Mini 1694 -- Zodiac Mafia II (Game Over)

[Tammy]

Tammy, unfortunately because of your lack of content or thoughts on other players and your fixation on either me or nacho - I'm not motivated. Maybe its because you seem smug or condescending, like I possibly couldn't know better and you're here to school me.

Massive's first catch up post was decent. Why do I give nacho a pass? Idk, many reasons some of which I have shared and others that I don't feel the need too.

I always wait to see what players will say about the people doing the same exact thing they find suspicious in another player. Will they say something or will they barrel right through without commenting and therefore be weird?

I have thoughts and content out there on other players.

I don't feel smug or condescending at all. But you are not digging. You say my dance with nacho is scummy yet you refuse to answer why it is scummy. You refuse to answer what your read is there. And you haven't even bothered to figure out why I'm voting him.

(For the record, you started this thing with me. It's fine, it helped me to get an early town read on you, but there is one tiny thing I have a concern about you on and I'm holding on to it because it depends on one thing.)

You are not practicing what you preach though btw.

[Tammy]

Tammy, do you normally blind-vote people with the intention of wondering why no one asks you about it?

Not often, no, I don't know.

And that's not what this is at all.

Elusive posted an inaccurate meta read on Nacho. She also claimed that I'm still acting scummy and that my dance with nacho is scummy. I would expect that if she was really interested in reading me and that she thought I was scummy and had made a bad vote that was scummy that she'd pounce on it or that she'd ask me about it.

She can't possibly know why I'm voting him, so those declarations strike me as off when she's not trying to figure out why.

[Aronis]

Aronis - Do you prefer scum or town?

Well roles are random, so it doesn't matter! In Greater Idea, UPicks, etc. I've started going with town. I tend to have better success as scum, but pretty much everyone does. So I'll say town, bc answering anything other than that would be foolish.

I remembered your activity in signs and void as being less than it actually was. I thought there was a discussion about how you're easy mislynch bait because of your lack of activity, which would make your activity here a little concerning. If you preferred playing scum and lurked as town, then your activity here would be worrying, but you were more active than I remember you being, and that was a large. I'll need to go back to that game and look at the discussion about you tonight to make sure I'm not remembering things wrong.

Activity is based more on how much time I have to play Mafia and how many games I'm in, than alignment. Right now it's summer(so no school) and this is the only game I'm in, so I'm going to post alot. Plus in that game I fell really far behind and lost interest.

[elusive]

I think you fail to realize that I don't really care? Like you stating you have a town read on me except one tiny thing? I'm not here to jump hoops for you. You reaction to my FOSing was all I needed from you, at this point you've been put in the "Wait and see" pile. I'm not sure what you're expecting here since I don't see any relevant questions other than, "Ask me why I voted nacho," when I've seen that song and dance already and don't quite care since nacho isn't here to respond. If we're putting your words to the fire then I probably can't use what meta I have of him to read him either because you know better? So yeah, meh.

I've prodded massive as I wanted to get a sense of him as KayP's replace was pinging me as off as well due to her town reads being highly without reasoning or reading one person as town for the same reason to read another player as scum. Hopefully massive keeps posting.

I played a game with Aronis where he was town and lurked around so he's pinging my radar for being like an over eager puppy. If he's scum then that ups the possibility of lane being scum because they seem to have echoed\worked off each other a bit more then normal.

Ricastle is active in other games and has shown a never before seen attitude in this game so I don't know what to make of him. Should I vote him and see him lynched (probably this is what is going to happen) or ?

If Ricastle flips town then {thoughts}? If Ricastle flips scum then {thoughts}...

[elusive]

Tammy, do you normally blind-vote people with the intention of wondering why no one asks you about it?

Not often, no, I don't know.

And that's not what this is at all.

Elusive posted an inaccurate meta read on Nacho. She also claimed that I'm still acting scummy and that my dance with nacho is scummy. I would expect that if she was really interested in reading me and that she thought I was scummy and had made a bad vote that was scummy that she'd pounce on it or that she'd ask me about it.

She can't possibly know why I'm voting him, so those declarations strike me as off when she's not trying to figure out why.

Guess what, I think you're scummy and I think nacho is townish. Boo hoo, tragedy.

According to you my meta is wrong, according to me I'm right. I also find you focusing on a player who has barely posted and is in absentia (and ignoring others barely posting) to add to the scumminess.

[Tammy]

One game is not a good enough game to get a meta read on. You have no idea underlying circumstances or why.

I'm not voting Nacho for barely posting, although I am slightly concerned about that. I am voting him because when he did pop back in to post "Hi Tammy!" He didn't actually answer the question I asked him in Post 451 when it should be really easy for him to answer that. I'm not concerned that his original questions to me about why I was letting him get away with stuff was him kinda taunting me because if he is scum this game it would be the first time in a couple years at least that I started off with an incorrect town read on him. I mean I've sometimes had no big problems with him at the start when he's scum, but I can't remember the last time I started off with a town read on him when he was scum and haven't been getting after him. Therefore, if he was scum and I was town reading him, I think he would find it funny so he might kinda poke at me a little bit and find it funny that I'm wrong. He would then also want to keep up appearances to show some early paranoia of me just giving him an easy town read because several times when I've been scum and he's been town, I've found easy reasons to call him town, so that would be a perfect avenue for a scum him to go with me to do what I would expect from him.

[elusive]

I'm an easy player to wagon, I mean seriously easy due to high emotional stakes and lack of a filter and there was no need for him as scum to pop in an derail my wagon. Scum have added fuel to the (bon)fire of my wagon but not derailed it so for me he is in the town lean for now based on that.

THere is nothing I can say about players who are actively lurking other then they make the game hard. I'd prefer a player to go batshit crazy and bitch at me but be active then to actively lurky. Obviously the majority seems to prefer the opposite.

[Ricastle]

I just realised why my interest in this game is so low: It's a total pissing contest. Nothing exhilarating, just some random people passively pissing about.

Oh, and my top 2 scumreads evacuating the building probably has something to do with it as well. Again, can somebody please give me a single reason as to why MS is town? Other than MS himself?

[Tammy]

Your meta on him is wrong.

Your leaning read on him might be right.

I could be wrong. I want to be wrong. It's super rare that Nacho and I are town together. I thought this was one of those times; I'm not so sure any more.

[Tammy]

I'm an easy player to wagon, I mean seriously easy due to high emotional stakes and lack of a filter and there was no need for him as scum to pop in an derail my wagon. Scum have added fuel to the (bon)fire of my wagon but not derailed it so for me he is in the town lean for now based on that.

THere is nothing I can say about players who are actively lurking other then they make the game hard. I'd prefer a player to go batshit crazy and bitch at me but be active then to actively lurky. Obviously the majority seems to prefer the opposite.

He'd be likely to do that as scum too. If he wasn't, it would have factored into my read on him.

~~~

I need to head out to my thing, but when I come back I'll look through a few things.

I do know I don't feel great about the ricastle wagon, but I can't really explain why.

[elusive]

There was only one game, with fferyllt where I read like ten games she was in because she was wily and correctly meta read her as scum based on language use (in my wiki, newbie games probably my favorite game of all time on here). However, most of the time I only need a few (3-4) games to figure out "voice." I may be wrong about his meta but I feel good about my read on nacho until further notice.

I've also stated who I don't feel good about: Ricastle (can you link to your most recent completed scum games because that last post only added to your scumminess), lane and Aronis for echoing each other\lane for switching from me to nacho after he defended my slot and aronis for being hyperactive and also scumreading me without any basis (or even reference to lets say the last mafia game we were in together). Marquis for lurking.

[Tammy]

Oh but that makes me feel better about the one tiny thing that I thought might point to you as scum. And actually I just realized how stupid my stray thought was but it depended on you and nacho being scum together, which actually doesn't make any sense.

[Nachomamma8]

Makes her the towniest in the game? That's crazy cause I was thinking convictions to shit cases weren't very townie. Scum trying to push through a crap case more likely. But your explanation could not have possibly been any better

Conviction is town in general because it shows that a person believes in what they're writing. If they believe what they're writing, they are town. I fail to see how elusive's cases are so wrong and misguided that there is no way that they can be coming from town, which is the thing you're trying to argue.

[Nachomamma8]

I was thinking about this while out for a walk and I'm wondering about your expectations from me now. The game started last Tuesday. I know that for the majority of this game so far that you've been busy, so I'm not sure what you expected me to do? And I also don't know why you expected me to look at the elusive interaction before I had a chance to do so when I said that I would today. What am I letting you get away with when you haven't had much of a chance to be around in the first place?

I don't really have specific expectations of what I expect you to do or how I expect you to respond to things. In general, I expect you to prod at me more than other people would, but it makes sense for you to be more lenient on lurking than other people would be.

I had reasonable expectations (why did I expect you to look at the elusive interaction earlier when you said you didn't have time) because I wasn't aware you didn't have time and were getting to them later.

[Nachomamma8]

Holy shit we have a day left.

Vote: Metal Sonic

[Ricastle]

Unfortunately, I only have one completed scumgame on this site, and it's particularly off-the-wall. Here it is anyway.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=62222

[Nachomamma8]

I don't like how much nacho isn't doing, and the things he had done seem to just stir confusion... things nacho has said, after already playing this exact type of game

What do you think my motivation as scum is for doing these things? Do you picture me as a Johnny Chaosseed, spreading seeds of chaos everywhere I go so the town eats itself alive?

Because that picture, while entertaining, also seems dumb as hell.

[Aronis]

There was only one game, with fferyllt where I read like ten games she was in because she was wily and correctly meta read her as scum based on language use (in my wiki, newbie games probably my favorite game of all time on here). However, most of the time I only need a few (3-4) games to figure out "voice." I may be wrong about his meta but I feel good about my read on nacho until further notice.

I've also stated who I don't feel good about: Ricastle (can you link to your most recent completed scum games because that last post only added to your scumminess), lane and Aronis for echoing each other\lane for switching from me to nacho after he defended my slot and aronis for being hyperactive and also scumreading me without any basis (or even reference to lets say the last mafia game we were in together). Marquis for lurking.

I'm not big on meta and you were an innocent child that got suicide bombed day 1, so I don't really consider that a great game to use as meta even if I was big on it.

[Nachomamma8]

PROD

DODGE

(Whatcha gonna say bout that?)

(That you are using a loophole to avoid following the activity rules and should be modkilled?)

I was expecting Nacho to say something about it, but he didn't even come in here.

VOTE: nachomamma

Why is that scummy of me?

[Nachomamma8]

I am voting him because when he did pop back in to post "Hi Tammy!" He didn't actually answer the question I asked him in Post 451 when it should be really easy for him to answer that.

It should be really easy for me to answer my expectations on how you approach the game and interacting with me even though the way we interact is changing based on Forest Fire and Westeros?

You and I have different thoughts on what an easy question is :/

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not concerned that his original questions to me about why I was letting him get away with stuff was him kinda taunting me because if he is scum this game it would be the first time in a couple years at least that I started off with an incorrect town read on him. I mean I've sometimes had no big problems with him at the start when he's scum, but I can't remember the last time I started off with a town read on him when he was scum and haven't been getting after him. Therefore, if he was scum and I was town reading him, I think he would find it funny so he might kinda poke at me a little bit and find it funny that I'm wrong. He would then also want to keep up appearances to show some early paranoia of me just giving him an easy town read because several times when I've been scum and he's been town, I've found easy reasons to call him town, so that would be a perfect avenue for a scum him to go with me to do what I would expect from him.

1) I don't taunt people about incorrect reads on me as scum, post game or during. I could possibly taunt you about an incorrect read post game, but not during because that's dumb.

2) If I was looking to "keep up appearances", I wouldn't fake paranoia on you. You tend to reanalyze my slot whenever I so much as glance your way, so faking paranoia is more a risk and less of a natural move like you're making it out to be.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd vote the very small pool of {Mainez, Metal Sonic, Aronis} today. I don't really have scumreads anywhere else.

[Aronis]

Let's lynch Mainez then!

VOTE: Mainez

[Tammy]

UNVOTE:

I liked that string of posts actually.

Heading out to my thing, do stuff in a bit.

[farside22]

UNVOTE:

I liked that string of posts actually.

Heading out to my thing, do stuff in a bit.

Who is this in regards to?

Massive: I disagree with you about lane. Would lynch ric