Saki Achiga-hen episode of side-A Mafia [OK]

[pieguyn]

votecount 1.11

Varsoon (3) - Kuro Matsumi, InflatablePie, Elbirn
Bins (3) - Marquis, Gin and Sonic, Chandra Nalaar

lufan131 (2) - Cabd, singersigner
Kuro Matsumi (2) - Voidedmafia, Varsoon
Benjamin Applebaum (2) - ZZZX, Bitmap
Nachomamma8 (2) - Xtoxm, Bins
Cabd (2) - Profgessor Emotion, lufan131
Xtoxm (1) - farside22
Marquis (1) - Benjamin Applebaum

Not voting (2) - Nachomamma8, pidgey

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is July 21, 13:00 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2015-07-21 13:00:00).

[singersigner]

What's absurd about it? You still haven't addressed the issues, yet you're calling me defense about...what? The fact that I called you out on not actually scumhunting? If that's defensive then I WILL attack your playstyle because despite your alignment, it's really backwards. You've now diverted the fault onto me when you're the one proving you're not reading, and proving that you're not even trying to find the intent behind the posts. You admitted that I addressed people who "probably haven't checked the thread" yet you hate my list when it was objectively a list of people who literally hadn't posted yet? (and again, giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they'd even try to catch up instead of coast)

Geez, you can't even call me scum or town for this engagement. You just dismiss me as "absurd" because you're avoiding addressing the actual argument here (so you can't use the excuse that I haven't specified it, it's the fact that you're not reading, you're just post=not scumhunting).

What issues? I don't see any issues I have right now? That I haven't made a catchup post? That I'm not "scum hunting" because I need to interact with people to do so? I don't feel called out at all, actually, and I'm not arguing about that at all. None of my arguments have come as a defensive to a "You're not scumhunting."

I hate the fact you needed to make a list. Man, I can't believe I'm saying "hate" so early on in the damn game. I don't like the fact you felt the need to just copy paste some names for no reason at all.

No, you're right, I can't call you scum or town for this engagement. Has it occurred to you that I don't want to? I think you're making no sense and being downright ridiculous, actually. I think that's off, yeah, but again, I just got into the game. I'm saying that post of yours bugged me and you just completely blew it out of proportion. I'm a pretty calm player, it takes something "absurd" to make me react like this.

How did I blow it out of proportion? I called your response to it like it was: empty and unnecessary. This is now the second (maybe third) time you've used "just getting into the game" as an excuse, and you're self-proclaimed as "not scum hunting because [you] need to interact with people to do so" yet refusing to give a read on me based on what...our

not

interaction?

The problem I have is that while you've been catching up, you felt the need to fixate on ONE thing you didn't like about what I had done, simply because you yourself wouldn't have done it. You haven't been able to articulate why you don't like it past the fact that it looks like I'm posting for the sake of posting, when if you were catching up and taking the time to read, you'd realize that I have, in fact! done more than just "make a list." The fixation is what looks like you're not bothering to read anything else I have to say, or any other interactions people have been having past throwing shade on something pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It really just looks like you were looking for your name, felt called out, ignored all reason as to why I might've done so, again, ignoring any intent I had in making that post, and then immediately went on the offensive about it to protect yourself.

What was the point in publicly posting something if not to submit it to scrutiny? I was asking you to look deeper into my posts, my motivations, my intent, but instead you fixated on this one little thing and saying

I'm

blowing it out of proportion, when you were the one who made the drive-by comment that you weren't prepared to back up.

[Bins]

I guess everyone is reading it differently.

Notty and you, as prime 3rd party examples.

like I wasn't seeing from her "BINS YOURE SCUM CAUSE YOU ARENT POSTING GOOD" (until she you know, clarified)
I WAS SEEING "bins you're k but your posts are useless and you aren't scum hunting."

if that makes sense?!

[singersigner]

Nobody else is going to comment on Lufan doing nothing more than blind sheeping mara's emotional hissy fit then proceeding to burn any sense of credibility by commenting on literally nothing else in the game?

Really?

I mean hell I'm phoneposting from work but even I can take the time to point it out.\



Also Bins, fwiw I got a non-aggressive message from singer's initial posts, i think you two are both seeing aggression that isn't really there in each other's initial posts. Either way, it's now tainting your reads on each other with raw emotion, and it makes it harder for others to attempt to read the both of you. If we could take a curbing of it form both sides and look and talk elsewhere for a while, I'd really appreciate it.

VOTE: Cabd
You seem different than the Cabd I've played with before, and it feels more like you're trying to hide something.

You remind me of someone. Stop it.

[Bins]

you felt the need to fixate on ONE thing you didn't like about what I had done

I WASN'T TRYING TO FIXATE

You sort of spun this shit off of it with a bunch of weird questions attacking me that I thought wasn't stemming from a scum read because I had literally made no posts before then.

[Cabd]

I sit corrected, singer. Although I'm not sure who you refer to in that post.

I mean it reminds me of that one guy burn someodd numbers but I don't think he was even still playing when I semi retired months ago.

[Bins]

I feel like we're getting upset at each other for literally the same reasons.

> We specified about something we didn't like each other, felt like we were being attacked because "you aren't looking at the whole picture here so you aren't making any sense at all" and now we're making long ass posts trying to explain each other but in the end we're BOTH defensive and we're BOTH freaking out.

it was things like this:

Ok well my first point on Bins is proven that she has nothing to say worth listening to.

I didn't feel like you were scumreading me. I didn't even think it could of been a "bins is scum, she's not scum reading."
i thought it was a "bins is ok but she's still useless"

[singersigner]

You made one post quoting me. I asked you if that's all you had to say so far.
You made more posts within my preview edit. It was a lot of fluff posting so I assumed the answer to the aforementioned question was "yes."
You made a deflective question in response to my original "is that all you have to say" and I pointed it out.
You made a baseless accusation of me pretending to look like I was doing something.
Etc.
Etc.

Do you see how this got started? I didn't originally have a scumread on you, and was in fact trying to figure out your alignment by asking you questions to garner your motivation, which then turned into me thinking you were just whimsically throwing out posts to do the exact thing you tried to accuse me of (posting to look busy), except in this case I have proof to back it up (because I've actually been posting content) and you could never provide any to the contrary (because there wasn't, you just picked out one post of the many I've made), which led me to believe you were just full of shit (to be quite frank).

[Bins]

You made one post quoting me. I asked you if that's all you had to say so far.
You made more posts within my preview edit. It was a lot of fluff posting so I assumed the answer to the aforementioned question was "yes."
You made a deflective question in response to my original "is that all you have to say" and I pointed it out.
You made a baseless accusation of me pretending to look like I was doing something.
Etc.
Etc.

I'm going to say it one last time.

I had literally got in the game.

[Bins]

I was not expecting to get scumread based on not doing anything.

Because I had made only a handful of posts.

Pie is right, we should stop this, so you can get a chance to see me get the chance to ACTUALLY post something of substance.

[Bins]

fwiw, I've only made catchup posts as scum. I've stopped all together now. I'm just not that kind of player.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I've seen attacks a million times as aggressive as this get met with so, so much less random-ass third party shouting down.

And if you're expecting me not to be antagonistic, you're not going to like me.

[singersigner]

To be honest, you seemed more concerned with defending yourself despite claiming to not feel defensive, than actually providing the content I said was lacking. Another big turn in why I felt you weren't posting with town-motivation.

But despite all of that, I'm more interested in Marquis' reaction right now than yours. I can admit you felt cornered at this point, but I still hope can you find a way to comment on the rest of the game as you catch up.

[Bins]

I've seen attacks a million times as aggressive as this get met with so, so much less random-ass third party shouting down.

And if you're expecting me not to be antagonistic, you're not going to like me.

I do like you. So that's ok.

I like playing in a positive environment full of happy people that get along.

But I'm basically saying that you're not going to get a read out of me by doing that so I suggest stopping. All you're going to do is piss a few people off and make this game more cluttered.

[Nachomamma8]

I find this town as well. It's not my cup of tea as logic goes, but I like it. Partially for that reason.

Your town case on Cabd consists of a bunch of things that aren't town tells; I assume you just want to read him as town really really badly?

I'm tempted to go "liar liar pants on fire" but whatever. I'm hoping you're gonna explain this.


Also Re: mara stuff; the very fact she's aware of it (enough to fault me for NOT applying it to her?!?) and it's been a year since I did data collection about her is good enough reason to invalidate it as a method of reading her; especially since I don't intend to do any NEW meta gathering this game.

I had no intentions of explaining that
line. What do you need clarified?

She expects you to be able to read her, regardless of method. This isn't a ridiculous expectation.

Vote: Varsoon

I am current.

[singersigner]

I sit corrected, singer. Although I'm not sure who you refer to in that post.

I mean it reminds me of that one guy burn someodd numbers but I don't think he was even still playing when I semi retired months ago.

Notty knows and that's about it. It's a bad thing for either alignment, I'll tell you that.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Your town case on Cabd consists of a bunch of things that aren't town tells; I assume you just want to read him as town really really badly?

It's less a towncase than an attempt to explain a gut read

[Bins]

To be honest, you seemed more concerned with defending yourself despite claiming to not feel defensive, than actually providing the content I said was lacking. Another big turn in why I felt you weren't posting with town-motivation.

But despite all of that, I'm more interested in Marquis' reaction right now than yours. I can admit you felt cornered at this point, but I still hope can you find a way to comment on the rest of the game as you catch up.

And that's the thing, I will comment on the game. But I don't do it right away.

It's just. I was defensive. I'll admit that. But when I said I wasn't "defensive" on, I meant not in a "I'm not scum so stop!" sort of way. It gets personal really fast with me sometimes and I don't know why. Sometimes I don't give a shit what people say, but sometimes I feel like things are undeserved. And it I guess it made it 1000x worse because I didn't understand where you were coming from at all, because I was misunderstanding the fact you were "reading me".

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: Varsoon

Back to this!

[singersigner]

I find this town as well. It's not my cup of tea as logic goes, but I like it. Partially for that reason.

Your town case on Cabd consists of a bunch of things that aren't town tells; I assume you just want to read him as town really really badly?

Does this mean you have a townread on Chandra?

Where've you been?? I joined this game partially because you were in it!

[Varsoon]

Why are you voting for me again, Singer?
I don't want to call your vote a sheep of Nacho's, but it strikes me that way.
What'd you get out of your huge back and forth these last few pages?

[Cabd]

Mara, this is my reach out post. I'm only willing to give you one before I write you off as too fired up to listen for now.

The reason I am not pushing you or varsoon is because my reason for suspecting the either of you primarily hinges on Lufan. Would you, say you were outed cop with a guilty, EVER think of pushing or voting for somebody you thought was scum with your guilty before the guilty party itself? No? Then you should see why I'm pushing lufan and not you or varsoon. That said, lufan's second post most likely makes it varsoon-lufan FMPOV; if it's either of you two. Lufan lynch will sort that out; the czase on the either of you is a TON weaker than the case on him. Either way, you need to stop using your emotional state to interact with me. Take a few deep breaths, relax, and think about the big picture here.

Look at Lufan's second post. Realize he's essentially looked at the entire thread; and then chose to do nothing but +1 your vote on me in an attempt to create a counter-wagon and undercut my credibility, while gaining cred with you.

I don't have the largest voice in this game, or even in the top three, I'd argue. I cannot really afford to push multiple people at a time and still keep interest with several emotional slap-fights going on that are much louder; people simply won't hear me out much.

[singersigner]

I feel like I'm starting to get to a snarky point when my default response becomes "are you even reading?"

But despite all of that,

I'm more interested in Marquis' reaction right now than yours.

I can admit you felt cornered at this point, but I still hope can you find a way to comment on the rest of the game as you catch up.

Also, I'm voting for you because you went oddly silent after I backed off of you and it felt strange. Nacho's vote reminded me it felt strange so I guess in a way I am sheeping but like...are people just throwing out buzzwords these days? This is the second time someone's called me sheeping despite being the first to even vote you and then coming back to it when I was dissatisfied with not voting you, and with Lufan, arguing the point then doing my own research and coming to my own conclusion. What the fuck do you guys think sheeping is nowadays?

[Chandra Nalaar]

pls stop unflipped associative hunting

[Voidedmafia]

Reasoning? I didn't give any reasoning.

I was referring to Kuro's post.

Do you not see the similarities between cabds reason for scum-reading lufan and his own play so far?

Why is this supposed similarity important?

1. Regarding kuro. She kept harping on varsoon over the policy lynch thing, and I would agree with her statements over varsoons. Varsoon didnt quite answer her question. The fact that she didn't back off her varsoon read despite the pressure against her and her wagon is townie imo. Also considering that during my read through I felt scum pings from varsoon, seeing kuro against him reinforced a town read on her. As for the post I quoted of hers, I quoted it for a reason. I find her confidence townie; I like that tongue in check, cocksure attitude, and frankly I expect scum to be more milquetoast.

Also also read her more recent posts; they're good.

2. Of course I don't have a post restriction, I said as much when I claimed it. I mean. What? Oh yeah post restriction, I have a post restriction. Yes.

Varsoon did answer he question quite clearly. I mean, what part of " coupled with the ways in which players joined without much input had me leaning that the wagon was likely a quick RVS wagon and may have some members who are voting it for policy reasons" didn't answer Kuro's question? The problem is that she's saying one thing but the facts say something different. And I find it hard to look town by harping on a question that was already answered.

What scum pings from Varsoon?

I can be tongue-in-cheek and cocksure when I've been scum. That's not really a point in her favor, at least by itself.

No they aren't. She doesn't respond well to Chandra, for one thing. Also, her attempt to re-state her "case" on Varsoon didn't do anything beyond showing her denial and discrediting his analysis.

To answer your question. I have played 2 games with lufan. This is what lufan does. Lufan does not play mafia. Lufan observes mafia, and fluff posts just enough to avoid prods. If he has a role, he pays just enough attention to submit a night action, maybe.

.......

...Hoo, boy, this ain't gonna be fun.

Post 311 is better, although I don't see why an intent to change playstyles warrants a townread (and why Varsoon and Cabd, who say as much as well, either get scumread or not mentioned at all). Also don't think Kuro's responses are good, but I suppose some measure of respect can be found in sticking to your guns.

I like Bins more in his argument with Singer.

The three different spoilers are different phases of my push/interaction with him that has already happened this far I feel like it's pretty important to note that in the first spoiler, I've already started to push him, but he hasn't gotten involved with the game at all. He hasn't interacted with people, and just put up his disclaimers (which is something I could have also very, very easily done but it does absolutely nothing) and is just overall lack luster. It's also pretty interesting that he did notice that there was stuff lufan could have commented on from the first page stuff he failed to comment on himself and that in the second spoiler, I've already had been suggesting his lynch. He says himself that I'm "pushing his mislynch" which suggests that he feels like I'm not going to back off on this.

In the second spoiler he's become more active, and more analytical of game-state which is what I wanted from the beginning and I was pretty content with itwhich lead to my unvote in the third spoiler, hoping he would keep the momentum up but I feel like he's stopped analyzing players. If he actually thinks I'm scum with Lufan, there's no reason for him to not push me. There is no reason for him to not try and find scum-intent in my post. I don't feel like he's really looking into varsoon, either who is apparently his other pick for scum with lufan.

Okay, this makes more sense.

Do you think people aren't looking into Varsoon because of what Kuro has already said? (This may be a late question, but still)