Mini 1683: <<11 PM>> [THE GAME IS OVER] [[BUT WHO WINS?!]]

[shos]

ANOTHER PAGETOP WOW


But actually this one is rather close to the other VC so I'll just skip it.

[Soren]

So you didn't read the first posts (which have the rules, by the way), and you didn't look into the game you were playing? And you didn't read your Role PM?

Lolkay.

I mean to be fair, I don't really read things too. I can see how he could forget about the setup. People's mind wanders some times and don't always remember the important things. So I can see it as a mistake from his part. But given that it could be a potential scum slip, I don't think that we can just ignore it. So I'm happy with your push on him so far.

Somehow I don't think any answer was going to appease you.

If players are going to lynch players for shotty reasoning like failing to read something then town is going to lose.

I think that you've said what you can so far to defend yourself about your slip. So I don't think any further push would get us anywhere with regards to this. Since you're apparent town to yourself, who are your scum reads?

[Soren]

I personally think that we should lynch Soren. BlueMoon you do not seem to understand the case on Soren. Soren did not buddy Kling directly. It was more the other way around. Soren mostly ignored Dragon, and never talked to him once. On the other hand Dragon voted for Soren early. Then later said that his opinions were not scummy and it was a matter of opinion on whether. Then later he put Soren on his list but put him in the null town pile. Then ignored his entire case on blue moon in favor of kling.

In summary Kling placed Soren in the spotlight by voting him, later defended him and then wrapped it up by placing him as null on his list because of lack of substance.

Instead it sounds like you want to lynch Soren for a case that does not exist.

Vote:Soren

I have spoken to dragon in 38, 159 and 235. Granted, it isn't much, but I have interacted with him.

148 dragon votes for me for which seems like he wants me to generate more content.

I was on his null list but he also comments that he thinks that I am slight scum.

I disagree that dragon wanted to lynch me for a case that didn't exist. His general read of me was that I'm not producing substance, so he voted for me rather early. When his vote on me wasn't accomplishing much and as the game moved on he also moved on to other targets. If anything, I think scum!dragon voted for me so as to try to avoid the bigger targets at that time. Just like how he voted for kilingon rather early based mostly on gut in 202 and coasted on this vote for the rest of the day without pushing kilngon much and letting other's do the pushing.

[dramonic]

I would like everyone to aknowledge having read Suzune's 659.

Yes. And?

You're using a single ball mentality when we know it's not single ball.

Hardly.
The fact I'm not looking at the same player as you doesn't mean that player can't be scum.
It means I think that player is less likely to be.

[Soren]

dram is suzune your

only

scum read?

You've been tunneling on her since day 1.

[dramonic]

Suzune is my only important scumread.

[Ozgin]

UNVOTE:

I suppose pushing someone because of what could potentially be a linguistic slip isn't a great idea. I guess that puts me back at null for BMR.

So if I look at Suzune and dram, I'm pretty much convinced that they're opposite in faction, so a lynch between the two is okay with me. I still like dram for scum though.

I like Wanderer_nl for lean-town, and I like TTH for null/lean-town so far also.

RedCoyote is null for me, haven't seen much of him lately.

Soren I can see being scum, or just fairly inactive scum. Very lurky, not a whole lot of

good

content. I don't care much for his posts, but at least he's kinda trying now. I'd call him scumlean.

If I'm missing anyone, they haven't posted enough recently or interacted with me recently for me to remember them, and I don't like that.

Anyways, I'm gonna take my business back to VOTE: dramonic. I still feel confident that dramonic is plausible scum.

[Wanderer-nl]

Dramonic: I'm gonna need some reads from you. More than just Suzune please.

[shos]

RedCoyote and E_Lou_Sive have been prodded.
Also, take note that the VC on page 27 has been updated.

[Suzune]

I believe I should have a vote on Soren. I believe that puts it at L-1 then.

[Wanderer-nl]

I believe I should have a vote on Soren. I believe that puts it at L-1 then.

No I unvoted so he should be at L-2 now.

[RedCoyote]

He's also leaning really hard on cookie cutter theory to justify the dram vote.

I don't get much from your first point about easing off of Papi as I think newer players tend to make more of a big deal about RVS and whatever "propriety" they see surrounding that regardless of alignment. That said, I am liking this second point though. Especially your use of the term "cookie cutter". That's very fitting in this situation, and it does strike me as scummy in its artificiality. Further, the comment he made about "after checking to make sure it wasn't L1" did not give me very good vibes either.

I also agree that 186 is a weak puddle of goo.

ELS's 483 doesn't really strike me as bad, but TTH is right in the sense that he never really followed through. Further, there is a pattern in these three posts, and TTH did well to choose them and frame them as these two players looking for a "sweet spot" in between aggression and passivity.

UNVOTE: Soren; VOTE: E_Lou_Sive

I could go for Soren and ELS being our last two scum here, yes.

[dramonic]

Dramonic: I'm gonna need some reads from you. More than just Suzune please.

And im gonna need you to give me a good reason why i should ignore the huge scumclaim in front of me and look elsewhere when we could just lynch scum and give ourselves another night with no town corpses.

[dramonic]

Tip: try asking rc to do it for you. Maybe tth

[E_Lou_Sive]

Sorry I haven't been posting much. Now that the holiday weekend is over I can get back to normal. That said, UNVOTE: BlueMoonRising since I feel there are better places to put my vote at this point. I'm going to stick with my original gut and VOTE: dramonic because the circumstances under which he voted Suzune the first time (84) are just too suspicious for me to ignore, regardless of whether Suzune is scum or not. I wouldn't be opposed to a BMR or Ozgin lynch, though.

[Ozgin]

E_Lou_Sive: Why wouldn't you be opposed to an Ozgin lynch, exactly?

Call me butthurt, but I dislike the randomness of throwing my name in your "would lynch" pile.

[Wanderer-nl]

Dramonic: I'm gonna need some reads from you. More than just Suzune please.

And im gonna need you to give me a good reason why i should ignore the huge scumclaim in front of me and look elsewhere when we could just lynch scum and give ourselves another night with no town corpses.

You don't have to ignore that I just want more from you.

[Soren]

Suzune is my only important scumread.

Does this imply that you have a less important scum read? If so, who is that?

[Wanderer-nl]

Soren: you've had your attention on Dram all day so far, care to share your other reads as well please?

[E_Lou_Sive]

E_Lou_Sive: Why wouldn't you be opposed to an Ozgin lynch, exactly?

Call me butthurt, but I dislike the randomness of throwing my name in your "would lynch" pile.

I understand where you're coming from with this. I'd feel the same way if it were my name being thrown randomly into a "would lynch" pile. The reasons I'm suspicious of you are basically because I see you as a good candidate to be Dragon's scumbuddy. 124 and 153 come across as backpedaling, and you and Dragon don't interact or even mention each other except for two sentences (in 191 and 378) which don't come across as organic when read together. From the beginning of day 2 up until your last few posts you've been focused on Kling's ISO and on determining who her buddy is (which I think Dragon's buddy would try to do) and you were mostly focused on Kling herself on day 1. In summary, it's not necessarily a case I feel comfortable pushing hard, and it's more of a situation where I wouldn't be opposed to an Ozgin lynch instead of heavily trying to support it. Thus, I'm currently voting dram instead since I see the case against him as being stronger.

[dramonic]

Dramonic: I'm gonna need some reads from you. More than just Suzune please.

And im gonna need you to give me a good reason why i should ignore the huge scumclaim in front of me and look elsewhere when we could just lynch scum and give ourselves another night with no town corpses.

You don't have to ignore that I just want more from you.

And I want a vote on Suzune from you.
But we can't have everything we want.

Suzune is my only important scumread.

Does this imply that you have a less important scum read? If so, who is that?

You don't need to know.

[RedCoyote]

Not much for me to add here.

Strangely, ELS didn't address TTH at all.

Soren is still ignoring the main things we're asking of him.

Either lynch is a good one.

[Ozgin]

E_Lou_Sive: Why wouldn't you be opposed to an Ozgin lynch, exactly?

Call me butthurt, but I dislike the randomness of throwing my name in your "would lynch" pile.

I understand where you're coming from with this. I'd feel the same way if it were my name being thrown randomly into a "would lynch" pile. The reasons I'm suspicious of you are basically because I see you as a good candidate to be Dragon's scumbuddy. 124 and 153 come across as backpedaling, and you and Dragon don't interact or even mention each other except for two sentences (in 191 and 378) which don't come across as organic when read together. From the beginning of day 2 up until your last few posts you've been focused on Kling's ISO and on determining who her buddy is (which I think Dragon's buddy would try to do) and you were mostly focused on Kling herself on day 1. In summary, it's not necessarily a case I feel comfortable pushing hard, and it's more of a situation where I wouldn't be opposed to an Ozgin lynch instead of heavily trying to support it. Thus, I'm currently voting dram instead since I see the case against him as being stronger.

Fair enough. I'm not gonna waste time by trying to defend myself when I'm not being attacked.

I know I didn't interact with dragon at all though, but that's because my blinders have been on this whole game (like I said). I'm not ashamed of that though, it got scum. It worked. That's literally all I care about. Now, if dramonic is lynched here and flips town, I don't even know what I'll do.

[E_Lou_Sive]

Not much for me to add here.

Strangely, ELS didn't address TTH at all.

Soren is still ignoring the main things we're asking of him.

Either lynch is a good one.

I saw what TTH said, and I honestly don't have much to say about it.

*

Post 186: He's obviously keeping up with the thread since he's commenting on recent things (also see: Post 122 and the comment on Soren), but the dram read is still based on the same stale, re-hashed "no lynch" thing.

After reading 186 and 122, Simple Plan's dram read seems to me to be based on the buddying between dram and Red and doesn't seem to have much to do with why he voted dram in 92. ASP also said in 186 that he'd be willing to vote Red for similar reasons to why he was voting for dram.

*

Post 483 from ELS makes a show of bringing up dragonspawn, but nothing comes of that. The commentary on "dram vs Ozgin" doesn't really do much for me since there's a ton of details that never get put into a big picture. :S

The results of my reading into what I mentioned in 483 are contained within the first point of my 487. Admittedly, I never directly referenced the dragonspawn quote again but that's because I read nothing into it upon further reading.

I'd be happy to respond to anything else you might want me to respond to, but TTH's accusations don't really bother me.

[shos]

BlueMoonRising has been prodded.