that if someone has a greater chance than random of being scum, you should lynch them, but elusive has significantly less chance than random of being scum

VOTE: OhMyGodLife
Want to come out and play?

NY180 - Elusive gets pressured as town, starts getting very very angry to the point of being abusive. Is modkilled after a warning.
I'm sure I could find more if I kept looking. She was also modkilled (as town) in NY181 but it's less of a direct comparison. Certainly a case of her getting really angry as town though.

It's not the replacement specifically

, so much as the attitude behind it, that is very very much in line with her town meta.

NY180 - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60652
NY181 - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60825

-The replacing out is a massive towntell...
-It's not the replacement specifically...

This doesn't make sense.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Because I see no contradiction and I don't think I was unclear. Her replacment falls under a broad range of potential actions that Elusive would absolutely do as town.

She may or may not have replaced out as a rage quit before. I don't know. Point is it, among other things, is something she'd do as town.

If you're going to keep grasping at straws I might have to start scumreading you.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

You forgot Ricastle's name and my gender as well.

No cause the last game I played with ricastle, I called him ricola. It was intentional. Not being able to see your gender on my phone without zooming in isn't a mistake either, its a combination of laziness and I don't really care what gender people are.

Now who's grasping at straws here? You are

To honestly think I'm scum for these things just proves you are scum or stupid.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

You clearly haven't looked at elusive's past games. Go do that and then come back

I looked at 1, and the play was different. If she has meta of replacing out as town and not scum she's getting dangerously close to the "trust tell" rule.

I'm ignoring the replace out, when I do that her play suggests she is scum. If everyone else ignores the replace out what do you think?

If you still say town I say bullshit.

I'm not changing my vote, so stop trying to convince me.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Regardless of that, anyone can cherrypick a game to fit their narrative. Even with her town meta,

Exactly, isn't that what you are doing?

[WoodyWoodpecker]

That might actually be the strongest point in her favor.

And it may actually be a violation of site rules...

[WoodyWoodpecker]

So you truly believe that upon replacing out there's a 50-50 chance the slot is scum instead of the usual scum to town ratio derivate?
Sounds stupid to me tbh.

What is the usual ratio? Where can I find this posted?

I'm not familiar with this site so this could be useful in the future. This issue just came up in another game as well so it would be good to stay informed.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar: Can I get an updated read on Zakk?

He loves Ricastle.

On balance I think scum. He has shut down since I accused him.

[Slandaar]

If wagons that replaced out were scum exactly 50% of the time(hypothetically), and players are scum exactly 33% of the time(hypothetically), I'm not mathetmatician but to me that means there's a greater than 50% chance of a player replacing out being scum. If you can use any methodology to point to someone being scum half the time or greater than you should lynch, in my opinion.

If wagons which replaced out were scum exactly 50% of the time the chance someone who replaced out is scum is 50%.

You are definitely no mathematician

[Slandaar]

You clearly haven't looked at elusive's past games. Go do that and then come back. The replace out is a massive, massive towntell for her, and saying otherwise at this point is either willful ignorance of blatant scumminess.
Problem is, I actually think you're town, so I can't just vote you.

I haven't looked at her games and don't intend to. I am also not going to be taking peoples word it is a massive, massive towntell for her. Am I willfully ignorant or blatantly scummy?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=61818
^scumgame

Yes, she is an emotional town player with a tendency to boil over into irrationality. That can be considered anti-town, but such a sentiment is really irrelevant in the big picture.

^Blue

After inspecting this game I have concluded it is irrelevant. There wasn't a wagon, there wasn't pressure.

-The replacing out is a massive towntell...
-It's not the replacement specifically...

This doesn't make sense.

Replacing out was talking about events surrounding it not just that she replaced out.

-----
OK I will actually do some scumhunting over the weekend. I haven't really done much this game.

[Radja]

The Elusive slot is Town.

No you are wrong, so is your "math", and so is your read on me.

That's a trifecta of wrongness

You clearly haven't looked at elusive's past games. Go do that and then come back.

The replace out is a massive, massive towntell for her

, and saying otherwise at this point is either willful ignorance of blatant scumminess.
Problem is, I actually think you're town, so I can't just vote you.

I agree with the thought that if someone has a greater chance than random of being scum, you should lynch them, but elusive has significantly less chance than random of being scum

VOTE: OhMyGodLife
Want to come out and play?

NY180 - Elusive gets pressured as town, starts getting very very angry to the point of being abusive. Is modkilled after a warning.
I'm sure I could find more if I kept looking. She was also modkilled (as town) in NY181 but it's less of a direct comparison. Certainly a case of her getting really angry as town though.

It's not the replacement specifically

, so much as the attitude behind it, that is very very much in line with her town meta.

NY180 - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60652
NY181 - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60825

-The replacing out is a massive towntell...
-It's not the replacement specifically...

This doesn't make sense.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Because I see no contradiction and I don't think I was unclear. Her replacment falls under a broad range of potential actions that Elusive would absolutely do as town.

She may or may not have replaced out as a rage quit before. I don't know. Point is it, among other things, is something she'd do as town.

If you're going to keep grasping at straws I might have to start scumreading you.

I'm grasping at straws because I think you're being unclear? right...
If you don't know she replaced out as a rage quit, how could you possibly know she would do as town?
If you're going to start scumreading me for questioning you, go ahead. You're not making it any better.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar - didn't know he was in this game. Cool. We'll probably have a face off later.

I'm town. Why would we 'probably have a face off' if you're town? It has never happened before.

Comes across like you

know

my alignment is opposite to yours.

Oh shit, I missed this.

Boon is Town.

Don't know either way about Slandaar.

I don't understand your reaction.

I assume you disagree with my assessment of the situation. Why?

Klingon I believe you forgot to answer my question here so I am just going to highlight it to ensure you remember the next time you post.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

OK so I looked at her games and saw she replaced out like 3 times. Doing this from my phone and didn't take notes but only once did she replace out where she was the largest wagon, she even self voted in that situation. The other the replacement happens during night phase and the other she said something about people not being able to handle the bitching or something. That one stands out to me because she was the one who started the bitching this game. She got flustered when I disproved her case and knew she was in a losing battle.

This replacement is nothing like her other replacements so anyone who claims this is town for her and they know her meta isnfull of shit. None of her games did she pick a fight with a player, lose the fight, and then replace out.

That's what happened here. So the "meta" discussion is over. She's not town for this replacement and deserves rope now.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

OK I will actually do some scumhunting over the weekend. I haven't really done much this game.

Yeah you really haven't and I feel like.you are purposely laying low. It's very suspicious

[FakedBlogger]

I've found that people who replace out when there are wagons on them are usually scum who have been caught but don't want to stay around for the lynch.

I'm not a fan of elusive's gameplay. In fact I think she's the antichrist but replacing out when wagoned as scum wouldn't be grotesque enough. Instead elusive has effectively set up a meta precedent for replacing out when wagoned as town so she can premeditatively replace out when wagoned as scum as much as she likes from now on.


I've read the thread chronologically and will proceed to read isos now or later.

Gonna vote Moon for his failed math and unsound reasons to vote for confirmed town (from my perspective)

VOTE: Moon

Also if you can give examples of people who replace out when wagoned as scum link it please, so I can blacklist them.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

And BTW I'm now done with this replacement stuff, so its pointless to continue arguing with me about it. I'm not changing my mind or my vote.

[FakedBlogger]

The reasons you've listed for voting elusive are too ballsy for scum to play like. Elusive doesn't have balls.

[Radja]

The reasons you've listed for voting elusive are too ballsy for scum to play like. Elusive doesn't have balls.

Townreading yourself is not going to help us, unfortunately.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Need multiple scum games to be able to properly determine if she's capable of that as scum. I don't think she's been scum multiple times so you can't accurately say such things